Raps will make the playoffs, and 2nd round, if healthy

[Los_29]

Bulls have 6 championships Raptors have 1. You guys acting like you're some great team. You were a lottery team with the same players last year, lol. Bulls are in first place. Keeping making up facts loll

Once again, reading comprehension. Yikes. Bulls won their championships 25-30 years ago. And I'm clearly talking about the Bulls team this year with their core consisting of players who have a) never played in the playoffs or b) have performed poorly in the playoffs.

You seem hung up on experience, or lack thereof. The Hawks made it to the ECF last year, with a young team that didn't have much experience, so it is possible for a team with limited experience, to make it far in the playoffs. No one is saying that the Bulls are going to be favorites in the east, but hanging on to the "experience" reasoning isn't much, when the Bulls simply out-talent a team like the Raptors.

The Hawks had a pretty easy path though beating the Knicks and then facing a Sixers team that imploded. This year the Hawks have been below .500. The Hawks won't get out of the first round this year. They might not even make the playoffs.

But that's the thing, do they out talent the Raptors? I've stated the problems with their core already on here so I don't need to repeat it. Playoffs are a completely different animal than the regular season. After witnessing Vucevic and Derozan in the playoffs and knowing what Lavine brings to the table, I am confident that the Bulls will not be a good playoff team. No one is saying that the Raptors are going to bring home a championship, in fact we get destroyed by the Nets and Bucks but the Bulls are not a scary team and they have tons of question marks.

[Los_29]

Once again, reading comprehension. Yikes. Bulls won their championships 25-30 years ago. And I'm clearly talking about the Bulls team this year with their core consisting of players who have a) never played in the playoffs or b) have performed poorly in the playoffs.

You seem hung up on experience, or lack thereof. The Hawks made it to the ECF last year, with a young team that didn't have much experience, so it is possible for a team with limited experience, to make it far in the playoffs. No one is saying that the Bulls are going to be favorites in the east, but hanging on to the "experience" reasoning isn't much, when the Bulls simply out-talent a team like the Raptors.

These Raptor fans don't like facts. I'm not even a Bulls fan and they're attacking me lol it comical.

I'm still waiting for you to bring facts to the table.

[Jabroni Lames]

In 19/20, OG held opponents to 44% (2% below their average) and posted positive impact numbers across the board (+1.6 D-RAPTOR, +1.59 D-LEBRON, +0.62 D-RAPM).

In 20/21, OG held opponents to 43% (4% below their average) and posted positive defensive impact numbers across the board (+2.3 DRAPTOR, +1.07 D-LEBRON,.+0.67 D-RAPM) while being one of the most versatile defenders in the league (as seen in the picture below).

Read on Twitter

OG has always been a very good defender and he was elite last season. Even this season, he has been a good defender despite what some numbers may lead you to believe. His numbers are being dragged down significantly because Toronto's defence was terrible in the first 15 games (couple new pieces in the starting lineup, Barnes' team defence was pretty bad, Siakam was coming back from injury near the end of that stretch and was playing at half speed, etc.) then he went down with an injury for a month. Despite that, he has held numerous stars to poor shooting numbers (Beal 2/10, Tatum 2/8, Randle 3/9, Durant 3/7) while forcing 2-4 turnovers each in ~10 minutes.

If there is ever an opponent lighting it up to start the game, OG is almost always thrown on them to slow them down -- and he generally succeeds.

Raptors fans overrate their players so much its comical.

I'm not overrating OG lol. I literally provided multiple seasons worth of evidence painting him as a great defender and proof that he is one of the most versatile defenders. Since BBall Index started tracking defensive versatility ~8 seasons ago, OG posted the 2nd highest ever mark as he defended PG (19%), SG (18%), SF (19%), PF (26%) and C (18%) almost equally last year -- and all at a very high level.

Read what people are saying and actually watch some Raptors games before you go trolling a fanbase of a team that you watch maybe 3 times a year.

If OG, Siakam, FVV & Barnes are such great defenders, with Trent also emerging as a steals/deflections leader, then why TF are the Raptors in the bottom 3rd of the league in defensive rating? I guess that means y'all genius coach, Nick Nurse, sucks. Can't win sh*t without Lowry (and Kawhi & Gasol).

[Clocian]

This is another good thread to bookmark.

And I'm tired of people spreading lies like the Bulls haven't lost games due missing half our team. ICYMI, we did vs Heat and Cavs. Then we had a grand total of 2 games cancelled because we didn't have the players (it was brought up above that raptors had games cancelled too so the point is???). According to raptors fan, if we played those 2 games with half our team missing, we wouldn't be as good as we are. Just so you know, we would still be 1st in the east if we lost those two games. Have a good day.

