Blow It Up

[Feed Your Head]

I don't form opinions on a player based on a single play in a game where everyone was terrible down the stretch.

Well everyone besides the one guy whose consistently been terrible down the stretch of games (this year). Why can’t all of our guys ever play well down the stretch of a game?

Pain.

Right. Tatum was awesome in that game all the way through. The one game where I can definitively say his teammates let him down. Not much more he could've done in that game.

Related: Has there been a game this year where both Brown and Tatum played great? (I'm aware Jaylen missed a bunch of games.) I can only recall the Charlotte game really early in the season.

Charlotte game is the only one that comes to mind. We either use Jaylen all wrong, Jaylen doesn’t want to change his game, or both. I’ve been on the record many times here that I don’t think Jaylen is selfish, that he just doesn’t have the recognition/iq. But these last two games since Tatum has been back? I think he has been almost exclusively looking for his own shot, one potential assist two games ago, and the tracking hasn’t updated for the Knicks game, but I’d guess he had 3 or less.

I didn’t hold anything from the games without Tatum against JB, because that’s just not fair IMO. But I’ve been really disappointed in him the last two games. I know that will get me called a hater, but whatever lol.

[zoyathedestroya]

Well everyone besides the one guy whose consistently been terrible down the stretch of games (this year). Why can’t all of our guys ever play well down the stretch of a game?

Pain.

Right. Tatum was awesome in that game all the way through. The one game where I can definitively say his teammates let him down. Not much more he could've done in that game.

Related: Has there been a game this year where both Brown and Tatum played great? (I'm aware Jaylen missed a bunch of games.) I can only recall the Charlotte game really early in the season.

Charlotte game is the only one that comes to mind. We either use Jaylen all wrong, Jaylen doesn’t want to change his game, or both. I’ve been on the record many times here that I don’t think Jaylen is selfish, that he just doesn’t have the recognition/iq. But these last two games since Tatum has been back? I think he has been almost exclusively looking for his own shot, one potential assist two games ago, and the tracking hasn’t updated for the Knicks game, but I’d guess he had 3 or less. I

didn’t hold anything from the games without Tatum against JB, because that’s just not fair IMO. But I’ve been really disappointed in him the last two games. I know that will get me called a hater, but whatever lol.

There's something going on between those two (even three, can include Smart). Don't you dare touch my tin foil hat!

[Feed Your Head]

Right. Tatum was awesome in that game all the way through. The one game where I can definitively say his teammates let him down. Not much more he could've done in that game.

Related: Has there been a game this year where both Brown and Tatum played great? (I'm aware Jaylen missed a bunch of games.) I can only recall the Charlotte game really early in the season.

Charlotte game is the only one that comes to mind. We either use Jaylen all wrong, Jaylen doesn’t want to change his game, or both. I’ve been on the record many times here that I don’t think Jaylen is selfish, that he just doesn’t have the recognition/iq. But these last two games since Tatum has been back? I think he has been almost exclusively looking for his own shot, one potential assist two games ago, and the tracking hasn’t updated for the Knicks game, but I’d guess he had 3 or less. I

didn’t hold anything from the games without Tatum against JB, because that’s just not fair IMO. But I’ve been really disappointed in him the last two games. I know that will get me called a hater, but whatever lol.

There's something going on between those two (even three, can include Smart). Don't you dare touch my tin foil hat!

The pretend best friendship between the Jay’s for the camera is so weird, to me. I’m not saying they dislike each other, but it’s pretty clear that they aren’t particularly close.

From everything I’ve heard, Smart and Tatum are cool. No clue about Jaylen and Smart, but it seems up and down, to say the least lol.

[Tatumfor2]

Do you think Jaylen is hoping to still make the all-star game if he shines bright enough in these last few games during the voting? He's missed too much time and our record is too bad for him to make it, but I wonder if that's why he's pressing so much.

[Feed Your Head]

Do you think Jaylen is hoping to still make the all-star game if he shines bright enough in these last few games during the voting? He's missed too much time and our record is too bad for him to make it, but I wonder if that's why he's pressing so much.

