Tank World Order (7.0)

[720]

Fred has legitimately been a great player and his improved his efficiency to make him elite and we got people saying hes stat padding? Makes you realize some people have no idea what they're talking about.

This why Lowry is so underappreciated by people and Demar is overrated. Because of fans like you that only love stats but don't look beyond that. He doesn't do a good job of getting the team involved (and no, assists don't equal getting the team involved, all his actions involve him and only him, it's only when he's in trouble during a drive or missed rotation by the other team when he decides to pass the ball), he has no feel for the momentum of the game, often times ignores the hot hand, for some reason has a hard time passing to the roller who is open, chooses to call his own number at times too often (he literally shoots like 30 something percent from the field at least once a or twice a week). Overall the man is a score first guard playing a point guard role (which Nurse is starting to fix thankfully by getting Siakam more facilitating duty).

[Yeezus_]

Fred and Siakam are 28, this is basically their prime. They are eating up most of our cap and if Fred keeps stad padding he's gonna get a near max and take up a bigger portion of the cap. Not a lot of room to improve if 70 percent of your cap is stuck to Fred and Siakam.

Fred is stat padding now? You cant be serious man.

So we're going to pretend like he wasn't incentivized to take 20 plus shots multiple times vs all these covid protocol/ injury plagued teams the past week and a half to up his counting and efficiency stats? From Mr.BetOnYourSelf, the man who wants to win all the awards? Stop being naïve.

Amazing logic man. I guess going by what you said, Scottie is statpadding too considering he said he wants to win ROY!!

Not even going to entertain this any longer. Literally an awful opinion if you think Fred is stat padding. You have real analysts who know hoops talk about how he changed his shot frequency on different areas of the court which is helping him get better shot attempts. But carry on man, it's usually the ones with the most to say that have the worst opinions anyways.

[Yeezus_]

I'm one of Lowrys biggest fans man, I dont need you to tell me he's under-appreciated nor can I take your opinion seriously.

Guy is straight up hating on Fred, wild stuff lmao.

[720]

Fred is stat padding now? You cant be serious man.

So we're going to pretend like he wasn't incentivized to take 20 plus shots multiple times vs all these covid protocol/ injury plagued teams the past week and a half to up his counting and efficiency stats? From Mr.BetOnYourSelf, the man who wants to win all the awards? Stop being naïve.

Amazing logic man. I guess going by what you said, Scottie is statpadding too considering he said he wants to win ROY!!

Not even going to entertain this any longer. Literally an awful opinion if you think Fred is stat padding. You have real analysts who know hoops talk about how he changed his shot frequency on different areas of the court which is helping him get better shot attempts. But carry on man, it's usually the ones with the most to say that have the worst opinions anyways.

Does Scottie force the issue ever? If anything he's too unselfish. He also said he wouldn't mind winning it but won't chase it. He cares more about the team success than his own personal numbers.

lol okay. Whatever.

[Yeezus_]

Awful, awful logic displayed on this page. He cant even see how flawed his argument is because of the hate. Crazy.

[720]

I'm one of Lowrys biggest fans man, I dont need you to tell me he's under-appreciated nor can I take your opinion seriously.

Guy is straight up hating on Fred, wild stuff lmao.

I see you got no retort, go back to rooting for the iso midget "point guard" who will lead us nowhere in the playoffs.

[ATLTimekeeper]

No, both the Bulls and the Joe Johnson hawks hitched their wagons onto B level players (Hinrich, Deng, Thomas, Josh Smith, Williams) thinking/treating them like A level players. This is why neither team had serious post season success.

That's literally what we're currently in the trajectory of doing (or have been doing for the past 2 years).

We just picked 4th? What trajectory are you looking at? The Bulls and Hawks tried it your way.

Also no, Rockets lost Harden so idk how that's an example of a miracle happening twice to the same team, also the Nets had to give up lots of picks to do that trade (which is the current market for superstars, no longer those 2018 standards) and even then it was the place Harden demanded to go to, which literally never has happened in our history. No player has demanded to be traded to us.

? I don't think you understood what I was saying. The Rockers traded for James Harden and paid next to nothing to get a future MVP. The Nets also traded next to nothing (or nothing that the Raptors also couldn't muster up) to get an MVP. The fact that he insisted on a specific location reduces his acquisition cost in the Nets example. He doesn't have to want to be here at all. OKC traded for Paul George when he wanted to go to LA.

We've never drafted an MVP either, or a 1A on a champ. That shouldn't mean we should never draft again.

[Yeezus_]

Fred hate is so corny.

[720]

No, both the Bulls and the Joe Johnson hawks hitched their wagons onto B level players (Hinrich, Deng, Thomas, Josh Smith, Williams) thinking/treating them like A level players. This is why neither team had serious post season success.

That's literally what we're currently in the trajectory of doing (or have been doing for the past 2 years).

We just picked 4th? What trajectory are you looking at? The Bulls and Hawks tried it your way.

Also no, Rockets lost Harden so idk how that's an example of a miracle happening twice to the same team, also the Nets had to give up lots of picks to do that trade (which is the current market for superstars, no longer those 2018 standards) and even then it was the place Harden demanded to go to, which literally never has happened in our history. No player has demanded to be traded to us.

