Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 4.0

[SixersSince82]

Philly in: Collins, McCollum
Philly out: Simmons, Harris, 1st

Hawks in: Simmons
Hawks out: Collins, asset

Blazers in: Harris, Philly 1st, Hawks asset
Blazers out: McCollum

What does that asset need to be? Is it as simple as sending the Philly first to Atlanta and sending Reddish to Portland?

I like Collins a lot but Simmons is better than him. The 1st should come from ATL not from PHL, at least imo. Essentially, Collins and a 1st for Simmons then the 6rs attach that first to Tobias to acquire CJ.

[BoogieTime]

The user bpcox05 (or who I believe to be bpcox05) on another forum explained what I have been saying since the summer, Hali/Mitchell is a fitting backcourt long term, and Fox looks the man out


Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.1 Net Rtg (112.2 Off Rtg & 115.3 Def Rtg over 699 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -11.7 Net Rtg (106.3 Off Rtg & 118.0 Def Rtg over 340 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +0.9 Net Rtg (103.0 Off Rtg & 102.1 Def Rtg over 350 minutes)

I think we can all admit that Fox had a pretty slow start to the season and starting to get back to normal at the beginning of December. Below is the same on/off stats as I posted above except I have filtered on the date range 12/1-1/9:

Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.5 Net Rtg (111.9 Off Rtg & 115.4 Def Rtg over 289 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -4.5 Net Rtg (113.0 Off Rtg & 117.5 Def Rtg over 104 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +2.5 Net Rtg (110.8 Off Rtg & 108.3 Def Rtg over 154 minutes)

In both cases, it indicates that Haliburton/Mitchell is the most impactful young guard pairing we have despite Fox coming back around as of late.


Fox's value is down, so I'm not seeing the move in the near future. The Hali/Mitchell pair is why I advocated for the Fox / Simmons trade since summer.

I'm still a fan of Davion despite his efficiency issues this season

[Godaddycurse]

The user bpcox05 (or who I believe to be bpcox05) on another forum explained what I have been saying since the summer, Hali/Mitchell is a fitting backcourt long term, and Fox looks the man out


Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.1 Net Rtg (112.2 Off Rtg & 115.3 Def Rtg over 699 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -11.7 Net Rtg (106.3 Off Rtg & 118.0 Def Rtg over 340 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +0.9 Net Rtg (103.0 Off Rtg & 102.1 Def Rtg over 350 minutes)

I think we can all admit that Fox had a pretty slow start to the season and starting to get back to normal at the beginning of December. Below is the same on/off stats as I posted above except I have filtered on the date range 12/1-1/9:

Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.5 Net Rtg (111.9 Off Rtg & 115.4 Def Rtg over 289 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -4.5 Net Rtg (113.0 Off Rtg & 117.5 Def Rtg over 104 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +2.5 Net Rtg (110.8 Off Rtg & 108.3 Def Rtg over 154 minutes)

In both cases, it indicates that Haliburton/Mitchell is the most impactful young guard pairing we have despite Fox coming back around as of late.


Fox's value is down, so I'm not seeing the move in the near future. The Hali/Mitchell pair is why I advocated for the Fox / Simmons trade since summer.

I'm still a fan of Davion despite his efficiency issues this season

isnt this skewed by hali/mitchell playing mostly vs other teams' backups

[BoogieTime]

The user bpcox05 (or who I believe to be bpcox05) on another forum explained what I have been saying since the summer, Hali/Mitchell is a fitting backcourt long term, and Fox looks the man out


Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.1 Net Rtg (112.2 Off Rtg & 115.3 Def Rtg over 699 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -11.7 Net Rtg (106.3 Off Rtg & 118.0 Def Rtg over 340 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +0.9 Net Rtg (103.0 Off Rtg & 102.1 Def Rtg over 350 minutes)

