Hallstar wrote:Some of you clearly have no idea of the value Herro would have around the league. Boston would send out Brown without a second thought. They would do anything to have a guard that can create and people in here talking about adding picks? Brown still relies a lot on shots being created for him. He scores within the flow of the game but all those bailout passes we toss to Herro with time running out? Brown's not that guy. There's nothing a Beal or Booker does that he can't, especially taking age into account. Out of all the names mentioned, Mitchell is the only one I'm trading him for. If Herro was on another team we would be coming up with all sorts of wild scenarios to get him. How is trading him for dudes that have near complete freedom with similar production on worse teams make sense?
I guess not because there are tons of players I'd move him for. Luckily, he shot well tonight to raise that TS% up from the .528 it was at before tonight's game. Some other interesting numbers are a PER of 14.6 where 15 is average, only Morris, Highsmith and Staukas have worse DRTGs on Miami and only M.Garrett had a lower ORTG then Herro. He looks smooth on the court, has a great shot, makes some tough shots but also messes up on easy plays. It's like the normal stuff bores him and he needs to be flashy like when he pulled up for a 27 foot jumper 1 on 4 in a tight game late in the 4th on a night he shot 5 for 23. There's always a chance he gets his head straight but there's also a chance he never does. Oh yeah, this was also the game where the announcers talked about Spoelstra having a film session with Herro about taking bad shots, it didn't do a lot of good and that's not exactly something a coach wants.
Hallstar wrote:Some of you clearly have no idea of the value Herro would have around the league. Boston would send out Brown without a second thought. They would do anything to have a guard that can create and people in here talking about adding picks? Brown still relies a lot on shots being created for him. He scores within the flow of the game but all those bailout passes we toss to Herro with time running out? Brown's not that guy. There's nothing a Beal or Booker does that he can't, especially taking age into account. Out of all the names mentioned, Mitchell is the only one I'm trading him for. If Herro was on another team we would be coming up with all sorts of wild scenarios to get him. How is trading him for dudes that have near complete freedom with similar production on worse teams make sense?
Herro is off limits to anybody who is not offering up a top 10 player. This kid is only going to improve. His crap shooting nights are the result of the defenses throwing him different looks he hasn't seen. Once he has seen and learned how to play all the different looks defenses giving him his shooting numbers will be more constant and those bad shooting nights will get less often.
Booker has been in the league 7 years now, and Herro is not that far off. I think he can reach Booker's level in year 5.
Hallstar wrote:Some of you clearly have no idea of the value Herro would have around the league. Boston would send out Brown without a second thought. They would do anything to have a guard that can create and people in here talking about adding picks? Brown still relies a lot on shots being created for him. He scores within the flow of the game but all those bailout passes we toss to Herro with time running out? Brown's not that guy. There's nothing a Beal or Booker does that he can't, especially taking age into account. Out of all the names mentioned, Mitchell is the only one I'm trading him for. If Herro was on another team we would be coming up with all sorts of wild scenarios to get him. How is trading him for dudes that have near complete freedom with similar production on worse teams make sense?
MiamiSun wrote:Herro is off limits to anybody who is not offering up a top 10 player. This kid is only going to improve. His crap shooting nights are the result of the defenses throwing him different looks he hasn't seen. Once he has seen and learned how to play all the different looks defenses giving him his shooting numbers will be more constant and those bad shooting nights will get less often.
Booker has been in the league 7 years now, and Herro is not that far off. I think he can reach Booker's level in year 5.
Now nobody saying he'll be the 2nd best SG in NBA history but the kid is putting up some good numbers. Again, all players go on bad stretches. We don't trade them each time they do. It looks to me we're giving him freedom on offence to kinda fast track his development - Any player this young early in his career bound to make mistakes in this situation, that's just part of the process. He'll learn from them & only become better, stronger & smarter. Spo's not punishing it, which supports the idea we're developing the heck out of Tyler. This is a very positive thing.
People don't just have any clear idea of his value but through the bad stretch have decided to under-appreciate him (total opposite opinion before that stretch). People don't know what we have. Herro is a very talented & skilled player. Look at his footwork, his shooting technique, the way he executes moves - this is a kid who works hard on sharpening his craft. He has the making to be a prolific scorer we've been looking for and at such a young age. The kid is valuable! I agree that the Heat organisation will not move Herro unless for a top 10 player or somebody of that calibre.
