Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[shangrila]

...although we should totally trade KAT

(ducks)

[winforlose]

Who think we COULDN’T have beat OKC by the same 30 points with Sabonis instead of towns?

Oh yeah.. but less whining and more bbiq.

While I don't necessarily want to start the KAT Trade Train again, I'll agree that the whining is really, REALLY getting old

Please name 3 elite NBA players who don’t whine? Also, can you guys honestly say KAT doesn’t have a point. On both the hooking call tonight and the fourth foul (also offensive,) the defender initiated contact that would have sent Embiid or Jokic to the line. KAT may have committed fouls afterward, but the situation only arises because KAT gets very few whistle relative to the amount of contact he receives.

[Norseman79]

Who think we COULDN’T have beat OKC by the same 30 points with Sabonis instead of towns?

Oh yeah.. but less whining and more bbiq.

While I don't necessarily want to start the KAT Trade Train again, I'll agree that the whining is really, REALLY getting old

Please name 3 elite NBA players who don’t whine? Also, can you guys honestly say KAT doesn’t have a point. On both the hooking call tonight and the fourth foul (also offensive,) the defender initiated contact that would have sent Embiid or Jokic to the line. KAT may have committed fouls afterward, but the situation only arises because KAT gets very few whistle relative to the amount of contact he receives.

In fairness, you are right
...
To a point. There is whining, and there is the level that Kat takes it to. Talent is really not a factor, mental toughness and durability is. Also, say what you want, Kats fouls are fouls. Does he get the same calls as other players? No. But do you think behaving the way he does and responding the way he does is going to help change that? It's not about the game being called Fair I've accepted that. If it was half of these so-called elite Stars wouldn't be half as successful as they are. I would love one game to be called with completely unbiased officials straight down the middle by the book just to see how different it looks.

[winforlose]

While I don't necessarily want to start the KAT Trade Train again, I'll agree that the whining is really, REALLY getting old

Please name 3 elite NBA players who don’t whine? Also, can you guys honestly say KAT doesn’t have a point. On both the hooking call tonight and the fourth foul (also offensive,) the defender initiated contact that would have sent Embiid or Jokic to the line. KAT may have committed fouls afterward, but the situation only arises because KAT gets very few whistle relative to the amount of contact he receives.

In fairness, you are right
...
To a point. There is whining, and there is the level that Kat takes it to. Talent is really not a factor, mental toughness and durability is. Also, say what you want, Kats fouls are fouls. Does he get the same calls as other players? No. But do you think behaving the way he does and responding the way he does is going to help change that? It's not about the game being called Fair I've accepted that. If it was half of these so-called elite Stars wouldn't be half as successful as they are. I would love one game to be called with completely unbiased officials straight down the middle by the book just to see how different it looks.

I will grant you that KAT gets overly emotional to the point of losing focus and making more mistakes. I will also grant you that his complaining can interfere with his getting back and consequently can have an impact on the game.

However, I disagree about your point about complaining being an indicator for either mental toughness or durability. KAT missed time in two seasons (specifically 19-20 and 20-21) for actual injuries. He missed time in 20-21 and now 21-22 with Covid (as well as one game with the tailbone injury.) None of the above relates to his attitude toward refs. His foul trouble is a symptom of the uneven ways he is officiated. Take the hooking foul from last night. Yes he hooked the player, but only after he lost his balance from the initial contact the defender made with him.

As for mental toughness, that is an ambiguous term at best. Is shooting efficiency not enough. What about rim protecting. 3 blocks last night is not insignificant. Playing 35 minutes plus a night isn’t a sign of toughness? Harden complains all the time, so does Luca, Durant, Curry, Booker, ect… Are they all soft? Are they incapable of leading simply because they try and get the refs to protect them and give them additional scoring opportunities?

[shrink]

Richardson doesn’t have the value some of you think. his glory days in Miami are far behind him.

I agree, but is Beasley having glory days? This is basically Beasley for Richardson.

Then MIN gives a 2nd to BOS to improve their finances a bit, next year.

[shrink]

I also hate the whining, but it is endemic now for nearly all sports. Sportsmanship is taking a beating across the board, as people all behave like selfish elementary school kids once they enter an arena.

Coaches scream and pout over bad calls, and getting tossed out of a game for excessive stunts is a game tactic to motivate a team.

In soccer, slight contact is met with Academy Award level acting, like the player has been hit with a shotgun at close range.

Arguing calls in baseball is ridiculous as well. We have rules against this, taunting, flopping - but they are rarely enforced.

Finally, many fans feel that by buying a ticket, they have purchased the right to boo players, and they can use anything in a players personal life, to do so. They say things in an arena that they would be ashamed to repeat to their mom the next morning.