? I don't think you understood what I was saying. The Rockers traded for James Harden and paid next to nothing to get a future MVP. The Nets also traded next to nothing (or nothing that the Raptors also couldn't muster up) to get an MVP. The fact that he insisted on a specific location reduces his acquisition cost in the Nets example. He doesn't have to want to be here at all. OKC traded for Paul George when he wanted to go to LA.

We've never drafted an MVP either, or a 1A on a champ. That shouldn't mean we should never draft again.

The nets gave up 3 1st round picks, 4 first round picks swaps, in addition to Lavert, Jarrett Allen and Prince in a three team trade for Harden how is that NOTHING. Also do you see Masai ever trading that many 1st round picks ever?

Also the trajectory I'm talking about is, like the Hawks and the Bulls, we have now spent 3 years building around Fred Vanvleet and Siakam. Like those Hawks and Bulls teams this duo while great, are no game changers and will put a cap on this team. Idk how many years we're gonna waste on this Vanvleet as a point guard experiment, but whatever it is. is just a waste of time like those Hawks teams.

[Fairview4Life]

No, both the Bulls and the Joe Johnson hawks hitched their wagons onto B level players (Hinrich, Deng, Thomas, Josh Smith, Williams) thinking/treating them like A level players. This is why neither team had serious post season success.

Derrick Rose? Joakim Noah? That's a lot of B level players taken with very high picks over the course of a decade.

[720]

No, both the Bulls and the Joe Johnson hawks hitched their wagons onto B level players (Hinrich, Deng, Thomas, Josh Smith, Williams) thinking/treating them like A level players. This is why neither team had serious post season success.

Derrick Rose? Joakim Noah? That's a lot of B level players taken with very high picks over the course of a decade.

You're thinking about the second iteration of that Bulls team where they got lucky in the lottery (Lottery!) and moved up to get Rose.

I'm talking about the mid 2000s bulls team that was centered around Hinrich, Gordan, and Deng.

The Bulls team built around Rose, Noah, and Boozer are not the same Bulls team built around Deng, Gordan, and Hinrich.

[Fairview4Life]

No, both the Bulls and the Joe Johnson hawks hitched their wagons onto B level players (Hinrich, Deng, Thomas, Josh Smith, Williams) thinking/treating them like A level players. This is why neither team had serious post season success.

Derrick Rose? Joakim Noah? That's a lot of B level players taken with very high picks over the course of a decade.

You're thinking about the second iteration of that Bulls team where they got lucky in the lottery (Lottery!) and moved up to get Rose.

I'm talking about the mid 2000s bulls team that was centered around Hinrich, Gordan, and Deng.

Oh, sorry, got confused because both teams fizzled out.

[720]

Derrick Rose? Joakim Noah? That's a lot of B level players taken with very high picks over the course of a decade.

You're thinking about the second iteration of that Bulls team where they got lucky in the lottery (Lottery!) and moved up to get Rose.

I'm talking about the mid 2000s bulls team that was centered around Hinrich, Gordan, and Deng.

Oh, sorry, got confused because both teams fizzled out.

Rose had a career altering injury, that happens. Is that the same as building around B level players and expecting something that's likely not to happen? It's not the same. They're not even comparable.

[Fairview4Life]

You're thinking about the second iteration of that Bulls team where they got lucky in the lottery (Lottery!) and moved up to get Rose.

I'm talking about the mid 2000s bulls team that was centered around Hinrich, Gordan, and Deng.

Oh, sorry, got confused because both teams fizzled out.

Rose had a career altering injury, that happens. Is that the same as building around B level players and expecting something that's likely not to happen? It's not the same. They're not even comparable.

After picking Rose they lost in the first round 3 times and lost to Lebron in the Conference finals once before his career altering injury. Sounds familiar.

Those pre Rose B level players made it to the conference semis once too.

[DelAbbot]

I think the Kawhi experience really put on some rose-coloured glasses for people on the likelihood of our development process (with low FRP and undrafted players) leading to championship.

[720]

Oh, sorry, got confused because both teams fizzled out.

Rose had a career altering injury, that happens. Is that the same as building around B level players and expecting something that's likely not to happen? It's not the same. They're not even comparable.

They lost in the first round 3 times and lost to Lebron in the Conference finals once before Rose's career altering injury. Sounds familiar.

How is that relevant to your first point where you basically combined the Deng era Bulls and Rose era bulls to make a point?

Even with that you're wrong.

They went to the ECF's and then the very next year rose has that injury in the first round, and they lose to the sixers. Had he not got hurt they would have went farther. Even after Rose had that injury they went on to get to the conference semi finals two more times (at this point Rose wasn't the same so I never thought they would get far but I point it out since you didn't even get the facts right).


Also again, this is deflection because my original comparison of building a team around B level players like Deng, Hinrich, Gordan to this core of Fred and Siakam and it not working out is true.

[Fairview4Life]

Rose had a career altering injury, that happens. Is that the same as building around B level players and expecting something that's likely not to happen? It's not the same. They're not even comparable.