Appreciate what you have. The kid may well be a very special player. I'm not willing to find that out w/ him wearing another jersey.
If u don't want 2b here, the way things work, u don't like it, then don't b here.U have 2 stand on something. If Miami ain't standing on something, they become alot of these organizations trying 2 find their identity. This is the culture, bro -Wade
Hallstar wrote:Some of you clearly have no idea of the value Herro would have around the league. Boston would send out Brown without a second thought. They would do anything to have a guard that can create and people in here talking about adding picks? Brown still relies a lot on shots being created for him. He scores within the flow of the game but all those bailout passes we toss to Herro with time running out? Brown's not that guy. There's nothing a Beal or Booker does that he can't, especially taking age into account. Out of all the names mentioned, Mitchell is the only one I'm trading him for. If Herro was on another team we would be coming up with all sorts of wild scenarios to get him. How is trading him for dudes that have near complete freedom with similar production on worse teams make sense?
I guess not because there are tons of players I'd move him for. Luckily, he shot well tonight to raise that TS% up from the .528 it was at before tonight's game. Some other interesting numbers are a PER of 14.6 where 15 is average, only Morris, Highsmith and Staukas have worse DRTGs on Miami and only M.Garrett had a lower ORTG then Herro. He looks smooth on the court, has a great shot, makes some tough shots but also messes up on easy plays. It's like the normal stuff bores him and he needs to be flashy like when he pulled up for a 27 foot jumper 1 on 4 in a tight game late in the 4th on a night he shot 5 for 23. There's always a chance he gets his head straight but there's also a chance he never does. Oh yeah, this was also the game where the announcers talked about Spoelstra having a film session with Herro about taking bad shots, it didn't do a lot of good and that's not exactly something a coach wants.
I don't care that much about advanced stats. It's all eye tests for me and how his impacting the team. Defensively he's doing well enough to stay on the court. He's not hurting the team in that aspect. Offensively, the bad shots have become an issue. Today against Suns he was more controlled. I'm sure they've talked about it with Spo. He needs to reduce the jumpers and attack the rim. Part of why he doesn't is his handles which are lot better. But he needs improve the handles a lot more in order to consistently beat defenders and get to the rim more. This won't happen this season, this is something he'll need to work more in the offseason. But what he can do is better shot selection. Would I trade him now ? Depends on whom. It would have to be an allstar in their prime. I would do it for Beal who has 5 more years left in his prime. I wouldn't do it for Dame because with older players you never know when the wheels fall off. And Dame this season has been disappointing so you have to be worried that he's declining. For me, I'd prefer to wait till next season before deciding on Herro. If he can fix his handles, I think he has the quickness to get to the rim more. I think if you are the Heat you have to wait. He's 22 and he can get to an allstar level. He's got another 10 years + where he will be really good. If you are getting a better player in the same age group as Tyler like a Donnovan Mitchell then it's a no brainer. And De Aron fox doesn't count. He's frustrating but patience with him could pay long term
Kinda hard to gauge the exact value of Herro at this point in time.
He's clearly a very talented scorer with a knack for hitting tough shots. But taking tough shots isn't a recipe for long term successes.
To me it all comes down to his mind. If he's a gym rat and all about the grind and improving, you can feel optimistic about him improving the areas that he's lacking in - mainly :
1) Defense - needs to become average at least, which is doable in our system once he gets stronger and more savy.
2) Decision making - must improve A/TO ratio, he's a decent passer but needs to cut down silly turnovers and improve his vision some.
3) FT ratio - hopefully he can get stronger, improve his handle and by that draw more fouls in the paint.
If he can focus and work hard on those things I think he can be a core piece going forward, become an Allstar level type scoring guard of the Devin Booker mold. If the coaching staff feels he's content with being a high volume shot taker and living the Instagram lifestyle - then getting a more ready proven scorer like a Bradley Beal could be a good move.
It's all about the work, because he has the talent and age on his side.
I love Herro and dont want to trade him.....but......
Dude is rightfully going to get paid a ton, and it would be an easier pill to swallow if he was tighter on defense.