Was my first thought, and I mean it’s only human nature. Of course he wants to make it, and I’d assume he thinks scoring is how he would get in.

[Fencer reregistered]

Personally, I think Ime needs to start with the Jays. Like you said, the young guys have shown the ability and willingness to do it. Smart is a ball-mover, always has been. Him, Al, and Grant are maybe the 3 guys that swing the ball constantly. It starts and ends with the Jays. They do it, everyone else will follow. They relent, whether in action or in words, whole team reverts back to bad old habits and you can say goodbye to ball movement. It is what it is. Most stars want the ball in their hands (Brown in particular wants it more this season). Curry is just a different creature who can impact the game as much offball as on the ball and makes his teammates better doing either.

As per this infamous screenshot from late in the Knicks game, Smart could do better at ball movement.

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I don't form opinions on a player based on a single play in a game where everyone was terrible down the stretch.

Neither do I. But I've seen many cases of Marcus taking a questionable 3, as you surely have too. I don't agree with the harshest interpretations of his choices, but I also don't agree with the idea that he's some kind of pass-crazy shorter Ben Simmons.

[zoyathedestroya]

As per this infamous screenshot from late in the Knicks game, Smart could do better at ball movement.

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I don't form opinions on a player based on a single play in a game where everyone was terrible down the stretch.

Neither do I. But I've seen many cases of Marcus taking a questionable 3, as you surely have too. I don't agree with the harshest interpretations of his choices, but I also don't agree with the idea that he's some kind of pass-crazy shorter Ben Simmons.

That's fair.

I now forget how discussion started. But if I had to form a 2014 Spursian ball-moving team and had to rank players from this current team who will 1) buy in and 2) have both the ability and willingness to share the ball, Williamses, Horford, and Smart would be atop those rankings. Kanter, Schroder, and Brown would be at the bottom. Tatum would be somewhere in the middle. I don't think any coach can fully exorcise him of his iso ways. Nor would it be wise to do so either. At certain points especially in the playoffs, a great team needs that star who can bail you out when possessions break down. Tatum just hasn't reached that KD or Jokic level.

[MagicBagley18]

Richardson/Ziare Williams/Hield/3 1sts for Beal if Beal becomes available. Or maybe there's a better way to grab him via S/T in the offseason if he demands his way to Boston where Boston gives up less.

On what planet do you think either of those two options are even remotely realistic? I think it's hilarious that the first offer is absolute trash, and yet the Celtics can somehow "give up less" in an even more unrealistic S/T. Delusional.

If Beal goes to Boston (which he isn't), then Brown+ goes out. It's that simple.

Yes it’s much more likely he goes to places like the kings that are proposed on the wizards board lol......or for Simmons and Philly even tho Simmons has been available for monthssssssss.........he’s not getting traded at the deadline and if he did he would dictate where he goes.

[Feed Your Head]

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?s=20

[ddb]

Everyone out except JT - including JB & Marcus.
Get Beal.
Get a quality big.
Get shooters.

100% this

[GrandTheftRondo]

Changes need to be made but I’m not sold on the Tatum/Brown core being the problem.

I’ve always liked Brown more than most others on here but he’s a genuinely talented NBA player. Is he ever going to be an MVP player? Nope.

But I think he’s a great piece next to Tatum.

Now if you think Tatum will never be an MVP level player then there’s probably an argument to make massive changes. But this guy hasn’t hit his prime yet and has already improved big time since his rookie year. He’s highly rated around the league so I don’t but this argument he can’t be the guy.

What we’ve seen with these two since 2017 though is the team continually lose more and more talent and replace them with crap.

You need a PG in this league to be an elite team. We’ve gone from Kyrie/Rozier to Kemba to Smart.

Smart is a solid enough bench guy who plays elite d but his offence is not starter level and never will be. He’s gone backwards even more this year.

It’s like when the Thunder used to have Andre Roberson standing there on offence, except Smart thinks he’s Steph Curry.