Yes, I hate KAT’s whining, but I hate all of this kind of childishness in all sports. Charles Barkley reminds us that athletes aren’t role models, but if I was a parent seeing my kids do this, I’d have the coach sit them on the bench the rest of the game. While there is a little backslide lately, Japanese baseball fans and players behave like adults and respect umpires, and the game works just fine. We have allowed this, across all our sports - this is hardly just a KAT thing.

[Neeva]

...although we should totally trade KAT

(ducks)

For the hometown boys?
KAT to Orlando for Jalen Suggs and number 2 2022 pick Chet Homlgren and filler? I’d try to get the Wagners also.

[Macwolf527]

I also hate the whining, but it is endemic now for nearly all sports. Sportsmanship is taking a beating across the board, as people all behave like selfish elementary school kids once they enter an arena.

Coaches scream and pout over bad calls, and getting tossed out of a game for excessive stunts is a game tactic to motivate a team.

In soccer, slight contact is met with Academy Award level acting, like the player has been hit with a shotgun at close range.

Arguing calls in baseball is ridiculous as well. We have rules against this, taunting, flopping - but they are rarely enforced.

Finally, many fans feel that by buying a ticket, they have purchased the right to boo players, and they can use anything in a players personal life, to do so. They say things in an arena that they would be ashamed to repeat to their mom the next morning.

Yes, I hate KAT’s whining, but I hate all of this kind of childishness in all sports. Charles Barkley reminds us that athletes aren’t role models, but if I was a parent seeing my kids do this, I’d have the coach sit them on the bench the rest of the game. While there is a little backslide lately, Japanese baseball fans and players behave like adults and respect umpires, and the game works just fine. We have allowed this, across all our sports - this is hardly just a KAT thing.

I don't care for the whining either, but we all have seen KAT get beat up and not get calls. Finch made this point earlier in the season, that other players of KAT's stature get the calls around the league. You can't touch Embiid (10.4 FTA) without a whistle being blown. If we want to compare apples to apples, Jokic shoots 5.4 FTA per game compared to KAT's 5.8. But as whining goes, Jokic is as big as they come. To me, this is big market favortism (Philly) over small market (Denver and Minnesota). As long as his whining doesn''t hurt the team, I have no problem him being a headache for the refs, if he's not getting calls. I will point out that over the last couple of games, KAT was obviously in the wrong on a couple of calls. He even got a tech in the first OKC on an obvious foul call on him. This is the type of stuff that can not happen, because you're hurting the team. Other than that, I could care less about him being a pain in the refs (insert Ed Malloy) behind, six in one hand, half a dozen in the other.

[shrink]

I had to alter the previous trade because MIN can’t legally reclaim Juancho, so here’s the final version.

MIN GIVES: Beasley, Okogie, Layman and DEN 2022 2nd
MIN GETS: Richardson, Dieng, Lou Williams, Solomon Hill (out), ATL 2023 2nd

BOS GIVES:: Richardson, Juancho
BOS GETS: Beasley, Layman, DEN 2022 2nd

ATL GIVES: Dieng, Lou Williams, Solomon Hill (out), ATL 2023 2nd
ATL GETS: Okogie, Juancho

(Lou Williams can decline the trade, so if he wants to go back to California, waive Hill, then follow up with)

MIN GIVES: Lou Williams
MIN GETS: Bazemore, DeAndre Jordan, 2024 LAL 2nd

Overall, MIN can look at this as Beasley-for-Richardson, and Okogie-for-Dieng, with $3 mil in payroll relief next year, and trading one of our three 2022 2nds, for two more future 2nds. We would likely waive Hill, Bazemore and Jordan, and have two open roster spots.

I think Richardson and Beasley are comparable players, but JRich is more two-way, and may not overlap future minutes for Nowell as much as Malik. He and Jaylen also mean some DNP-CD’s for Okogie. Dieng is just our fifth big when we need size, can shoot to spread the floor a bit, and he already knows KAT. It’s not a big sexy deal, but I think it makes us better for the playoffs.

Reasons for the other teams can be found here: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2154177

[wolves_89]

I am wondering if the Wolves should move on from pursuing a Ben Simmons trade. I don't think Simmons and Vanderbilt can play together and it has begun to seem like a bad idea to reduce Vando to a 15 min a night bench role. Add in the assets it would take to get Simmons, and I am questioning if that's a move that makes sense anymore. Personally, I'd make a hard push for Myles Turner and if that didn't happen focus on lesser bench bigs line Larry Nance or Kelly Olynyk.