Guys like Martin and Strus, are giving us a lot of flexibility to even have conversations like this.
It is absolutely surreal that we have had large chunks without starters and have managed to survive (thanks in part to Herro). Hell... we blamed entire crap season on loosing Jae Crowder...one dude.... Nowadays.... lost Bam? Lost Jimmy? for a few games...at the same time? Throw in that 2 way guy and that 7 footer from skyforce ...no biggy.....
Hallstar wrote:Some of you clearly have no idea of the value Herro would have around the league. Boston would send out Brown without a second thought. They would do anything to have a guard that can create and people in here talking about adding picks? Brown still relies a lot on shots being created for him. He scores within the flow of the game but all those bailout passes we toss to Herro with time running out? Brown's not that guy. There's nothing a Beal or Booker does that he can't, especially taking age into account. Out of all the names mentioned, Mitchell is the only one I'm trading him for. If Herro was on another team we would be coming up with all sorts of wild scenarios to get him. How is trading him for dudes that have near complete freedom with similar production on worse teams make sense?
I guess not because there are tons of players I'd move him for. Luckily, he shot well tonight to raise that TS% up from the .528 it was at before tonight's game. Some other interesting numbers are a PER of 14.6 where 15 is average, only Morris, Highsmith and Staukas have worse DRTGs on Miami and only M.Garrett had a lower ORTG then Herro. He looks smooth on the court, has a great shot, makes some tough shots but also messes up on easy plays. It's like the normal stuff bores him and he needs to be flashy like when he pulled up for a 27 foot jumper 1 on 4 in a tight game late in the 4th on a night he shot 5 for 23. There's always a chance he gets his head straight but there's also a chance he never does. Oh yeah, this was also the game where the announcers talked about Spoelstra having a film session with Herro about taking bad shots, it didn't do a lot of good and that's not exactly something a coach wants.
I don't care that much about advanced stats. It's all eye tests for me and how his impacting the team. Defensively he's doing well enough to stay on the court. He's not hurting the team in that aspect. Offensively, the bad shots have become an issue. Today against Suns he was more controlled. I'm sure they've talked about it with Spo. He needs to reduce the jumpers and attack the rim. Part of why he doesn't is his handles which are lot better. But he needs improve the handles a lot more in order to consistently beat defenders and get to the rim more. This won't happen this season, this is something he'll need to work more in the offseason. But what he can do is better shot selection. Would I trade him now ? Depends on whom. It would have to be an allstar in their prime. I would do it for Beal who has 5 more years left in his prime. I wouldn't do it for Dame because with older players you never know when the wheels fall off. And Dame this season has been disappointing so you have to be worried that he's declining. For me, I'd prefer to wait till next season before deciding on Herro. If he can fix his handles, I think he has the quickness to get to the rim more. I think if you are the Heat you have to wait. He's 22 and he can get to an allstar level. He's got another 10 years + where he will be really good. If you are getting a better player in the same age group as Tyler like a Donnovan Mitchell then it's a no brainer. And De Aron fox doesn't count. He's frustrating but patience with him could pay long term
"He's frustrating but patience with him could pay off long term"? Miami is trying to win a championship NOW. Say he comes into his own in a few years, Butler will probably not be nearly as good so now you've just replaced Butler with Herro, cool, now what, how are you replacing Herro just to get back where you are now? This isn't a rebuilding team; this is a team trying to win a championship which I thought was Miami's #1 priority. Not many teams have the luxury of only going in 80% and winning a championship (by not making the team as strong as it could be that particular season), you usually have to go in 100%.
Here's an interesting wrinkle, Herro is extension eligible after this summer, he's already talked about him being as good as some of the younger stars in the league so you have to know he's wanting a max, do you offer that to him or do you possibly upset him by undercutting him or making him wait another year and have him possibly mad at the franchise.
I would suggest you do what I do, go to NBA.com a day or 2 after the game, go to the box scores of the games and click on a player's FGA and watch every single field goal attempt, look at the defense, look at the moves and look at the shots. People seem to only remember things that stick out like a great move (which Herro does) and kind of forgets the rest of the shots.
