2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[jacoby1us]

I will never understand how Lebron is in MVP conversations ahead of Derozan this season. How? The Lakers are barely treading above .500 with five first ballot HOFs on the team.

is derozan even mvp of his own team?

Clearly he is the MVP on the Bulls roster, without him the Bulls would not be at the top of the Eastern Conference.

[Ballerhogger]

Lebron

31.2ppg
8.4rpg
6.8apg
1.6 spg
1.3 bpg

3.0 three's a game
.540 % FG
.79 % FT's
Since Thanksgiving.

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah I'm not really sure how Lebron has shoe-horned his way into the conversation with Giannis & Jokic at all. At least with Jokic the argument is that he's putting up actual great defensive metrics and doing the heavy lifting on both ends despite the Nuggets being a .500 level basketball team. Lakers defense is legitimately awful (6.4 points per-100 worse) with Lebron on the court, and even if you think that the sample size is noisy, you can't find many, if any, metrics that paint him as a clear positive impact defender this season. And no, this doesn't take away from how awesome he's been offensively this year at 37 years old, so Lebron stans can put away the pitchforks...

[jacoby1us]

Lebron

31.2ppg
8.4rpg
6.8apg
1.6 spg
1.3 bpg

3.0 three's a game
.540 % FG
.79 % FT's
Since Thanksgiving.

And over that stretch the Lakers are 11-10 with a five game losing streak. Most of their wins are against teams that are not even .500.

[Ballerhogger]

Lebron

31.2ppg
8.4rpg
6.8apg
1.6 spg
1.3 bpg

3.0 three's a game
.540 % FG
.79 % FT's
Since Thanksgiving.

And over that stretch the Lakers are 11-10 with a five game losing streak. Most of their wins are against teams that are not even .500.

he put up 35 against memphis last night whats your point? I already said the team not good enough for him win the mvp this year but we should at least knowledge what hes doing in year 19

[Ballerhogger]

Yeah I'm not really sure how Lebron has shoe-horned his way into the conversation with Giannis & Jokic at all. At least with Jokic the argument is that he's putting up actual great defensive metrics and doing the heavy lifting on both ends despite the Nuggets being a .500 level basketball team. Lakers defense is legitimately awful (6.4 points per-100 worse) with Lebron on the court, and even if you think that the sample size is noisy, you can't find many, if any, metrics that paint him as a clear positive impact defender this season. And no, this doesn't take away from how awesome he's been offensively this year at 37 years old, so Lebron stans can put away the pitchforks...

They play in few days but lebron offensivley is having a great year regardless and the only reason were in the playoffs right now. Is he behind jokic and others certainly.

[jacoby1us]

Lebron

31.2ppg
8.4rpg
6.8apg
1.6 spg
1.3 bpg

3.0 three's a game
.540 % FG
.79 % FT's
Since Thanksgiving.

And over that stretch the Lakers are 11-10 with a five game losing streak. Most of their wins are against teams that are not even .500.

he put up 35 against memphis last night whats your point? I already said the team not good enough for him win the mvp this year but we should at least knowledge what hes doing in year 19

If you failed to understand the point of winning basketball games I cannot help you. Yes, Lebron is playing pretty damn good for this to be his 19th year in the NBA but his ability to lead the Lakers to a winning record is not up to par with a ton of help that he requested. Please don't say he doesn't have the help he requires, Lebron literally was handed every single player on that roster and its not working out for him. Not to mention they have five first ballot HOFs on this roster already, regardless of their ages.