[winforlose]

I am wondering if the Wolves should move on from pursuing a Ben Simmons trade. I don't think Simmons and Vanderbilt can play together and it has begun to seem like a bad idea to reduce Vando to a 15 min a night bench role. Add in the assets it would take to get Simmons, and I am questioning if that's a move that makes sense anymore. Personally, I'd make a hard push for Myles Turner and if that didn't happen focus on lesser bench bigs line Larry Nance or Kelly Olynyk.

Sounds reasonable. If only people had been saying that since the summer.

[Domejandro]

Who think we COULDN’T have beat OKC by the same 30 points with Sabonis instead of towns?

Oh yeah.. but less whining and more bbiq.

While I don't necessarily want to start the KAT Trade Train again, I'll agree that the whining is really, REALLY getting old

Please name 3 elite NBA players who don’t whine? Also, can you guys honestly say KAT doesn’t have a point. On both the hooking call tonight and the fourth foul (also offensive,) the defender initiated contact that would have sent Embiid or Jokic to the line. KAT may have committed fouls afterward, but the situation only arises because KAT gets very few whistle relative to the amount of contact he receives.

The reason that they get those calls is because they have the body-control to not blatantly commit offensive fouls while taking contact. Towns gets difficult calls, but it is largely his fault.

[shangrila]

1. “Other people do it” is not a valid reason to do stupid things.

2. It clearly hurts the team and has yet to produce any noticeable change if he’s still getting bad calls, so it’s both pointless and unproductive.

3. It’s unprofessional and I don’t want to support a man child throwing a tantrum because everything isn’t going his way. Of all people I would have assumed Towns would have learnt that life lesson already. Guess not.

[Norseman79]

How available is cam reddish?

[winforlose]

1. “Other people do it” is not a valid reason to do stupid things.

2. It clearly hurts the team and has yet to produce any noticeable change if he’s still getting bad calls, so it’s both pointless and unproductive.

3. It’s unprofessional and I don’t want to support a man child throwing a tantrum because everything isn’t going his way. Of all people I would have assumed Towns would have learnt that life lesson already. Guess not.

So who should we trade for that won’t do it. You are watching the wrong sport if you want sportsmanship, try golf. Look at Bev, not only does he complain, he trashtalks, plays mind games, and pisses people off. KG was like that too.

Personally I hate it as well. But any player of quality you trade for will do the same thing. Did you enjoy the losing while KAT was out with Covid?

[m2002brian]

There’s complaining and then there’s KAT.

Ant gets less calls than KAT all the while getting hacked quite often on his drives. Yet he doesn’t come off as some entitled brat.

Watching Towns, regardless of talent, is joyless. It can’t be fun playing with him. If KAT had the work ethic and head down demeanor of Vando, he’d be a guy teammates follow into battle. He’s not putting the team first with his **** attitude. Get the **** back on D and talk to the refs at a clock stoppage. Have some **** tact.

[winforlose]

There’s complaining and then there’s KAT.

Ant gets less calls than KAT all the while getting hacked quite often on his drives. Yet he doesn’t come off as some entitled brat.

Watching Towns, regardless of talent, is joyless. It can’t be fun playing with him. If KAT had the work ethic and head down demeanor of Vando, he’d be a guy teammates follow into battle. He’s not putting the team first with his **** attitude. Get the **** back on D and talk to the refs at a clock stoppage. Have some **** tact.

First, Ant does the same thing. Second, Vando is yelling and 1 and complaining too. Third, it’s the league. I agree it is annoying, but so often when a player gets called for a foul instead of putting their hand up and accepting it, they complain and make some kind of spectacle.

[wolves_89]

I don't care about KAT complaining, I care that he can't seem to let things go which often ends with him committing a foolish foul. He needs to develop the ability to forget the past play and only focus on the current action.

[shangrila]

1. “Other people do it” is not a valid reason to do stupid things.

2. It clearly hurts the team and has yet to produce any noticeable change if he’s still getting bad calls, so it’s both pointless and unproductive.

3. It’s unprofessional and I don’t want to support a man child throwing a tantrum because everything isn’t going his way. Of all people I would have assumed Towns would have learnt that life lesson already. Guess not.

So who should we trade for that won’t do it. You are watching the wrong sport if you want sportsmanship, try golf. Look at Bev, not only does he complain, he trashtalks, plays mind games, and pisses people off. KG was like that too.

Personally I hate it as well. But any player of quality you trade for will do the same thing. Did you enjoy the losing while KAT was out with Covid?

I’ll be honest, I’ve had you on ignore for a while now. And now that I’ve seen this comment, can’t exactly say it was a bad decision.

[karch34]

I don't care about KAT complaining, I care that he can't seem to let things go which often ends with him committing a foolish foul. He needs to develop the ability to forget the past play and only focus on the current action.

Great post!