I'm actually really interested with Herro, he looks smooth, he works hard, if given much room can make teams pay but what really bothers me is that he goes for the flash over the substance way too often. I first really took noticed of it in the finals, the finals and he still couldn't stop himself and it keeps happening. Also, the screwing up easy passes pushes me more to the flash over substance because he seems to lose focus when making the normal passe from time to time, he's got way more skill to screw those up. Whoever gives him a big contract could be in a bad situation as he'll have the power to do whatever he wants with that big contract backing him. If he were shooting nearly 60% TS% it's one thing to live with a player like that but he's not.
Just go back and look at that picture from Portland I posted, at that time a WINABLE game on the road up by a couple of points late and he pulls up from 27 feet with not one other teammate with him basically throwing away a valuable possession. To me it's like watching Westbrook who can be awesome make the wrong play once again, both have high level egos and think they're the best option way too often.
dshearn wrote:I love Herro and dont want to trade him.....but......
Dude is rightfully going to get paid a ton, and it would be an easier pill to swallow if he was tighter on defense.
Guys like Martin and Strus, are giving us a lot of flexibility to even have conversations like this.
It is absolutely surreal that we have had large chunks without starters and have managed to survive (thanks in part to Herro). Hell... we blamed entire crap season on loosing Jae Crowder...one dude.... Nowadays.... lost Bam? Lost Jimmy? for a few games...at the same time? Throw in that 2 way guy and that 7 footer from skyforce ...no biggy.....
You're seeing a lot of Miami players playing over their heads, teams looking past them and also teams not having much scouting against these guys or how Spoelstra will use them and that can be a big advantage too. Most NBA players have good talent, but it takes a very good to great coach to utilize that for the good of the team, Spoelstra is a great coach and is helping this team win games they probably shouldn't be. It's a great luxury to have a coach like Spoelstra.
AirP. wrote:I guess not because there are tons of players I'd move him for. Luckily, he shot well tonight to raise that TS% up from the .528 it was at before tonight's game. Some other interesting numbers are a PER of 14.6 where 15 is average, only Morris, Highsmith and Staukas have worse DRTGs on Miami and only M.Garrett had a lower ORTG then Herro. He looks smooth on the court, has a great shot, makes some tough shots but also messes up on easy plays. It's like the normal stuff bores him and he needs to be flashy like when he pulled up for a 27 foot jumper 1 on 4 in a tight game late in the 4th on a night he shot 5 for 23. There's always a chance he gets his head straight but there's also a chance he never does. Oh yeah, this was also the game where the announcers talked about Spoelstra having a film session with Herro about taking bad shots, it didn't do a lot of good and that's not exactly something a coach wants.
I don't care that much about advanced stats. It's all eye tests for me and how his impacting the team. Defensively he's doing well enough to stay on the court. He's not hurting the team in that aspect. Offensively, the bad shots have become an issue. Today against Suns he was more controlled. I'm sure they've talked about it with Spo. He needs to reduce the jumpers and attack the rim. Part of why he doesn't is his handles which are lot better. But he needs improve the handles a lot more in order to consistently beat defenders and get to the rim more. This won't happen this season, this is something he'll need to work more in the offseason. But what he can do is better shot selection. Would I trade him now ? Depends on whom. It would have to be an allstar in their prime. I would do it for Beal who has 5 more years left in his prime. I wouldn't do it for Dame because with older players you never know when the wheels fall off. And Dame this season has been disappointing so you have to be worried that he's declining. For me, I'd prefer to wait till next season before deciding on Herro. If he can fix his handles, I think he has the quickness to get to the rim more. I think if you are the Heat you have to wait. He's 22 and he can get to an allstar level. He's got another 10 years + where he will be really good. If you are getting a better player in the same age group as Tyler like a Donnovan Mitchell then it's a no brainer. And De Aron fox doesn't count. He's frustrating but patience with him could pay long term
"He's frustrating but patience with him could pay off long term"? Miami is trying to win a championship NOW. Say he comes into his own in a few years, Butler will probably not be nearly as good so now you've just replaced Butler with Herro, cool, now what, how are you replacing Herro just to get back where you are now? This isn't a rebuilding team; this is a team trying to win a championship which I thought was Miami's #1 priority. Not many teams have the luxury of only going in 80% and winning a championship (by not making the team as strong as it could be that particular season), you usually have to go in 100%.
