Game 17: Packers at Lions - Noon - FOX

[RubberSoul]

At this point Love isn’t worth the gamble of moving on from a few more seasons of MVP Rodgers. He just hasn’t shown enough and the coaches have seen him have #1 starter reps for weeks now in practice so they know what he looks like in practice. We obviously don’t but organization will be able to make an informed decision. He may end up being great but I’d prefer not to take that gamble.

Love’s two interceptions makes me appreciate Rodgers aversion to interceptions even more. Somehow Rodgers is able to avoid even those random tipped ball at d line interceptions. He’s just so damn smart at football it would be hard to move on and watch an inexperienced QB.

In the end it’s not solely the organization’s decision so we may end up with Love going forward anyways.


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[Finn]

I just can't reconcile how a 3rd-year college starter picked in the first round of the draft could have 20 TD's and 17 INT's against the schedule Utah State played. We routinely kill Mertz for tearing up bad teams and playing poorly against really good ones, but Love was posting essentially the same overall efficiency while only playing bad teams - and nobody is talking about drafting Mertz in the friggin' first round. Actual production and performance has to counterbalance perceived upside and tools. Granted, Love's sophomore year was great, but a glimpse of their schedule that year shows basically a whole bunch of teams like the ones Mertz routinely has a similar rating against, or even much better (244 against Rutgers, for example).

There's plenty of evidence that his ball placement is not even remotely NFL-caliber, and it's NOT just based on limited NFL game action. Also, it's a total strawman to say that people are writing him off completely. Nobody is guaranteeing that he will be bad. Saying you wouldn't bet on him is not the same thing, so stop saying that. And saying you would trade him for a mid-round pick is just another way of saying you would not bet on him being decent. Of course nobody knows for sure that he will be bad (or good), and that should go without saying. It's not at all insightful to interject that into the debate and imply that others are doing so.

I don't recall all of the specifics but didn't he lose his entire OL & WRs? And the coach stunk? Look at his prior season. I'd guess that's primarily why he was rated highly.

[LUKE23]

How many situations legitimately give Rodgers a better chance to win than here? I know some will argue the Love pick is the primary reason for Rodger's ascension, but I will argue it's been MLF's play calling, the offensive line coaching, and the ability to run the ball along with AR's amazing accuracy that has turned this offense into a hyper-efficient machine than never turns the ball over.

We will lose some defensive pieces, but still will have Clark, Gary, Jaire, Savage, Stokes to build off of.

I think a TON has changed since the beginning of this off-season. I think Rodgers wants to be back and the Packers will make it happen. I would be trading Love for the best pick we can get and moving on, drafting another QB in maybe 2023 or 2024 depending on how Rodgers looks.

And one last caveat, Rodgers is a douche, but you don't get rid of all-timers based on their COVID theories or their attitudes toward management if they are still playing at HOF level. This isn't a popularity contest, the goal is to win Super Bowls.

[coolhandluke121]

I don't recall all of the specifics but didn't he lose his entire OL & WRs? And the coach stunk? Look at his prior season. I'd guess that's primarily why he was rated highly.

I don't know all the specifics either, but Mertz had a pretty awful supporting cast too, at least beyond Ferguson and Allen. And he consistently played against much better teams. I can't imagine Love's offensive supporting cast, relative to the defenses they played against, was any worse than Mertz's, again relative to the defense the Badgers played against. And couldn't your statement also be construed as an argument that the supporting cast carried Love the year before?

In any case, to draft a QB in the first round from a program like that, given the fact that they rarely play against any NFL talent on defense, I expect them to at least put up decent numbers regardless of supporting cast. I'm not as attached to disliking Love as some might think, nor am I making some kind of ironclad guarantee that he won't be good, but right now I have little reason to believe he can throw with accuracy at an NFL level.

[Ayt]

How many situations legitimately give Rodgers a better chance to win than here? I know some will argue the Love pick is the primary reason for Rodger's ascension, but I will argue it's been MLF's play calling, the offensive line coaching, and the ability to run the ball along with AR's amazing accuracy that has turned this offense into a hyper-efficient machine than never turns the ball over.

We will lose some defensive pieces, but still will have Clark, Gary, Jaire, Savage, Stokes to build off of.

I think a TON has changed since the beginning of this off-season. I think Rodgers wants to be back and the Packers will make it happen. I would be trading Love for the best pick we can get and moving on, drafting another QB in maybe 2023 or 2024 depending on how Rodgers looks.

And one last caveat, Rodgers is a douche, but you don't get rid of all-timers based on their COVID theories or their attitudes toward management if they are still playing at HOF level. This isn't a popularity contest, the goal is to win Super Bowls.

I don't see him going anywhere.