They lost in the first round 3 times and lost to Lebron in the Conference finals once before Rose's career altering injury. Sounds familiar.

How is that relevant to your first point where you basically combined the Deng era Bulls and Rose era bulls to make a point. :lol:

Even with that you're wrong.

They went to the ECF's and then the very next year rose has that injury in the first round, and they lose to the sixers. Had he not got hurt they would have went farther. Even after Rose had that injury they went on to get to the conference finals two more times (at this point Rose wasn't the same so I never thought they would get far but point it out since you didn't even get the facts right).


Also again, this is deflection because my original comparison of building a team around B level players like Deng, Hinrich, Gordan to this core of Fred and Siakam is true.

I got the facts right. You said he had a career altering injury so used the years before that injury. If you want to look at the years after that injury, they were not beating Lebron in any of those years either. You think they would have gotten past the Heatles in either year? The Cavs with Kyrie and Lebron? The Warriors? Lol. They fizzle with or without Rose's injury. You're also going to be shocked at who was on Derrick Rose's Bulls teams, I think. One of the names rhymes with Buol Beng.

Anyway, the Bulls tanked, built a trash team with Chandler and Curry, tanked again, built a mid level team with Gordon, Deng, etc., Tanked again, built a team around Rose, Deng, Noah, etc.. And didn't really come all that close to even getting to the finals other than one year they were smashed by the Heat in the conference finals.

[720]

They lost in the first round 3 times and lost to Lebron in the Conference finals once before Rose's career altering injury. Sounds familiar.

How is that relevant to your first point where you basically combined the Deng era Bulls and Rose era bulls to make a point.

Even with that you're wrong.

They went to the ECF's and then the very next year rose has that injury in the first round, and they lose to the sixers. Had he not got hurt they would have went farther. Even after Rose had that injury they went on to get to the conference finals two more times (at this point Rose wasn't the same so I never thought they would get far but point it out since you didn't even get the facts right).


Also again, this is deflection because my original comparison of building a team around B level players like Deng, Hinrich, Gordan to this core of Fred and Siakam is true.

I got the facts right. You said he had a career altering injury so used the years before that injury. If you want to look at the years after that injury, they were not beating Lebron in any of those years either. You think they would have gotten past the Heatles in either year? The Cavs with Kyrie and Love? The Warriors? Lol. They fizzle with or without Rose's injury. You're also going to be shocked at who was on Derrick Rose's Bulls teams, I think. One of the names rhymes with Buol Beng.

Anyway, the Bulls tanked, built a trash team with Chandler and Curry, tanked again, built a mid level team with Gordon, Deng, etc., Tanked again, built a team around Rose, Deng, Noah, etc.. And didn't really come all that close to even getting to the finals other than one year they were smashed by the Heat in the conference finals.

So you don't count the injury he had in the 1st round vs the sixers as career altering? Interesting. lol

Bulls actually didn't tank, they pushed for the playoffs and missed. They had one of the lowest odds to get the number one draft pick (something like 1.7 percent) and lucked out and got Rose. Which is fine by me, I don't think you need to have the first pick for the lottery to be worth while, Curry, Klay, Love, Wade, Bosh, are all examples of this.

Also, when did I say building around a A level player guarantees a championship? Point at the comment where I said that. I'm saying it gives you an actual chance of competing vs building around B level players like Fred.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Rose had a career altering injury, that happens. Is that the same as building around B level players and expecting something that's likely not to happen? It's not the same. They're not even comparable.

They lost in the first round 3 times and lost to Lebron in the Conference finals once before Rose's career altering injury. Sounds familiar.

How is that relevant to your first point where you basically combined the Deng era Bulls and Rose era bulls to make a point?

Even with that you're wrong.

They went to the ECF's and then the very next year rose has that injury in the first round, and they lose to the sixers. Had he not got hurt they would have went farther. Even after Rose had that injury they went on to get to the conference semi finals two more times (at this point Rose wasn't the same so I never thought they would get far but I point it out since you didn't even get the facts right).


Also again, this is deflection because my original comparison of building a team around B level players like Deng, Hinrich, Gordan to this core of Fred and Siakam and it not working out is true.

I don't see why you're trying to argue that a team with multiple lotto picks that they tanked for was a bad idea.

[720]

They lost in the first round 3 times and lost to Lebron in the Conference finals once before Rose's career altering injury. Sounds familiar.

How is that relevant to your first point where you basically combined the Deng era Bulls and Rose era bulls to make a point?

Even with that you're wrong.

They went to the ECF's and then the very next year rose has that injury in the first round, and they lose to the sixers. Had he not got hurt they would have went farther. Even after Rose had that injury they went on to get to the conference semi finals two more times (at this point Rose wasn't the same so I never thought they would get far but I point it out since you didn't even get the facts right).


Also again, this is deflection because my original comparison of building a team around B level players like Deng, Hinrich, Gordan to this core of Fred and Siakam and it not working out is true.

I don't see why you're trying to argue that a team with multiple lotto picks that they tanked for was a bad idea.

Where am I doing that? Again with the deflections.