Here's an interesting wrinkle, Herro is extension eligible after this summer, he's already talked about him being as good as some of the younger stars in the league so you have to know he's wanting a max, do you offer that to him or do you possibly upset him by undercutting him or making him wait another year and have him possibly mad at the franchise.
I would suggest you do what I do, go to NBA.com a day or 2 after the game, go to the box scores of the games and click on a player's FGA and watch every single field goal attempt, look at the defense, look at the moves and look at the shots. People seem to only remember things that stick out like a great move (which Herro does) and kind of forgets the rest of the shots.
I'm actually really interested with Herro, he looks smooth, he works hard, if given much room can make teams pay but what really bothers me is that he goes for the flash over the substance way too often. I first really took noticed of it in the finals, the finals and he still couldn't stop himself and it keeps happening. Also, the screwing up easy passes pushes me more to the flash over substance because he seems to lose focus when making the normal passe from time to time, he's got way more skill to screw those up. Whoever gives him a big contract could be in a bad situation as he'll have the power to do whatever he wants with that big contract backing him. If he were shooting nearly 60% TS% it's one thing to live with a player like that but he's not.
Just go back and look at that picture from Portland I posted, at that time a WINABLE game on the road up by a couple of points late and he pulls up from 27 feet with not one other teammate with him basically throwing away a valuable possession. To me it's like watching Westbrook who can be awesome make the wrong play once again, both have high level egos and think they're the best option way too often.
Those are all coachable fixes. It is all about basement and ceiling for a player like this. The ceiling for Tyler is a Booker type offensive player who can win you a series on his own in the playoffs. With continued growth and good coaching his basement is 5 out of 41 games he stinks it up. I still believe patience and continued coaching is the answer.
We keep talking about how great our developmental program is finding these diamond in the rough players and coaching them up to NBA level talent. Have faith that our developmental program can also take a gifted player and develop him into a star.
AirP. wrote:"He's frustrating but patience with him could pay off long term"? Miami is trying to win a championship NOW. Say he comes into his own in a few years, Butler will probably not be nearly as good so now you've just replaced Butler with Herro, cool, now what, how are you replacing Herro just to get back where you are now? This isn't a rebuilding team; this is a team trying to win a championship which I thought was Miami's #1 priority. Not many teams have the luxury of only going in 80% and winning a championship (by not making the team as strong as it could be that particular season), you usually have to go in 100%.
Here's an interesting wrinkle, Herro is extension eligible after this summer, he's already talked about him being as good as some of the younger stars in the league so you have to know he's wanting a max, do you offer that to him or do you possibly upset him by undercutting him or making him wait another year and have him possibly mad at the franchise.
I would suggest you do what I do, go to NBA.com a day or 2 after the game, go to the box scores of the games and click on a player's FGA and watch every single field goal attempt, look at the defense, look at the moves and look at the shots. People seem to only remember things that stick out like a great move (which Herro does) and kind of forgets the rest of the shots.
I'm actually really interested with Herro, he looks smooth, he works hard, if given much room can make teams pay but what really bothers me is that he goes for the flash over the substance way too often. I first really took noticed of it in the finals, the finals and he still couldn't stop himself and it keeps happening. Also, the screwing up easy passes pushes me more to the flash over substance because he seems to lose focus when making the normal passe from time to time, he's got way more skill to screw those up. Whoever gives him a big contract could be in a bad situation as he'll have the power to do whatever he wants with that big contract backing him. If he were shooting nearly 60% TS% it's one thing to live with a player like that but he's not.
Just go back and look at that picture from Portland I posted, at that time a WINABLE game on the road up by a couple of points late and he pulls up from 27 feet with not one other teammate with him basically throwing away a valuable possession. To me it's like watching Westbrook who can be awesome make the wrong play once again, both have high level egos and think they're the best option way too often.
Those are all coachable fixes. It is all about basement and ceiling for a player like this. The ceiling for Tyler is a Booker type offensive player who can win you a series on his own in the playoffs. With continued growth and good coaching his basement is 5 out of 41 games he stinks it up. I still believe patience and continued coaching is the answer.