I think we can all admit that Fox had a pretty slow start to the season and starting to get back to normal at the beginning of December. Below is the same on/off stats as I posted above except I have filtered on the date range 12/1-1/9:

Fox & Haliburton On the Court / Mitchell Off the Court = -3.5 Net Rtg (111.9 Off Rtg & 115.4 Def Rtg over 289 minutes)
Fox & Mitchell On the Court / Haliburton Off the Court = -4.5 Net Rtg (113.0 Off Rtg & 117.5 Def Rtg over 104 minutes)
Haliburton & Mitchell On the Court / Fox Off the Court = +2.5 Net Rtg (110.8 Off Rtg & 108.3 Def Rtg over 154 minutes)

In both cases, it indicates that Haliburton/Mitchell is the most impactful young guard pairing we have despite Fox coming back around as of late.


Fox's value is down, so I'm not seeing the move in the near future. The Hali/Mitchell pair is why I advocated for the Fox / Simmons trade since summer.

I'm still a fan of Davion despite his efficiency issues this season

isnt this skewed by hali/mitchell playing mostly vs other teams' backups

Probably, to a degree, your right. But the overall point stands to some degree

[VCfor3]

Philly in: Collins, McCollum
Philly out: Simmons, Harris, 1st

Hawks in: Simmons
Hawks out: Collins, asset

Blazers in: Harris, Philly 1st, Hawks asset
Blazers out: McCollum

What does that asset need to be? Is it as simple as sending the Philly first to Atlanta and sending Reddish to Portland?

I like Collins a lot but Simmons is better than him. The 1st should come from ATL not from PHL, at least imo. Essentially, Collins and a 1st for Simmons then the 6rs attach that first to Tobias to acquire CJ.

Atlanta is sending out an unspecified asset along with Collins in the OP. Question is what that would actually be. Cam feels like an obvious choice given all the rumors surrounding Atlanta hesitant to give him his next contract.

[Resistance]

The middle tier of the Western Conference is an interesting situation.

NBA Standings

Remaining Schedule Strength (Tankathon)


..........................Remaining.......Schedule...Near Term...Future
..............W/L....Home Games......Difficulty.....Health......Health
Dallas.......22-18.........22...............Easy........Good........Good
Denver......20-18.........25...............Easy........Okay.........Good?
Lakers.......21-20........16..........Really Hard....Okay.........Good?
Minnesota..20-20.........20..............Hard........Good........Good
Clippers.....20-21........16..............Hard.........Poor.........Good?


The parts about the health situations for those teams are going to be somewhat subjective.


Dallas
Doncic is back, so that is key for them.
WCS? Whatever.


Denver For the moment, am I not expecting Murray back this season. Porter is already out for the season, so expecting them to go with what they have.

Murray could be playing by March - April and Porter could be back at the end of the regular season.


Lakers
Nunn is expected to be playing soon. Will go with the idea that means within the next 7 - 10 days. Davis seems to be 10 - 14 days from playing. This season, LeBron has been playing heavy minutes and the NBA is determined to plow ahead with the schedule instead of taking a break and then shifting to a bubble setup. It is unknown how much energy LeBron (37) will have left in this scenario.


Minnesota
They have been getting people back and have played okay.


Clippers
As long as they can tread water until Paul George comes back in early February? they should be able to stay in the 9th position ahead of Sacramento, San Antonio, New Orleans and Portland. If K Leonard is able to come back in late March?, then the playin situation becomes interesting.

[The Rebel]

Denver
For the moment, am I not expecting Murray back this season. Porter is already out for the season, so expecting them to go with what they have.

Chatter around the Nuggets is that both Murray and MPJ might be back this season, they have mentioned it on broadcasts and on Altitude the Nuggets radio station which is owned by the same person. From the sounds of things Murray may be back in a couple of months and MPJ before the playoffs.

[Resistance]

Denver
For the moment, am I not expecting Murray back this season. Porter is already out for the season, so expecting them to go with what they have.