[payton2kemp]

You seem hung up on experience, or lack thereof. The Hawks made it to the ECF last year, with a young team that didn't have much experience, so it is possible for a team with limited experience, to make it far in the playoffs. No one is saying that the Bulls are going to be favorites in the east, but hanging on to the "experience" reasoning isn't much, when the Bulls simply out-talent a team like the Raptors.

These Raptor fans don't like facts. I'm not even a Bulls fan and they're attacking me lol it comical.

I'm still waiting for you to bring facts to the table.

fact 1 Raptors were a lottery team with the same roster last year. Fact 2 the current win streak is against g league teams. You're reading comprehension is a failure. Keep living in your bubble.

[TheLand13]

OG is a better defender than Prime PG and Prime LeBron? That's kinda news to me...

LeBron finished 2nd in DPOY voting twice, and PG just as recently as 2019 finished top 3...

Yes. He is.

Absolutely laughable. Playing the Raptors, OG has never stuck out as a monstrous defender to me or even an elite one. D-RAPM, D-LEBRON, and Defensive RAPTOR all paint him as quite literally a negative defender. He’s just barely positive in Defensive EPM. And you’re over here saying he’s DPOY level.

First off, OG had a positive Defensive RAPTOR rating last season and has been better defensively this year. Second, I almost never go off of D-RAPM. Ever. Going off of D-RAPM, Kobe Bryant was a negative defender. Advanced metrics and evaluating individual defenders almost never meshes well. It goes entirely off of defensive impact which is very difficult for guards to have compared to bigs. And people who rely on these when determining whether or not someone is a great defensive player are either...

1. Lazy.

2. Don't watch the games.

3. Have no idea what good defense is because they've never played a game of basketball in their life.

If you want to tell me that someone isn't a good defensive player, explain to me what they do wrong on the floor. Using advanced metrics to try to explain why someone isn't a good defender and nothing else is literally the equivalent of thinking your the coolest kid in high school because your dad bought you a nicer car than everyone else.

If OG, Siakam, FVV & Barnes are such great defenders, with Trent also emerging as a steals/deflections leader, then why TF are the Raptors in the bottom 3rd of the league in defensive rating? I guess that means y'all genius coach, Nick Nurse, sucks. Can't win sh*t without Lowry (and Kawhi & Gasol).

First off, Toronto is 20th, not 27, no idea where you got that from. Second, because they lack legitimate rim protecting bigs, and that's going to screw over any team no matter how great your perimeter defense is. Toronto is third in the league in allowing second chance points, and that's because they lack the size to prevent opposing teams from getting easy offensive boards and scoring opportunities inside. That's been their biggest issue all season and Siakam returning hasn't helped solve that problem.

Again, people, watch the games. It's not that hard.

[pingpongrac]

Raptors fans overrate their players so much its comical.

I'm not overrating OG lol. I literally provided multiple seasons worth of evidence painting him as a great defender and proof that he is one of the most versatile defenders. Since BBall Index started tracking defensive versatility ~8 seasons ago, OG posted the 2nd highest ever mark as he defended PG (19%), SG (18%), SF (19%), PF (26%) and C (18%) almost equally last year -- and all at a very high level.

Read what people are saying and actually watch some Raptors games before you go trolling a fanbase of a team that you watch maybe 3 times a year.

If OG, Siakam, FVV & Barnes are such great defenders, with Trent also emerging as a steals/deflections leader, then why TF are the Raptors in the bottom 3rd of the league in defensive rating? I guess that means y'all genius coach, Nick Nurse, sucks. Can't win sh*t without Lowry (and Kawhi & Gasol).

Unfamiliarity, inexperience and health. Toronto's opening day roster featured 2 rookies and 3 additional new players on top of Trent and Birch (who played ~20 games with Toronto last year, most of which with a bunch of players not on the team now). Siakam was also injured the first 10 games then the starting lineup was a revolving door with Birch/Achiuwa missing time before OG also missed 15 straight games.

Since December 1st, Toronto has the 6th ranked defence. It was really only the first 15-20 games where their defence was really bad and it has generally been improving as the season goes along and they get more healthy. All of Toronto's most used lineups have good or great DRTGs, and their DRTG will continue to rise with more minutes going to their top players rather than Svi/Flynn/Banton playing ~50 minutes combined. I can guarantee that.

[Los_29]

These Raptor fans don't like facts. I'm not even a Bulls fan and they're attacking me lol it comical.

I'm still waiting for you to bring facts to the table.

fact 1 Raptors were a lottery team with the same roster last year. Fact 2 the current win streak is against g league teams. You're reading comprehension is a failure. Keep living in your bubble.

Fact: Golden State were the worst team in the league two years ago with Curry, Draymond and Wiggins and their team is pretty much the same as it is this year. What happened?

And yes, I've acknowledged that our win streak is against covid depleted teams but you still have not acknowledged that we were without Pascal for the first 11 games and 13 games in total, OG missed 15 games, FVV missed 3 games, GTJ missed 3 games, Barnes missed 5 games. Plus tons of injuries to our bench guys. This team's starting lineup has played among the least amount of minutes together in the entire league. That's a fact.