So when the announcers mention that Spoelstra and Herro sat down and went over his bad shot selection then that game he jacks up a 1 on 4 27 foot jumper in the 4th on a close road game that leads you to believe he's coachable? This has been happening for a couple of years now. Nah, he's got some Westbrook in him but it's probably also the reason he's where he currently is in the NBA.
Who knows, I understand he's talented and works hard but it's year 3 of still doing the same things he's been doing he's just getting to shoot the ball more. He could have had this year's stats last year if he had gotten the same role.
AirP. wrote:"He's frustrating but patience with him could pay off long term"? Miami is trying to win a championship NOW. Say he comes into his own in a few years, Butler will probably not be nearly as good so now you've just replaced Butler with Herro, cool, now what, how are you replacing Herro just to get back where you are now? This isn't a rebuilding team; this is a team trying to win a championship which I thought was Miami's #1 priority. Not many teams have the luxury of only going in 80% and winning a championship (by not making the team as strong as it could be that particular season), you usually have to go in 100%.
Here's an interesting wrinkle, Herro is extension eligible after this summer, he's already talked about him being as good as some of the younger stars in the league so you have to know he's wanting a max, do you offer that to him or do you possibly upset him by undercutting him or making him wait another year and have him possibly mad at the franchise.
I would suggest you do what I do, go to NBA.com a day or 2 after the game, go to the box scores of the games and click on a player's FGA and watch every single field goal attempt, look at the defense, look at the moves and look at the shots. People seem to only remember things that stick out like a great move (which Herro does) and kind of forgets the rest of the shots.
I'm actually really interested with Herro, he looks smooth, he works hard, if given much room can make teams pay but what really bothers me is that he goes for the flash over the substance way too often. I first really took noticed of it in the finals, the finals and he still couldn't stop himself and it keeps happening. Also, the screwing up easy passes pushes me more to the flash over substance because he seems to lose focus when making the normal passe from time to time, he's got way more skill to screw those up. Whoever gives him a big contract could be in a bad situation as he'll have the power to do whatever he wants with that big contract backing him. If he were shooting nearly 60% TS% it's one thing to live with a player like that but he's not.
Just go back and look at that picture from Portland I posted, at that time a WINABLE game on the road up by a couple of points late and he pulls up from 27 feet with not one other teammate with him basically throwing away a valuable possession. To me it's like watching Westbrook who can be awesome make the wrong play once again, both have high level egos and think they're the best option way too often.
Those are all coachable fixes. It is all about basement and ceiling for a player like this. The ceiling for Tyler is a Booker type offensive player who can win you a series on his own in the playoffs. With continued growth and good coaching his basement is 5 out of 41 games he stinks it up. I still believe patience and continued coaching is the answer.
So when the announcers mention that Spoelstra and Herro sat down and went over his bad shot selection then that game he jacks up a 1 on 4 27 foot jumper in the 4th on a close road game that leads you to believe he's coachable? This has been happening for a couple of years now. Nah, he's got some Westbrook in him but it's probably also the reason he's where he currently is in the NBA.
Who knows, although I understand he's talented and works hard, it's year 3 of still doing the same things he's just getting to shoot the ball more.
If we had Westbrook as a 21 year old do you think he would be the same player he is now? No way, he would be much more disciplined and probably would have won a championship at some point in his career.
Those are all coachable fixes. It is all about basement and ceiling for a player like this. The ceiling for Tyler is a Booker type offensive player who can win you a series on his own in the playoffs. With continued growth and good coaching his basement is 5 out of 41 games he stinks it up. I still believe patience and continued coaching is the answer.
So when the announcers mention that Spoelstra and Herro sat down and went over his bad shot selection then that game he jacks up a 1 on 4 27 foot jumper in the 4th on a close road game that leads you to believe he's coachable? This has been happening for a couple of years now. Nah, he's got some Westbrook in him but it's probably also the reason he's where he currently is in the NBA.
Who knows, although I understand he's talented and works hard, it's year 3 of still doing the same things he's just getting to shoot the ball more.
If we had Westbrook as a 21 year old do you think he would be the same player he is now? No way, he would be much more disciplined and probably would have won a championship at some point in his career.