Chatter around the Nuggets is that both Murray and MPJ might be back this season, they have mentioned it on broadcasts and on Altitude the Nuggets radio station which is owned by the same person. From the sounds of things Murray may be back in a couple of months and MPJ before the playoffs.

OK

I used the player profiles at Basketball Reference and they weren't updated with that information.

Porter

Murray


Let me go and do an Edit.

[The Rebel]

Denver
For the moment, am I not expecting Murray back this season. Porter is already out for the season, so expecting them to go with what they have.

Chatter around the Nuggets is that both Murray and MPJ might be back this season, they have mentioned it on broadcasts and on Altitude the Nuggets radio station which is owned by the same person. From the sounds of things Murray may be back in a couple of months and MPJ before the playoffs.

OK

I used the player profiles at Basketball Reference and they weren't updated with that information.

Porter

Murray


Let me go and do an Edit.

Well it is chatter, nothing is official and either one may have a set back, but there is a chance we will see them this season.

[Mamba4Goat]

Philly in: Collins, McCollum
Philly out: Simmons, Harris, 1st

Hawks in: Simmons
Hawks out: Collins, asset

Blazers in: Harris, Philly 1st, Hawks asset
Blazers out: McCollum

What does that asset need to be? Is it as simple as sending the Philly first to Atlanta and sending Reddish to Portland?

I like Collins a lot but Simmons is better than him. The 1st should come from ATL not from PHL, at least imo. Essentially, Collins and a 1st for Simmons then the 6rs attach that first to Tobias to acquire CJ.

Atlanta is sending out an unspecified asset along with Collins in the OP. Question is what that would actually be. Cam feels like an obvious choice given all the rumors surrounding Atlanta hesitant to give him his next contract.

Yeah, I wasn’t sure if Cam+Collins was too much for Simmons but Simmons and a first should definitely be enough. Would ultimately come down to Portland wanting two picks or Cam Reddish in a Harris/McCollum swap (which feels like an overpay).

[JRoy]

Philly in: Collins, McCollum
Philly out: Simmons, Harris, 1st

Hawks in: Simmons
Hawks out: Collins, asset

Blazers in: Harris, Philly 1st, Hawks asset
Blazers out: McCollum

What does that asset need to be? Is it as simple as sending the Philly first to Atlanta and sending Reddish to Portland?

I like Collins a lot but Simmons is better than him. The 1st should come from ATL not from PHL, at least imo. Essentially, Collins and a 1st for Simmons then the 6rs attach that first to Tobias to acquire CJ.

Zero interest in Harris and a late first doesn’t change that.

[Diop]

Would 6ers prefer Hayward over Collins?
I honestly doubt Charlotte do any moves as the team is performing well and Hayward has been an excellent calming influence on this young team, but Collins would fit nicely long term.

[shangrila]

Chatter around the Nuggets is that both Murray and MPJ might be back this season, they have mentioned it on broadcasts and on Altitude the Nuggets radio station which is owned by the same person. From the sounds of things Murray may be back in a couple of months and MPJ before the playoffs.

OK

I used the player profiles at Basketball Reference and they weren't updated with that information.

Porter

Murray


Let me go and do an Edit.

Well it is chatter, nothing is official and either one may have a set back, but there is a chance we will see them this season.

I don't know if they'd be much of a factor even if they do return.

"A couple of months" would be 2 at minimum, no? Which would put Murray's return sometime in March and that's getting into the 60+ in terms of games played. So basically he'd return for a dozen or so games before the playoffs, likely on a minutes restriction and working through a ton of rust.

If MPJ is after that, or even similar, then it's the same; a handful of games where he's working his way back into game shape probably on a minutes restriction.

So for projections I'd assume they're "out".

[The Rebel]

OK

I used the player profiles at Basketball Reference and they weren't updated with that information.

Porter

Murray


Let me go and do an Edit.

