PG: RJ Tells Chanel: “Hold My Beer” while Randle Hangs Up His Spurs

[NoDopeOnSundays]

RJ shot 4/10 against Lu Dort which isn’t exactly something to be happy about.

RJ also shot 2/5 against Turner.

So when good defenders are actually guarding him, he’s putting up bad efficiency.

Tor is maybe the best defensive team and RJ is avg 21.7ppg, 46%fg, 45% 3, 62% TS against them in 3 games.

Every team is missing dudes so it doesnt really seem like that is the case. There's a noticeable difference in RJs play when he is good or bad.

Those stats are skewed because of one good game he had against them which Gary Trent JR guarded mostly and he’s a pretty terrible defender. He was mediocre in the next two games.

This is only making my case stronger

Trent has a lower individual DRTG than Randle this year


And Trent in general isn't a terrible defender this season, the Raptors are 111 DRTG when he's on the court and 110 when he's off, he's also top 4 in deflections per game, and 5th in steals per game.

[Chanel Bomber]

I get what people are saying when RJ can't create shots well....But watch him play and he gets so many good looks within the flow of the offense. During the rough stretch, he was missing so many bunnies and open looks. That's not good, but that he was able to get so many good looks was a great sign. Now that they are going down its making a huge difference. He does get blocked a lot, but gets a ton of buckets at the rim when its all said and done which is a very good skill. He just knows where to be and how to move on the floor. He's just not flashy in the way he does it either. Not gonna be crossing people over or creating a ton of space off fadeaway step backs...but he gets a step and has the defender on his hip, and he is able to get a good look.

Fun fact

RJ is now in the 45th percentile in isolation, and 47th percentile in PnR scoring, so he's well within average in terms of efficiency from there

He's also 90th percentile in post ups, but he's only had 14 on the year, so it's more of a, he does it when he has the advantage type of deal

His spot-up shooting has taken a dip, down to just .90 ppp which is 34th percentile, but he's still technically more efficient from there than the PnR and Isolation at .81 and .87 ppp, respectively

So he's been getting a lot better at creating his own shot, though he's still not there yet.

The Indiana and San Antonio games really boosted these numbers, which is great (not taking anything away from him, just saying that these numbers have improved recently).

It seems like RJ is starting to figure out how to beat players who are slower than him. He torched Craig, Sabonis, Poeltl, Eubanks. Hopefully this evolution is real.

If he consistently punish those match-ups, the next step for him would be how to score against length and athleticism, because that's where his physical limitations (and lack of finesse) really show. We're seeing new moves, so hopefully it's a sign of things to come.

[3toheadmelo]

If RJ was playing great against legit competition all year long then we wouldn’t be having this discussion if we’re being honest. Now with that being said hopefully he keeps this up and proves us wrong. We are desperate for a young talent to break out. Would be nice if RJ can break that curse

[NoDopeOnSundays]

i don't want to hate on rj, i hope this is a turn around. seriously. but i'm not sure half a season counts as just a slow start because it's, you know, half the season. and most of his games like this seem to come against bad teams missing players. this was the easiest part of the schedule made easier by covid. but as i said last time i spoke about him, his 3 point shot seems to be coming around lately so that's a good sign that he'll at least be a productive player for us.

It's as simple as his front court touches increasing the last 12 games and his usage rate going up, Randle handling the ball as much as he does is detriment to a players development, does anyone play better with him? Evan Fournier looks like Chandler Parsons after multiple knee surgeries playing off this bum. Kemba and Evan both looked like **** because of Randle.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Those stats are skewed because of one good game he had against them which Gary Trent JR guarded mostly and he’s a pretty terrible defender. He was mediocre in the next two games.

This is only making my case stronger

They are still one of the best defensive teams even with Gary Trent. RJ had a good game against the Bulls too. You guys seem to be saying that good defensive players defend better then bad defensive players, which is the case for everyone in the NBA. No doubt RJ is streaky, but its cherry picking to discredit his good games

That game where RJ played great against Trent didn’t have Barnes and Siakam who are some of their best defenders.

You can’t say we’re cherry picking when that’s exactly what you’re doing with the Toronto game which skewed his stats.