Wait, the guy after 2 years of coming off the bench says he should be grouped with the likes of Luka Doncic, Trae Young, and Ja Morant as possible future stars? I don't see that mentality going to go away until he's had to humble himself which won't be happening in Miami.
AirP. wrote:So when the announcers mention that Spoelstra and Herro sat down and went over his bad shot selection then that game he jacks up a 1 on 4 27 foot jumper in the 4th on a close road game that leads you to believe he's coachable? This has been happening for a couple of years now. Nah, he's got some Westbrook in him but it's probably also the reason he's where he currently is in the NBA.
Who knows, although I understand he's talented and works hard, it's year 3 of still doing the same things he's just getting to shoot the ball more.
If we had Westbrook as a 21 year old do you think he would be the same player he is now? No way, he would be much more disciplined and probably would have won a championship at some point in his career.
Wait, the guy after 2 years of coming off the bench says he should be grouped with the likes of Luka Doncic, Trae Young, and Ja Morant as possible future stars? Nah, that mentality isn't going to go away until he's had to humble himself which won't be happening in Miami.
Respectfully disagree. if Jimmy, PJ, and UD aren't keeping him humble then you don't realize the value of our veterans. I guarantee that Jimmy has gone at him in practice plenty of times and shut him down. I am sure UD has given him a few hard lessons as well in practice. He is in the perfect place. This talk of him being a future star is just a young puppy trying to assert himself as an alpha. The difference is on this team of veterans we have true alphas to calm him down. It's a process, he will get there I am sure of that, and with the Heat he has the best opportunity to be the player we can be proud of. There will obviously be a few bumps in the road.
If we had Westbrook as a 21 year old do you think he would be the same player he is now? No way, he would be much more disciplined and probably would have won a championship at some point in his career.
Wait, the guy after 2 years of coming off the bench says he should be grouped with the likes of Luka Doncic, Trae Young, and Ja Morant as possible future stars? Nah, that mentality isn't going to go away until he's had to humble himself which won't be happening in Miami.
Respectfully disagree. if Jimmy, PJ, and UD aren't keeping him humble then you don't realize the value of our veterans. I guarantee that Jimmy has gone at him in practice plenty of times and shut him down. I am sure UD has given him a few hard lessons as well in practice. He is in the perfect place. This talk of him being a future star is just a young puppy trying to assert himself as an alpha. The difference is on this team of veterans we have true alphas to calm him down. It's a process, he will get there I am sure of that, and with the Heat he has the best opportunity to be the player we can be proud of. There will obviously be a few bumps in the road.
Jimmy and Herro seemed to be close Herro's rookie year, not so much since then.
The perfect place? A HOF coach tells him he's had bad shot selection in a film session and the next game puts up a 1 on 4 27-footer in a close game in the 4th on the road and Herro backers just ignore that. Not a heat check, not a what the hell the games out of hand shot but a close 4th quarter game on the road WHILE he's having a poor shooting night. It's one thing to miss an open 3, that's understandable but to basically flush a possession down the toilet by doing that is just bad, it's plays like that which has made his ORTG is 2nd worst on the team (only to Garrett). League average for ORTG is 109.8 and Herro is under that at 103 while 14 of the 19 players on the Miami roster are above league average.
AirP. wrote:Wait, the guy after 2 years of coming off the bench says he should be grouped with the likes of Luka Doncic, Trae Young, and Ja Morant as possible future stars? Nah, that mentality isn't going to go away until he's had to humble himself which won't be happening in Miami.
Respectfully disagree. if Jimmy, PJ, and UD aren't keeping him humble then you don't realize the value of our veterans. I guarantee that Jimmy has gone at him in practice plenty of times and shut him down. I am sure UD has given him a few hard lessons as well in practice. He is in the perfect place. This talk of him being a future star is just a young puppy trying to assert himself as an alpha. The difference is on this team of veterans we have true alphas to calm him down. It's a process, he will get there I am sure of that, and with the Heat he has the best opportunity to be the player we can be proud of. There will obviously be a few bumps in the road.
Jimmy and Herro seemed to be close Herro's rookie year, not so much since then.