Well it is chatter, nothing is official and either one may have a set back, but there is a chance we will see them this season.

I don't know if they'd be much of a factor even if they do return.

"A couple of months" would be 2 at minimum, no? Which would put Murray's return sometime in March and that's getting into the 60+ in terms of games played. So basically he'd return for a dozen or so games before the playoffs, likely on a minutes restriction and working through a ton of rust.

If MPJ is after that, or even similar, then it's the same; a handful of games where he's working his way back into game shape probably on a minutes restriction.

So for projections I'd assume they're "out".

Depends on how rusty they are and when they get back. Murray has been openly lobbying to come back now, he says he is ready but our coaching/training staff and front office is being very cautious with him. The average expected missed time for an ACL is between 8-12 months and it has been 8 months at this point.

MPJ nobody is really talking about other than to say he maybe back by the playoffs.

One of the things that many do not realize is that the Nuggets have an end of the bench game a couple of hours before each game. It is something started years ago when Mike Miller was here and is to help guys stay in game shape even when they are the 13th man. A lot of the veterans have mentioned playing in it while rehabbing so that they do not come back as rusty as others would expect.

[loserX]

Not sure if this is better off in its own thread (fellow mods, please feel free to split off if appropriate!), but Bobby Marks posted a trade deadline primer on ESPN:

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33034686/2022-nba-trade-deadline-watch-potential-deals-all-30-teams

He has a lot of detail, but for the sake of this board he also has suggested trades for most teams:
ATL: Solomon Hill and top-15 protected 1st to OKC for Kenrich Williams
BOS: Dennis Schroeder to Dallas for 2022/2024 2nd rounders, cap relief
BRK: 2028 unprotected 1st to Dallas for Dorian Finney-Smith
CHA: Plumlee and Bouknight to Indiana for Myles Turner
CHI: DJJ, Patrick Williams and Portland's lotto-protected 1st to Detroit for Jerami Grant
CLE: Rubio and lotto-protected 1st to Houston for Eric Gordon
DAL: none (waive WCS, sign Chriss: not sure why Marks lists some trades for both sides but not others )
DEN: none (waive McGruder, sign Davon Reed)
DET: Grant to Memphis for Clarke, Culver, Kyle Anderson, Utah and Golden State's 1sts
GSW: none
HOU: Wood to Knicks for Kemba Walker, Mitch Robinson, Dallas and Charlotte's 1sts
IND: Turner to Minnesota for Vanderbilt, Prince, top-9 protected 2022 1st, and swap rights in 2023 (top-5 protected)
LAC: Ibaka, 2025 2nd and $1M cash to OKC for draft rights guy, cap relief
LAL: Jordan, $1M to Orlando for draft rights guy, cap relief
MEM: Clarke, Culver, Kyle Anderson, Utah and Golden State's 1sts to Detroit for Jerami Grant, Rodney Magruder (?) and Luka Garza
MIA: none (convert Caleb Martin's contract)
MIL: none
MIN: Prince and three second rounders (own 2022 and 2023, Washington's 2022) to Orlando for Terrence Ross
NOP: Satoransky and Temple to New York for Evan Fournier and Charlotte's 1st
NYK: Robinson and Knox to OKC for Derrick Favors and Phoenix's 1st
OKC: Clippers' and Philadelphia's 1st to Atlanta for Cam Reddish
ORL: Ross to Minnesota for Prince and three second rounders (own 2022 and 2023, Washington's 2022)
PHI: Simmons and Thybulle to Boston for Jaylen Brown and Juancho Hernangomez ("Remember, this is a deal that we would like to see from Philadelphia's perspective, not Boston's" )
PHO: Saric, Jalen Smith and 2025 and 2026 second rounders to Portland for Robert Covington
POR: Covington to Phoenix for Saric, Jalen Smith and 2025 and 2026 second rounders
SAC: Haliburton, Barnes, Tristan Thompson and two top-6 protected first rounders to Philadelphia for Ben Simmons, Shake Milton and Charles Bassey
SAS: Thad Young to Phoenix for Saric, Jalen Smith and 2023 and 2024 second rounders
TOR: Isaac Bonga and cash to Phoenix for cap relief/roster spot
UTA: none
WAS: Avdija, Caldwell-Pope, Kuzma and 2025 and 2027 first rounders to Indiana for Domatas Sabonis and Jeremy Lamb

Discuss if you like

[VCfor3]

At work but didn’t see it while skimming.