[Treebeard]

^^^ I think how the team does in the playoffs will also be a big factor. If they go to the SB AND Rogers wants to come back that's one thing. If they bellyflop, then this could spin out any number of ways.

[Ron Swanson]

I still don't know why the hell you have this contingent of people that say you need to trade Love in the offseason. Like uh......why? And no, him throwing passes to guys like Tyler Davis and Juwann Winfree doesn't really tell me anything about the guy, good or bad. I do have to chuckle at the Rodgers revisionism though. I was at that Patriots game in 2006, and if anyone tries to say that Rodgers "showed flashes" at any point before that 2007 Dallas game, then you're a straight up liar. Don't @ me with that BS.

[PintSizedBox10]

^^^ I think how the team does in the playoffs will also be a big factor. If they go to the SB AND Rogers wants to come back that's one thing. If they bellyflop, then this could spin out any number of ways.

I'm in the same boat. If they win it all lets do everything possible to run it back. If not, then let the Love era begin.

[Profound23]

I still don't know why the hell you have this contingent of people that say you need to trade Love in the offseason. Like uh......why? And no, him throwing passes to guys like Tyler Davis and Juwann Winfree doesn't really tell me anything about the guy, good or bad. I do have to chuckle at the Rodgers revisionism though. I was at that Patriots game in 2006, and if anyone tries to say that Rodgers "showed flashes" at any point before that 2007 Dallas game, then you're a straight up liar. Don't @ me with that BS.

And the thing is, it's not just that Patriots game. He looked horrible in every preseason game and family night/open practices. THROWING TO DONALD DRIVER, GREG JENNINGS, and JAMES JONES. In family night they literally schemed open wide receivers and Rodgers underthrew balls so bad they bounced five yards in front of the receiver......and he had no pressure in his face. McCarthy was doing everything possible to allow Rodgers to make a play but he couldn't do it. Everyone hated Rodgers so much that Rodgers had to literally say something like "I don't care what they think of me. Either get on my train, or stay off of it."

I don't understand the extremes here. It's very simple to say "Love could be Brett Hundley.....he could be the next Aaron....or (more than likely) somewhere in between." Enjoy the playoffs and let's see what happens next.

Also, the same for Amari Rodgers. I don't like what I have seen so far......but the first two years of Davante Adams and most Packer fans wanted him cut too. Can we at least give these guys three years before we write them off? Is that too difficult?

[Profound23]

^^^ I think how the team does in the playoffs will also be a big factor. If they go to the SB AND Rogers wants to come back that's one thing. If they bellyflop, then this could spin out any number of ways.

I'm in the same boat. If they win it all lets do everything possible to run it back. If not, then let the Love era begin.

There is always a third option.

We win (or lose), Rodgers decides to retire......and boy everyone is glad that we drafted a QB so we don't have to decide between Mike Glennon and Nick Foles.

[WeekapaugGroove]

^^^ I think how the team does in the playoffs will also be a big factor. If they go to the SB AND Rogers wants to come back that's one thing. If they bellyflop, then this could spin out any number of ways.

I'm in the same boat. If they win it all lets do everything possible to run it back. If not, then let the Love era begin.

I kind of feel like this is how it plays out. I know everything seems great between Rodgers and the team now but if they lose one of the next two weeks Rodgers might simply want to try it someplace else. Especially considering the Packers cap situation.

If they win a Superbowl I'd be shocked if he wasn't back. Going to the Superbowl and losing that game I could see it go either way. Lose in the playoffs and I'd actually be kind of surprised if he returns.

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[Ron Swanson]

I think there's a non-zero chance that we win the Super Bowl and Rodgers retires.

[Reddeye]

Read on Twitter

I believe Rodgers really likes Hackett. I told my brother last week that Rodgers got word to the Broncos to fire their head coach and hire Hackett. Then he would force a trade there.

Hopefully the Packers can keep a hold of Stenavich. Any chance MLF could get his brother to Green Bay if Hackett leaves?

[WeekapaugGroove]

I think there's a non-zero chance that we win the Super Bowl and Rodgers retires.

I don't really buy his retirement talk in general, I think he just threw that out there to remind the Packers he has some leverage.

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[Finn]

I don't know all the specifics either, but Mertz had a pretty awful supporting cast too, at least beyond Ferguson and Allen. And he consistently played against much better teams. I can't imagine Love's offensive supporting cast, relative to the defenses they played against, was any worse than Mertz's, again relative to the defense the Badgers played against. And couldn't your statement also be construed as an argument that the supporting cast carried Love the year before?