We’re saying RJ played well against bad competition which is the truth. We just want to see him do it against good competition. The Bulls game is probably the only team so I’ll give you that.

I am just cherry picking cause you guys are cherry picking

Everybody is missing games this season. I am happy to see RJ have good games in NBA and not really concerned with the competition especially if Pop is on the sidelines

[Deeeez Knicks]

I get what people are saying when RJ can't create shots well....But watch him play and he gets so many good looks within the flow of the offense. During the rough stretch, he was missing so many bunnies and open looks. That's not good, but that he was able to get so many good looks was a great sign. Now that they are going down its making a huge difference. He does get blocked a lot, but gets a ton of buckets at the rim when its all said and done which is a very good skill. He just knows where to be and how to move on the floor. He's just not flashy in the way he does it either. Not gonna be crossing people over or creating a ton of space off fadeaway step backs...but he gets a step and has the defender on his hip, and he is able to get a good look.

So you are saying you would rather have a offense run through P&R and shots at the rim or 3's...rather then Isolation post ups and contested step back 2's?

Yup, exactly!

[mpharris36]

I just think RJ is a bit streaky and as NDOS pointed out...we are running more of the offense through RJ now.

Before when RJ had an off shooting game he just had a bad game because he was relegated to more C&S. For example the OKC game he was 1-8 from 3 and shot like crap from outside but was 9-12 inside the arc because he got more chances to attack.

I don't have the numbers but my guess during this stretch RJ has gotten a lot more P&R opportunities then he did early in the year.

[mpharris36]

I get what people are saying when RJ can't create shots well....But watch him play and he gets so many good looks within the flow of the offense. During the rough stretch, he was missing so many bunnies and open looks. That's not good, but that he was able to get so many good looks was a great sign. Now that they are going down its making a huge difference. He does get blocked a lot, but gets a ton of buckets at the rim when its all said and done which is a very good skill. He just knows where to be and how to move on the floor. He's just not flashy in the way he does it either. Not gonna be crossing people over or creating a ton of space off fadeaway step backs...but he gets a step and has the defender on his hip, and he is able to get a good look.

So you are saying you would rather have a offense run through P&R and shots at the rim or 3's...rather then Isolation post ups and contested step back 2's?

Yup, exactly!

as I would hope most would and live with the results...yes RJ needs to be more consistent finishing and as a shooter...but there is no denying the looks we are getting are much better.

[Deeeez Knicks]

i don't want to hate on rj, i hope this is a turn around. seriously. but i'm not sure half a season counts as just a slow start because it's, you know, half the season. and most of his games like this seem to come against bad teams missing players. this was the easiest part of the schedule made easier by covid. but as i said last time i spoke about him, his 3 point shot seems to be coming around lately so that's a good sign that he'll at least be a productive player for us.

I think someone pointed out it was more like 10-15 bad game stretch. He started off well, then had that horrendous stretch, now has been playing better again.

Still, dont want to see that kind of stretch and he needs to be more consistent.

[sol537]

My preference is to trade Randle, but if they're not going to do that then I think you have to convert Obi to a PG, somehow.

Obi + Knox + Kemba + Fournier + pick(s) for Turner + Brogdon + scraps

At least you'd have a semblance of a Thibs/NBA team... Turner, Randle, RJ, Grimes, Brogdon. Prob a 50-55+ win team for the next few years.

[Chanel Bomber]

I just think RJ is a bit streaky and as NDOS pointed out...we are running more of the offense through RJ now.

Before when RJ had an off shooting game he just had a bad game because he was relegated to more C&S. For example the OKC game he was 1-8 from 3 and shot like crap from outside but was 9-12 inside the arc because he got more chances to attack.

I don't have the numbers but my guess during this stretch RJ has gotten a lot more P&R opportunities then he did early in the year.

I think it's actually the opposite.

His saving grace last year was his C&S 3-point shooting, particularly on open 3s.

He would fail whenever he had the ball in his hands and created.

I'm not saying that things can't evolve though.

Him becoming more efficient as a PNR ball-handler would change the outlook of this team completely. Let's hope it sustains as the games accumulate.