This is tiring.

[TheLand13]

I'm still waiting for you to bring facts to the table.

fact 1 Raptors were a lottery team with the same roster last year. Fact 2 the current win streak is against g league teams. You're reading comprehension is a failure. Keep living in your bubble.

Fact: Golden State were the worst team in the league two years ago with Curry, Draymond and Wiggins and their team is pretty much the same as it is this year. What happened

That's funny, I don't recall that team having Gary Payton II, Andre Iguodala, or Andrew Wiggins. Oh yeah that's right, they didn't.

(And yes, I'm including Wiggins in that list. Wiggins didn't join the Warriors until basically before the trade deadline, and he wasn't nearly as focused on defense at the time as he is now).

And Curry only played five games that entire season. Come on now.

[Los_29]

fact 1 Raptors were a lottery team with the same roster last year. Fact 2 the current win streak is against g league teams. You're reading comprehension is a failure. Keep living in your bubble.

Fact: Golden State were the worst team in the league two years ago with Curry, Draymond and Wiggins and their team is pretty much the same as it is this year. What happened

That's funny, I don't recall that team having Gary Payton II, Andre Iguodala, or Andrew Wiggins. Oh yeah that's right, they didn't.

(And yes, I'm including Wiggins in that list. Wiggins didn't join the Warriors until basically before the trade deadline, and he wasn't nearly as focused on defense at the time as he is now).

And Curry only played five games that entire season. Come on now.

Gary Payton II and Iguodala are bench players that get like 15 minutes a game. Secondly, Wiggins got to the team late in the year and they had D-Lo before that. And thirdly, that is exactly my point. Curry was injured and Draymond only played 40-50 games. I'm bringing them up as an example because they are the same team as two years ago and last year and are doing really well this year. The Raptors on paper are very similar to last year but last year we had tons of injuries and played in Tampa Bay. So comparing our record last year to this years record is just silly and nonsensical. Just like comparing Golden State's record last year and two years ago to this years record.

[TheLand13]

Gary Payton II and Iguodala are bench players that get like 15 minutes a game.

Andrew Bogut was a 15 MPG player in 2016 and yet was instrumental to providing Golden State with valuable rim protecting defense. Those two provide Golden State with critical perimeter defense.

Secondly, Wiggins got to the team late in the year and they had D-Lo before that. And thirdly, that is exactly my point. Curry was injured and Draymond only played 40-50 games. I'm bringing them up as an example because they are the same team as two years ago and last year and are doing really well this year. The Raptors on paper are very similar to last year but last year we had tons of injuries and played in Tampa Bay. So comparing our record last year to this years record is just silly and nonsensical. Just like comparing Golden State's record last year and two years ago to this years record.

Ah, I see. Fair enough.

[GeorgeMarcus]

I think the Raps get through the play in but lose in the 1st round. Too big of a hole at C unless the small ball lineup really clicks. Pretty weak bench as well. Promising future though

[YogurtProducer]

Raptors fans overrate their players so much its comical.

I'm not overrating OG lol. I literally provided multiple seasons worth of evidence painting him as a great defender and proof that he is one of the most versatile defenders. Since BBall Index started tracking defensive versatility ~8 seasons ago, OG posted the 2nd highest ever mark as he defended PG (19%), SG (18%), SF (19%), PF (26%) and C (18%) almost equally last year -- and all at a very high level.

Read what people are saying and actually watch some Raptors games before you go trolling a fanbase of a team that you watch maybe 3 times a year.

If OG, Siakam, FVV & Barnes are such great defenders, with Trent also emerging as a steals/deflections leader, then why TF are the Raptors in the bottom 3rd of the league in defensive rating? I guess that means y'all genius coach, Nick Nurse, sucks. Can't win sh*t without Lowry (and Kawhi & Gasol).

Because they have played a grand total of 7 games together. 7. Most of the time we were missing 2 (sometimes 3, 4, or 5) main rotational players. Svi Mykhaliuk, who is like our 12th man, has played 18mpg and started multiple games because that is how many guys have been out.

I have not read the entire thread to know what is with all the Chicago-Toronto Animosity, but Toronto has lost a loooot of games this year due to purely injuries. Any team whose starting lineup has missed 35ish games, and main bench pieces another 40+ should kind of be taken with a grain of salt.

Hell, remove the Cleveland game (where we had like 2 rotation players, 2 g-leaguers, and 4 hardship exemptions) where we gave up like 150 points and we are probably ahead of Chicago in DRTG. Obviously you can't do that, but some context kind of matters.