Hayward left and with him went another playmaker who could handle the ball and create for others.

Last year the roster was rubbish. This year the solution was to bring back Horford and Shroeder. Horford hasn’t been the worst but I don’t think he’s what he was. Dennis can handle the ball sure. But he’s another iffy shooter.

I just don’t think Tatum and Brown have been given a chance these last two years with the roster. Then you throw in some coaching issues too.

[exculpatory]

1. Everyone out except JT - including JB & Marcus.
2. Get Beal - Use JB and/or Marcus and/or Grant & flotsam - or maybe much much cheaper if he demands the Celtics & Jayson.
3. Get a quality big - Use JB and/or Marcus and/or Grant & flotsam.
Keep Rob around 1 more year if possible to see if he can develop even a modest O game, & more consistency in general.
4. Get shooters - Use Denise & Al & flotsam.

Apologize for quoting myself.
I wanted to edit my OP & add #5.

5. Also, get a steady/reliable/experienced point who can shoot the 3 if left wide open.

PS HIRE PAUL PIERCE AS AN ASSISTANT TO REFINE JT’s GAME.

[Hal14]

yes, blow it up. these guys clearly all hate each other! lol

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[keevsnick1]

Just to tackle one issue, the "They haven't had good games at the same time" thing.

I don't think there have been many games this year where both guys played well at the same time, but that has a lot to do with A) Tatum having a somewhat down year overall scoring efficiency wise, especially those first 9 games of the year. B) Brown has only played in 26 games and C) Half the games Brown has played in he was coming back from Covid, dealing with a hamstring or D) Tatum was out or just returning from covid.

The two have played only 22 games together this year. Here's a full season breakdown of all the entire season in chunks:

1) First 9 games, Brown back from Covid and Tatum on historic shooting slump.
2) Next 8 games, Brown out with Hammy
3) Next 5 games, Brown clearly not right with hammy
4) Next 5 games, Brown out again with hammy
5) Next 6 games, both guys play both guys healthy
6) Next 4 games, Tatum out with Covid
7) Next 3 games, both guys play Tatum just back from Covid.

When you put it like that there have literally only been 6 games all year where neither guy was dealing with covid/conditioning, a MASSIVE shooting slump, or the brown hammy issue.

So look, unless you somehow think Brown being on the court CAUSED* Tatum's early season shooting slump, I don't get how you can make any determination about how these guys play together given they have, at most, 9 games so far when Tatum wasn't firing bricks AND Brown was healthy. Nine games. That's it.

*IMO obviously he didn't. Fun fact, in that 9 game stretch to start the year Tatum shot 74.5% from the FT line. So if you want to make to make the case that Jaylen was somehow causing Tatum to shoot worse when he's on the floor you'll have to explain how him playing makes Tatum shoot worse FROM THE FT LINE. Even funner fact, on the year Tatum shoots 85% from the line with Brown off, 80% with him on. That's mostly due to that first 9 game stretch and further reinforces the idea that the apparent Brown/Tatum struggles this year are mostly shooting luck. Tatum happened to be way off in a stretch where Brown happened to be healthy and playing, that skews the on/off shooting splits.

Last year, the first year they were the clear #1 and #2 options both guys made the all star team, both were more efficient with the other on vs the other off. Seems like they can play together just fine.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

yes, blow it up. these guys clearly all hate each other! lol

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Yeah let's keep the team together even though they're still not very good for a second year in a row because we saw a 17-second clip of Brown, Richardson and smart getting along.

[Larry_Russell]

Still waiting on a schroder and Horford trade.

Need that 5th starter, a shooter that puts Tatum back as a starting PF

McCollum
Buddy
J. Harris
Barton
Grodon
Powell

[Dogen]

Still waiting on a schroder and Horford trade.

Need that 5th starter, a shooter that puts Tatum back as a starting PF

McCollum
Buddy
J. Harris
Barton
Grodon
Powell

None of the above, I prefer your J Collins trade.