[3toheadmelo]

i don't want to hate on rj, i hope this is a turn around. seriously. but i'm not sure half a season counts as just a slow start because it's, you know, half the season. and most of his games like this seem to come against bad teams missing players. this was the easiest part of the schedule made easier by covid. but as i said last time i spoke about him, his 3 point shot seems to be coming around lately so that's a good sign that he'll at least be a productive player for us.

uncle sham with the facts!!

[K_ick_God]

I get what people are saying when RJ can't create shots well....But watch him play and he gets so many good looks within the flow of the offense. During the rough stretch, he was missing so many bunnies and open looks. That's not good, but that he was able to get so many good looks was a great sign. Now that they are going down its making a huge difference. He does get blocked a lot, but gets a ton of buckets at the rim when its all said and done which is a very good skill. He just knows where to be and how to move on the floor. He's just not flashy in the way he does it either. Not gonna be crossing people over or creating a ton of space off fadeaway step backs...but he gets a step and has the defender on his hip, and he is able to get a good look.

As much as this SOUNDS very bad at first glance, shot-making abilities 1 on 1 are overrated and can even be a double-edged sword. Randle is better at it than RJ and may always be better but so what. Melo was good at it. Was he better at it than LeBron? Yeah for much of his career he was actually, but it didn't make Melo better than Bron at any point (I don't think RJ is as good a flow or basketball player as LeBron, disclaimer). Paul Pierce could create shots but also was more of a get his in the flow type of guy. A very good shot creator but not elite.

I'm just saying, it's something that gets a bit too much attention.

A guy can fall in love with that and then the rest of his team suffers.

[3toheadmelo]

They are still one of the best defensive teams even with Gary Trent. RJ had a good game against the Bulls too. You guys seem to be saying that good defensive players defend better then bad defensive players, which is the case for everyone in the NBA. No doubt RJ is streaky, but its cherry picking to discredit his good games

That game where RJ played great against Trent didn’t have Barnes and Siakam who are some of their best defenders.

You can’t say we’re cherry picking when that’s exactly what you’re doing with the Toronto game which skewed his stats.

We’re saying RJ played well against bad competition which is the truth. We just want to see him do it against good competition. The Bulls game is probably the only team so I’ll give you that.

I am just cherry picking cause you guys are cherry picking

Everybody is missing games this season. I am happy to see RJ have good games in NBA and not really concerned with the competition especially if Pop is on the sidelines

We’re just skeptical fam. But I hope he keeps it up and would love for him to prove me wrong. We really need a young player to break out. With Randle regressing and most likely on his way out, pretty much the rest of our hope is on RJ.

[mpharris36]

I just think RJ is a bit streaky and as NDOS pointed out...we are running more of the offense through RJ now.

Before when RJ had an off shooting game he just had a bad game because he was relegated to more C&S. For example the OKC game he was 1-8 from 3 and shot like crap from outside but was 9-12 inside the arc because he got more chances to attack.

I don't have the numbers but my guess during this stretch RJ has gotten a lot more P&R opportunities then he did early in the year.

I think it's actually the opposite.

His saving grace last year was his C&S 3-point shooting, particularly on open 3s.

He would fail whenever he had the ball in his hands and created.

I'm not saying that things can't evolve though.

Him becoming more efficient as a PNR ball-handler would change the outlook of this team completely. Let's hope it sustains as the games accumulate.

I never said otherwise. He thrived in C&S situations last year but he wasn't tasked with doing more (the offense ran solely through randle). Fans get on him that he is just C&S (3/D) and now that he is taking more responsibility it would be logical that his EFF might go down with take on more usage. He just has to continue to improve that.

[Oscirus]

My preference is to trade Randle, but if they're not going to do that then I think you have to convert Obi to a PG, somehow.

Obi + Knox + Kemba + Fournier + pick(s) for Turner + Brogdon + scraps

At least you'd have a semblance of a Thibs/NBA team... Turner, Randle, RJ, Grimes, Brogdon. Prob a 50-55+ win team for the next few years.

Honestly, at this point Id kill for an actual legit pg just so we could end these debates one way or the other. That being said, dont ting that trade above would net us that

[K_ick_God]

I just think RJ is a bit streaky and as NDOS pointed out...we are running more of the offense through RJ now.