Obviously a completely broken exercise, but the average DRTG of rotation players on Toronto is 107.6 (FVV, Trent, OG, Siakam, Barnes, Birch, Achiwua, Boucher) - good enough for 6th in the NBA. The problem is we have had to play a lot of horrible defenders and end of bench players like Svi, Banton, Flynn, who are borderline G-League level talents who were asked to play big rotation minutes up until like 10 games ago.

In all honesty, no stats are very useful for the Raptors. Against full strength teams we were decimated by injuries and covids, and when we have been full strength the opposition has been decimated. Even last year (that some posters are trying to use) is pretty useless as we really did not have any home games, and we were also probably the most decimated team in the league due to COVID.

[YogurtProducer]

I think the Raps get through the play in but lose in the 1st round. Too big of a hole at C unless the small ball lineup really clicks. Pretty weak bench as well. Promising future though

All I know is even in 2019-20 when we had Ibaka and Gasol, we still relied heavily on the FVV/Lowry/Powell/Anunoby/Siakam lineup against Boston. I do not think our lack of a C is really going to matter much. Obviously if we play Embiid that is a complete different story, but most East teams do not have a guy like that I really worry about.

You gotta remember.. that center has to guard one of OG/Siakam/Barnes as well. How many centers can realistically do that?

[yellowknifer]

This is another good thread to bookmark.

And I'm tired of people spreading lies like the Bulls haven't lost games due missing half our team. ICYMI, we did vs Heat and Cavs. Then we had a grand total of 2 games cancelled because we didn't have the players (it was brought up above that raptors had games cancelled too so the point is???). According to raptors fan, if we played those 2 games with half our team missing, we wouldn't be as good as we are. Just so you know, we would still be 1st in the east if we lost those two games. Have a good day.

Not gonna argue about the Raps vs Bulls but the Raptors got forced to play with like 10 total players half of them d leaguers. Probably shouldn't have happened... just my opinion. Only happened a couple times.

[DelAbbot]

We been on a streak winning over teams missing their star players due to injury or covid protocols,, while we have been fully healthy (for 1st time this season). So our raging homers can't contain their chest-thumping on our own board and need to continue on the General Board - making all Raptors fans look crazy

[payton2kemp]

We been on a streak winning over teams missing their star players due to injury or covid protocols. So our raging homers can't contain their chest-thumping on our own board and need to continue on the General Board

lol finally an honest Raptors fan. Respect bud!

[Los_29]

We been on a streak winning over teams missing their star players due to injury or covid protocols. So our raging homers can't contain their chest-thumping on our own board and need to continue on the General Board

lol finally an honest Raptors fan. Respect bud!

DelAbbot is a guy that so desperately wants our team to tank and has wished injury on our players. When the Raptors were without their top players and losing, he was celebrating our losses and saying that injuries are just an excuse. Lol. He’s hardly a guy we take seriously.

And it’s not really a controversial take to say the Raptors can compete and possibly beat the Bulls. No one has said they’d beat the Nets or Bucks or Heat. But the possibility is there to advance to the 2nd round with the right matchup. That matchup is against the Bulls.

You guys are so sensitive, it’s hilarious.

[payton2kemp]

We been on a streak winning over teams missing their star players due to injury or covid protocols. So our raging homers can't contain their chest-thumping on our own board and need to continue on the General Board

lol finally an honest Raptors fan. Respect bud!

DelAbbot is a guy that so desperately wants our team to tank and has wished injury on our players. When the Raptors were without their top players and losing, he was celebrating our losses and saying that injuries are just an excuse. Lol. He’s hardly a guy we take seriously.

And it’s not really a controversial take to say the Raptors can compete and possibly beat the Bulls. No one has said they’d beat the Nets or Bucks or Heat. But the possibility is there to advance to the 2nd round with the right matchup. That matchup is against the Bulls.

You guys are so sensitive, it’s hilarious.

Stop speaking for others bud, you don't even know him. And your the one whose so sensitive lol I'm not a Bulls fans but I call it like I see it, you guys are mad butt hurt over in this thread its comical

[Los_29]

lol finally an honest Raptors fan. Respect bud!

DelAbbot is a guy that so desperately wants our team to tank and has wished injury on our players. When the Raptors were without their top players and losing, he was celebrating our losses and saying that injuries are just an excuse. Lol. He’s hardly a guy we take seriously.

And it’s not really a controversial take to say the Raptors can compete and possibly beat the Bulls. No one has said they’d beat the Nets or Bucks or Heat. But the possibility is there to advance to the 2nd round with the right matchup. That matchup is against the Bulls.

You guys are so sensitive, it’s hilarious.

Stop speaking for others bud, you don't even know him. And your the one whose so sensitive lol I'm not a Bulls fans but I call it like I see it, you guys are mad butt hurt over in this thread its comical

I think you should read through these posts again and see who the sensitive ones are.

But good luck to you sir. Hope Seattle gets a team and they can win a championship like the Raptors did.