In any case, to draft a QB in the first round from a program like that, given the fact that they rarely play against any NFL talent on defense, I expect them to at least put up decent numbers regardless of supporting cast. I'm not as attached to disliking Love as some might think, nor am I making some kind of ironclad guarantee that he won't be good, but right now I have little reason to believe he can throw with accuracy at an NFL level.

I don't follow WI so I don't know anything about Mertz.

RE the supporting cast, I'd posit that going from competent to incompetent would affect the QB play. And I think that's what happened. His '19 numbers don't look that much worse than his '18 other than the TD/Int ratio.

Passing Stats

[MickeyDavis]

Read on Twitter

I believe Rodgers really likes Hackett. I told my brother last week that Rodgers got word to the Broncos to fire their head coach and hire Hackett. Then he would force a trade there.

Hopefully the Packers can keep a hold of Stenavich. Any chance MLF could get his brother to Green Bay if Hackett leaves?

Fits the narrative that the Broncos will go hard after Rodgers if we trade him.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I have two hot takes

1. The st brown boys have a kinda hot mom, especially for an older woman.

2. Jordan love is kinda meh.

The whole 'St.' Brown deal is pretty weird/interesting. Their dad has a little LaVar Ball in him.

I'd add a number 3, Amari Rodgers is shockingly bad. Been shockingly bad since day 1.

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[th87]

I still don't know why the hell you have this contingent of people that say you need to trade Love in the offseason. Like uh......why? And no, him throwing passes to guys like Tyler Davis and Juwann Winfree doesn't really tell me anything about the guy, good or bad. I do have to chuckle at the Rodgers revisionism though. I was at that Patriots game in 2006, and if anyone tries to say that Rodgers "showed flashes" at any point before that 2007 Dallas game, then you're a straight up liar. Don't @ me with that BS.

And the thing is, it's not just that Patriots game. He looked horrible in every preseason game and family night/open practices. THROWING TO DONALD DRIVER, GREG JENNINGS, and JAMES JONES. In family night they literally schemed open wide receivers and Rodgers underthrew balls so bad they bounced five yards in front of the receiver......and he had no pressure in his face. McCarthy was doing everything possible to allow Rodgers to make a play but he couldn't do it. Everyone hated Rodgers so much that Rodgers had to literally say something like "I don't care what they think of me. Either get on my train, or stay off of it."

I don't understand the extremes here. It's very simple to say "Love could be Brett Hundley.....he could be the next Aaron....or (more than likely) somewhere in between." Enjoy the playoffs and let's see what happens next.

Also, the same for Amari Rodgers. I don't like what I have seen so far......but the first two years of Davante Adams and most Packer fans wanted him cut too. Can we at least give these guys three years before we write them off? Is that too difficult?

People were idiots on Adams, and I thought so then. He only had a drops problem his second year, but it was clear from day 1 that his route running/feet were awesome. Amari Rodgers isn't even showing 10% of what Adams showed from the get-go.

I can't think of very many "homegrown" players who didn't do anything and then came on out of nowhere. Tonyan maybe? Almost every good such player we have showed something or other early (and some showed early and then regressed). And so many we've seen where we wait for them to break out and they never do (e.g. Burks).

Regarding Aaron Rodgers, those clips you show display his monster arm and athleticism. Love doesn't have that. Plus Rodgers had a reputation for being accurate out of college, so inaccuracy in 2005/6 could be excused a little as being due to something else (you don't just randomly forget how to hit your targets). Love has had accuracy issues in college and has them now. Unlike Rodgers, he has to build something he never had, rather than finding what he temporarily lost. And really, you're counting a rookie Jennings as a reliable target for Rodgers in 2006? Jones wasn't even on the team until 2007, and Rodgers had really started to ascend by then.

[Ron Swanson]

Pretty massive difference between learning how to play QB in the NFL vs. learning how to play WR, so let's not equate the two situations here. Love has all the physical tools/arm talent to eventually be great, which is what makes the dumping on him so premature. But it's pretty clear with Amari Rodgers that he just doesn't stand out athletically, and that's basically a death sentence when you're as small as he already is.

[th87]

^^^ I think how the team does in the playoffs will also be a big factor. If they go to the SB AND Rogers wants to come back that's one thing. If they bellyflop, then this could spin out any number of ways.

I'm in the same boat. If they win it all lets do everything possible to run it back. If not, then let the Love era begin.

There is always a third option.

We win (or lose), Rodgers decides to retire......and boy everyone is glad that we drafted a QB so we don't have to decide between Mike Glennon and Nick Foles.

Only if he turns out good. If not, what's the difference bringing in a stopgap for a year, and then drafting a new guy (or trying to get Wilson or Garoppolo or Goff, etc.). If anything, it could even be worse if Love doesn't improve, as we'll end up stuck waiting for him like the Bears were with Trubisky.