Is there a Westbrook for Harris type deal that makes sense? LAL gets someone who maybe fits Lebron better plus maybe another player or two due to the salary difference (could loop in another team if they want. Nunn for Gordon?). I don’t necessarily see Philly taking back Westbrook but shaving off that last year of Harris may matter in a trade. For Atlanta for instance, Westbrook could be the most overpaid backup PG this year but is then a large expiring contract this offseason they can use to go after someone. If no trade then buy him out or let him stay on as backup PG, but he’d be off the books when Hunter’s extension kicks in. Westbrook won’t actually help Atlanta much but eating him would count as a large chunk of value if they really wanted to get Simmons. Maybe Atlanta adds some value and flips Westbrook to Boston or something. Would have to look later at tax implications for next year for Atlanta.

[DoItALL9]

Ben Simmons
Tyrese Maxey
Tobias Harris
Danny Green

For

Spencer Dinwiddie
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Davis Bertans
Bradley Beal

Both get something they want
Both get rid of something they don't want

Sent from my LM-G710 using RealGM mobile app

[VCfor3]

Ben Simmons
Tyrese Maxey
Tobias Harris
Danny Green

For

Spencer Dinwiddie
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Davis Bertans
Bradley Beal

Both get something they want
Both get rid of something they don't want

Sent from my LM-G710 using RealGM mobile app

I like where your head is at, but I think Harris being attached to Simmons is because Morey is realizing he can't get Beal or Dame via trade. If he could he'd just do Simmons+ for Beal and both teams are likely happier. I think he is trying to clear enough cap space to go after Harden this offseason in free agency. Your trade brings him his star he'll have to extend so cap space doesn't matter again. I wonder if Philly would prefer your package over Harris though? I'm not sure Washington would want the extra Harris years though I could certainly be wrong on that. All in all way to put a twist on an otherwise overdone deal on this board ha!

[shangrila]

I'm always amazed at how, despite my already low expectations, ESPN still manages to disappoint.

ATL: Solomon Hill and top-15 protected 1st to OKC for Kenrich Williams

A 1st? For Williams? Seems like an overpay. And I highly doubt OKC is interested in more short term picks. We've seen it in recent years, and with OKC last year, where having too many 1sts ends up working against you.

BOS: Dennis Schroeder to Dallas for 2022/2024 2nd rounders, cap relief

This one is solid, assuming no one is interested/asks too much to take on Hernangomez for Boston

BRK: 2028 unprotected 1st to Dallas for Dorian Finney-Smith

Brutal for Dallas.

CHA: Plumlee and Bouknight to Indiana for Myles Turner

Why would Indiana be remotely interested in this? Plumlee sucks and Bouknight has barely played.

CHI: DJJ, Patrick Williams and Portland's lotto-protected 1st to Detroit for Jerami Grant

Overpay. Unless Chicago really, REALLY thinks they can win it all this year giving up Williams doesn't make much sense.

CLE: Rubio and lotto-protected 1st to Houston for Eric Gordon

Another solid one. The extra money on Gordon might be an issue when working out a Sexton contract but if they want to go for things this year then it makes sense.

DET: Grant to Memphis for Clarke, Culver, Kyle Anderson, Utah and Golden State's 1sts

Expirings, late 1sts and a so-so prospect seems like fair value for Grant. Not sure Detroit would actually do it though. And Memphis seems content to build slowly so I don't see Grant as a perfect target for them.