MVP Rankings for me:
1) Curry - Golden St.
2) Jokic- Nuggets
3) Derozan - Bulls
4) Durant - Nets
5) Giannis - Bucks

[Ballerhogger]

And over that stretch the Lakers are 11-10 with a five game losing streak. Most of their wins are against teams that are not even .500.

he put up 35 against memphis last night whats your point? I already said the team not good enough for him win the mvp this year but we should at least knowledge what hes doing in year 19

If you failed to understand the point of winning basketball games I cannot help you. Yes, Lebron is playing pretty damn good for this to be his 19th year in the NBA but his ability to lead the Lakers to a winning record is not up to par with a ton of help that he requested. Please don't say he doesn't have the help he requires, Lebron literally was handed every single player on that roster and its not working out for him. Not to mention they have five first ballot HOFs on this roster already, regardless of their ages.

MVP Rankings for me:
1) Curry - Golden St.
2) Jokic- Nuggets
3) Derozan - Bulls
4) Durant - Nets
5) Giannis - Bucks

The hate for lebron in this thread is ridiclous you didnt even read what i wrote. You can have curry ahead lebron and everyone else on this list.. That's fair and understandable. Im pointing out what kind of year Lebron is having offensively is mvp type of year. That's all. DeRozan probably not going mentioned since zach has been playing just well as of late.

[jokeboy86]

I have no problem if someone wants to add Ja now to the discussion.

[Ballerhogger]

I have no problem if someone wants to add Ja now to the discussion.

how he does against warriors coming up will help or nullify his case going forward this month

[jacoby1us]

he put up 35 against memphis last night whats your point? I already said the team not good enough for him win the mvp this year but we should at least knowledge what hes doing in year 19

If you failed to understand the point of winning basketball games I cannot help you. Yes, Lebron is playing pretty damn good for this to be his 19th year in the NBA but his ability to lead the Lakers to a winning record is not up to par with a ton of help that he requested. Please don't say he doesn't have the help he requires, Lebron literally was handed every single player on that roster and its not working out for him. Not to mention they have five first ballot HOFs on this roster already, regardless of their ages.

MVP Rankings for me:
1) Curry - Golden St.
2) Jokic- Nuggets
3) Derozan - Bulls
4) Durant - Nets
5) Giannis - Bucks

The hate for lebron in this thread is ridiclous you didnt even read what i wrote. You can have curry ahead lebron and everyone else on this list.. That's fair and understandable. Im pointing out what kind of year Lebron is having offensively is mvp type of year. That's all. DeRozan probably not going mentioned since zach has been playing just well as of late.

No hate, no bias either.
Lebron just doesn't deserve to be in the top tier of the MVP race before the others listed.
Take a step back, breathe, relax and drink some tea young fella.

[cpower]

It's all about the on/off. Curry Jokic DD leading the way.

[SeattleJazzFan]

It's all about the on/off. Curry Jokic DD leading the way.

maybe it should be. but that's not reality in terms of mvp voting. other advanced stats and even traditional stats speak loudly in the minds of voters.

[MindState]

If the Warriors hold onto the #1 seed by the end of the season and Curry is putting up at least 28 PPG. I think he wins is pretty easily. Being the best player on the best team while putting up top 5 PPG and while missing key pieces like Klay is a big deal and the media will credit that, and likely ignore Curry's big slump.

[NyKnicks1714]

I find it crazy that LeBron is scoring more efficiently than both Giannis and Curry. LAL would need to finish with close to 50 wins for LeBron to have a real shot though.

he's also more efficient than durant, ftr.

Just crazy. There's a good chance it won't remain that way, but nobody would have thought he'd be a more efficient scorer than those three guys halfway through the season.

[gottamakeit]

Lebron

31.2ppg
8.4rpg
6.8apg
1.6 spg
1.3 bpg

3.0 three's a game
.540 % FG
.79 % FT's
Since Thanksgiving.

What's their record in that stretch of games?
Is is unfair to posit "empty stats player" unto Lebron? That term is thrown unfairly thrown at so many players on poorly performing teams.

[Ballerhogger]

Lebron

31.2ppg
8.4rpg
6.8apg
1.6 spg
1.3 bpg

3.0 three's a game
.540 % FG
.79 % FT's
Since Thanksgiving.