The perfect place? A HOF coach tells him he's had bad shot selection in a film session and the next game puts up a 1 on 4 27-footer in a close game in the 4th on the road and Herro backers just ignore that. Not a heat check, not a what the hell the games out of hand shot but a close 4th quarter game on the road WHILE he's having a poor shooting night. It's one thing to miss an open 3, that's understandable but to basically flush a possession down the toilet by doing that is just bad, it's plays like that which has made his ORTG is 2nd worst on the team (only to Garrett).
Whatever they said to him or did behind closed doors worked because the next game he comes out and puts up an incredible performance against the #1 team in the league right now who had all of their weapons. This proves he is coachable.
Respectfully disagree. if Jimmy, PJ, and UD aren't keeping him humble then you don't realize the value of our veterans. I guarantee that Jimmy has gone at him in practice plenty of times and shut him down. I am sure UD has given him a few hard lessons as well in practice. He is in the perfect place. This talk of him being a future star is just a young puppy trying to assert himself as an alpha. The difference is on this team of veterans we have true alphas to calm him down. It's a process, he will get there I am sure of that, and with the Heat he has the best opportunity to be the player we can be proud of. There will obviously be a few bumps in the road.
Jimmy and Herro seemed to be close Herro's rookie year, not so much since then.
The perfect place? A HOF coach tells him he's had bad shot selection in a film session and the next game puts up a 1 on 4 27-footer in a close game in the 4th on the road and Herro backers just ignore that. Not a heat check, not a what the hell the games out of hand shot but a close 4th quarter game on the road WHILE he's having a poor shooting night. It's one thing to miss an open 3, that's understandable but to basically flush a possession down the toilet by doing that is just bad, it's plays like that which has made his ORTG is 2nd worst on the team (only to Garrett).
Whatever they said to him or did behind closed doors worked because the next game he comes out and puts up an incredible performance against the #1 team in the league right now who had all of their weapons. This proves he is coachable.
Oh, making shots makes him coachable? That logic means Westbrook has been coachable a lot in his career.
BTW... that talk with Spoelstra happened before the PORTLAND game where he went 5 of 23, one of the announcers mentioned it during the game which is why I keep pointing out that horrible 1 on 4 27 foot pull up jumper late in the 4th, it happened right after talking about his bad shot selection.
Even with all this I say about Herro, I'm fine with him as a scoring 6th man because when the roster is whole Spoelstra can throttle him in minutes if he's not being productive. I have no problem saying he's talented and has the ability to put up a lot of points, I just don't trust him to make the logical/right play.
Player A: 22/3/3 on 53% TS (96 TS+) with 42/36/83 shooting splits, 103 ORTG, .035 WS/48, -1.9 BPM
Player B: 17/4/3 on 51% TS (94 TS+) with 42/40/79 shooting splits, 103 ORTG, .076 WS/48, -0.4 BPM
Player C: 21/5/4 on 54% TS (96 TS+) with 43/39/87 shooting splits, 103 ORTG, .060 WS/48, -0.5 BPM
Most probably realize that Player C is Herro this year after his first actual offseason in the NBA, so what I consider to be essentially the equivalent of a 2nd year under normal circumstances. Player A is 2nd year Devin Booker, Player B is 2nd year Bradley Beal. All of their advanced stats are bad, but that's the nature of coming into the NBA with this player profile of volume scoring 2 guard. It's a very difficult role to come in and be efficient at early on. Beal's #s look the best here by a slight margin over Herro -- in no small part because he wasn't tasked with the volume of Herro or Booker -- but it still took Beal until year 5 to finally break out as a future allstar; he had yet to eclipse a 103 ORTG, .085 WS/48 or 0.3 BPM prior to that
These scoring 2s need a few years to get acclimated because scoring efficiently is the single most difficult thing to do in the NBA. Now if your argument for moving Herro is to better fit Yimmy/Lowry's timeline then that's reasonable, however you better damn well make sure you're getting a legit 2022 allstar caliber player in return who's ready to step in and push you into top 3 title favorite territory. Not that I'm saying they're available as trade targets, but guys still in their prime like what Khris Middleton and Jrue Holiday were for Milwaukee last season. I'd even settle for a guy on the cusp of his prime like Jaylen Brown, but giving up on Herro would require this level of return in order for this irrelevant Heat fan to be on board