HOU: Wood to Knicks for Kemba Walker, Mitch Robinson, Dallas and Charlotte's 1sts

Houston takes that and runs, not sure why the Knicks should give up that much. Wood looks positively radioactive at this point, 2 1sts and Robinson seems like a huge overpay.

IND: Turner to Minnesota for Vanderbilt, Prince, top-9 protected 2022 1st, and swap rights in 2023 (top-5 protected)

Call me a homer but I'd rather have Vanderbilt. I'm especially not interested in adding a 1st AND a swap on top. So easy pass. I assume Indiana says yes fairly quick though.

LAC: Ibaka, 2025 2nd and $1M cash to OKC for draft rights guy, cap relief

Why? Do they even care about the tax?

LAL: Jordan, $1M to Orlando for draft rights guy, cap relief

I guess?

MEM: Clarke, Culver, Kyle Anderson, Utah and Golden State's 1sts to Detroit for Jerami Grant, Rodney Magruder (?) and Luka Garza

I don't know if this was you or them that didn't include the full deal in the DET section. Either way, same evaluation as above.

MIN: Prince and three second rounders (own 2022 and 2023, Washington's 2022) to Orlando for Terrence Ross

I guess? I'm not sure what Ross does for us and he doesn't seem to be shooting well this season. So given he's got another year on his deal I'd be reducing the picks, if I'm adding any at all.

NOP: Satoransky and Temple to New York for Evan Fournier and Charlotte's 1st

Too hard to know what they're thinking. In theory, that starting 5 is decent with a healthy Zion. But that's a lot of money to take on with what they're already committed to and there's no guarantee any of it comes together.

NYK: Robinson and Knox to OKC for Derrick Favors and Phoenix's 1st

I'd have to believe Robinson could get better value than that.

OKC: Clippers' and Philadelphia's 1st to Atlanta for Cam Reddish

Reddish is a future mega star, apparently, so this deal is both inconceivable and insulting.

PHI: Simmons and Thybulle to Boston for Jaylen Brown and Juancho Hernangomez ("Remember, this is a deal that we would like to see from Philadelphia's perspective, not Boston's" )

I do wonder how much more success the Sixers would have with Brown over Simmons all things considered, but I do think it's probably the best return PHI could hope for.

PHO: Saric, Jalen Smith and 2025 and 2026 second rounders to Portland for Robert Covington
POR: Covington to Phoenix for Saric, Jalen Smith and 2025 and 2026 second rounders

Smart, sensible.

SAC: Haliburton, Barnes, Tristan Thompson and two top-6 protected first rounders to Philadelphia for Ben Simmons, Shake Milton and Charles Bassey

Eh, not sure I'd do that. Simmons makes far more sense as a pair with Hali rather than Fox.

SAS: Thad Young to Phoenix for Saric, Jalen Smith and 2023 and 2024 second rounders

Makes sense.

TOR: Isaac Bonga and cash to Phoenix for cap relief/roster spot

Why to Phoenix of all teams?

WAS: Avdija, Caldwell-Pope, Kuzma and 2025 and 2027 first rounders to Indiana for Domatas Sabonis and Jeremy Lamb

Interesting, and probably the calibre of return I'd expect for Sabonis. Not sure if Indiana wants to move him all that much, but if they did I could see this. Washington makes an all in move to appease Beal makes sense too.

[loserX]

MEM: Clarke, Culver, Kyle Anderson, Utah and Golden State's 1sts to Detroit for Jerami Grant, Rodney Magruder (?) and Luka Garza

I don't know if this was you or them that didn't include the full deal in the DET section. Either way, same evaluation as above.

It was definitely them Note also that this version includes Magruder, who isn't on Detroit any more.

Maybe he was in the original trade for both teams, and ESPN remembered to update Detroit's version but not Memphis'? In any case, just sloppy.