Before when RJ had an off shooting game he just had a bad game because he was relegated to more C&S. For example the OKC game he was 1-8 from 3 and shot like crap from outside but was 9-12 inside the arc because he got more chances to attack.

I don't have the numbers but my guess during this stretch RJ has gotten a lot more P&R opportunities then he did early in the year.

I think it's actually the opposite.

His saving grace last year was his C&S 3-point shooting, particularly on open 3s.

He would fail whenever he had the ball in his hands and created.

I'm not saying that things can't evolve though.

Him becoming more efficient as a PNR ball-handler would change the outlook of this team completely. Let's hope it sustains as the games accumulate.

You know how I boil down this discussion and not trying to kill it but just to provide some early big picture analysis: RJ is a better and more confident shooter than advertised. He has a nice looking stroke too. It's not natural but he's perfecting it at a higher rate of speed than we were told he would.

His lack of escape velocity is def an issue. He's not going to be that kind of player. But if he was, he'd be closing in on very elite lol because he's big.

[K_ick_God]

What is often missed is that the Burkses of the world screw up your team by overdribbling. If a guy can't dribble and create but passes instead, I don't see the problem. Yes it may mean the guy is not a lead scorer, but again a solid 2/3 is better than a fake 1.

[Chanel Bomber]

I get what people are saying when RJ can't create shots well....But watch him play and he gets so many good looks within the flow of the offense. During the rough stretch, he was missing so many bunnies and open looks. That's not good, but that he was able to get so many good looks was a great sign. Now that they are going down its making a huge difference. He does get blocked a lot, but gets a ton of buckets at the rim when its all said and done which is a very good skill. He just knows where to be and how to move on the floor. He's just not flashy in the way he does it either. Not gonna be crossing people over or creating a ton of space off fadeaway step backs...but he gets a step and has the defender on his hip, and he is able to get a good look.

As much as this SOUNDS very bad at first glance, shot-making abilities 1 on 1 are overrated and can even be a double-edged sword. Randle is better at it than RJ and may always be better but so what. Melo was good at it. Was he better at it than LeBron? Yeah for much of his career he was actually, but it didn't make Melo better than Bron at any point (I don't think RJ is as good a flow or basketball player as LeBron, disclaimer). Paul Pierce could create shots but also was more of a get his in the flow type of guy. A very good shot creator but not elite.

I'm just saying, it's something that gets a bit too much attention.

A guy can fall in love with that and then the rest of his team suffers.

I think, as is the case for any playtype, it depends on efficiency and the gravity that you have in that play.

Melo at least hit a respectable baseline of efficiency, and he had considerable gravity as an ISO scorer which led to open shots (which were higher efficiency shots than the ISO itself, but still came as a result of the ISO).

And that's the issue with Randle. Defenses overreacted last year by sending hard doubles that were completely unnecessary. The league figured that out after the Hawks series. So now he neither reaches the baseline of efficiency, nor does he have any real gravity (a little but it's largely inconsequential in the grand scheme of things).

Most great players are dominant ISO scorers. Not all of them, but most of them, including some of the most unselfish superstars like Curry or Jokic.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I just think RJ is a bit streaky and as NDOS pointed out...we are running more of the offense through RJ now.

Before when RJ had an off shooting game he just had a bad game because he was relegated to more C&S. For example the OKC game he was 1-8 from 3 and shot like crap from outside but was 9-12 inside the arc because he got more chances to attack.

I don't have the numbers but my guess during this stretch RJ has gotten a lot more P&R opportunities then he did early in the year.

I think it's actually the opposite.

His saving grace last year was his C&S 3-point shooting, particularly on open 3s.

He would fail whenever he had the ball in his hands and created.

I'm not saying that things can't evolve though.

Him becoming more efficient as a PNR ball-handler would change the outlook of this team completely. Let's hope it sustains as the games accumulate.

He was scoring .79 ppp as the PnR ball handler last season, the problem is he only got 5 possessions a game with the play, and in he playoffs that actually jumped to 1.07ppp, but the possessions were cut in half. This year he's at .81, but only 4 possessions per game, for reference Bradley Beal is at .83 and Darius Garland is at .88 but with more possessions. As a wing, RJ should be getting a lot more opportunities with the play since it's something the numbers say he may be good at, but dumbass Thibs doesn't do analytics.