What's their record in that stretch of games?
Is is unfair to posit "empty stats player" unto Lebron? That term is thrown unfairly thrown at so many players on poorly performing teams.

it takes team win in this league curry has been terrible this month and dec yet the warriors are in 1st

[MaNs]

I find it deconcerning that Curry's fans disregard almost all of the stats and any serious observation of the game to promote Curry as an MVP, instead of an analysis they presente us with obscure context-based stats and poetry on Currys game. I would say that they remind me of Kobe's fans when they tried to argue around 2010 that Kobe was still better than Lebron. Though, they had a better case and were more reasonable as Kobe was much closer to Lebron statistically than Curry is to Jokic and Giannis right now. Also kobe had the reputation of a better defender and leader than Lebron at the point.
Anyway, if it is to give to Curry for gravity and team record(the only serious argument in his favor) I propose to give it to Chris Paul as a carreer accomplishment. And let's make some poetry as good Chris Paul fans. If Curry has gravity then Chris Paul have the "eye of the tiger". Just by the look in his eyes he puts fear in the opponents. Don't believe in PPG, RPG, PER, BPM, WS and the like. They don't account for Chris Paul's eye of the tiger. Why do you think that Suns got good defence? Do you think that Ayton, Crowder and Bridges are a potent defensive frontcourt? You are mistaken. They are bums. It's Chris Paul's eye of the tiger that does the work, even when he is in the perimeter the opponent will lose a lay-up because he fears Chris Paul. On offense? Will you tell me that the whole Suns team is potent offensively? No, it's all Chris Paul - the opponents are trembling of Chris Paul's eye of the tiger when Booker makes an easy 3. What do you say realgm? Curry's gravity or Chris Paul's eye of the tiger.
In a more serious note now I think that this is a rare year for MVP award as the most productive players play in teams with many problems ( mostly injuries) and they don't have formidable records.The best teams are teams who are winning as teams thanks to the sheer number of good players they have and their top players don't stand out. For the moment I think GIannis is the frontrunner as he has the best combination of impact and record of all the top players, followed by Durant and Jokic. If the Bucks continue to have injury problems and keep losing games maybe he falls off . Durant is a strong candidate and maybe Embid becomes one. For Curry to win it he will have to play really well (as he did in the beginning of the year) for the rest of the way.

P.S - BTW I agree that Curry has "gravity" in the sense that he attracts defenders in the perimeter. But all great players have such advantages. For example Embid destroys small teams(many teams in the league), Gobert shuts down the post and Giannis and Jokic offer a unique combination of skills.

[mediocrityrules]

I'm more than happy to bring Ja into discussions. I feel as though right now there are only 7 players in contention, and i can't see anyone outside this group being in contention. In no particular order: -

Giannis
KD
DeRozan
Jokic
Curry
Lebron
Ja

If Denver can't break away from .500 then Jokic slides away, regardless of individual play. He is beset by the same issue that Lebron has, in that team record isn't likely to be good enough. Lebron is also fading in the conversation as the Lakers continue to struggle against +.500 teams. He is showing that his awesome offensive season is in part undone by his ordinary defensive one.

Having said that, I feel as though being a top 4 seed in either conference is going to be enough team record-wise to be a contender for MVP, considering that it's a discussion between so many this year, which it hasn't been in a while.

edit: make that 8. I can't believe i forgot Embiid!!!

[gottamakeit]

Lebron

31.2ppg
8.4rpg
6.8apg
1.6 spg
1.3 bpg

3.0 three's a game
.540 % FG
.79 % FT's
Since Thanksgiving.

What's their record in that stretch of games?
Is is unfair to posit "empty stats player" unto Lebron? That term is thrown unfairly thrown at so many players on poorly performing teams.

it takes team win in this league curry has been terrible this month and dec yet the warriors are in 1st

For the record, I personally don't have Curry higher than 4th in my MVP rankings.
Curry, even while playing poorly on the metrics, helps his team with his gravity.