Hoopshype.com execs poll: Top under 25 players to build around

[toooskies]

Scottie not even on the list? Trash list. And no way should Tatum be #2 on that list.

Scottie doesn’t strike me as a guy that you can build around, at least not yet. At best he’s been a very good supporting piece for a decent Toronto Raptors team. Compare that to Mobley, a guy who is already getting all defense consideration. That’s absurd. When you consider his age, skillset, and the numbers he’s currently putting up… that’s a pretty easy player to build around. Look at how well Cleveland has been playing despite still having some glaring holes in their roster. The comparison just isn’t there. I use Mobley as an example because he’s really the only rookie on this list who should be getting consideration, and if you ask me, he should be higher.

He's great, but can he be the best player on a championship team? Also, as with many of these youngins, how will they fare when their teams best players are gone and they are the go to guy being guarded by the best defenders, night in and night out, and having opposing defenses do everything they can do get the ball out of their hands?
We saw Siakam was amazing as a second fiddle to Kawahi. But as 'the man', he's been a ghost of that player.

I think Mobley has an easier path to get to the Tim Duncan/Kevin Garnett level than Scottie Barnes does to the Lebron/Kawhi level. (By no means is either path "easy" though, and in any case you need a good supporting cast to win a championship.) Mobley goes up a few levels just by growing into his body, Barnes may not have as much development left there.

[Duke4life831]

Bam, Ingram and MPJ? Really?

The latter two guys aren’t very good. The former is a glorified roleplayer.

Im not even a MPJ fan, but just in his 2nd year he put up 19/7 on 66 TS%.

The Pels this year when Ingram plays are 14-18 (14-17 when he plays at least 10 minutes). That roster is garbage and are 1-8 when he doesnt play. I mean the dude just put up 33/4/9 with a game winner last night.

To try and claim that either one of these guys arent good is ridiculous. Ya they might not be on the Luka level, but these guys are no doubt really damn good young basketball players and not that crazy to see how an exec may look at them pretty positively.

[oldncreaky]

Their numbers are nearly identical across the board. In his role on defense, Mobley has done exceedingly well but, he also isn't tasked with guarding the best perimeter players on the other team the same way that Barnes has.

Okay? Call me when we have instances of Barnes shutting down some of the best perimeter players, including one time in the final seconds, like Mobley has and then I'll be impressed.

You want to make an argument that Mobley's been better as a rookie, it will definitely have merit. But please stop with this nonsense that he's been head and shoulders above Barnes, because he hasn't been.

Yes, he has. His defensive impact far outweighs Barnes. The fact that their stats are nearly identical across the board with that in mind indicates that Barnes literally has no possible argument over Mobley right now.

They're both very good supporting pieces for decent teams. I don't know why you're acting like the Cavs are world beaters, when they're in 6th place in the East. Mobley's not out there, scoring 20 points and grabbing 10 boards a night, he's averaging 15 and 8... the same as Scottie Barnes.

Again, Mobley's defense has been the biggest impact he's had on the team, and right now, he's in all team defense consideration. That is leagues above what Barnes is doing right now. To claim Mobley is a supporting piece for Cleveland is downright laughable. He's literally anchoring their defense, which by the way is third in the league right now.

note. no allen or garland. i'm not saying the execs are right but this IS about perceived value,,,,for all those who this garland/allen are all that

I think the idea is that they're picking the most valuable player from each team. And while Mobley isn't the Cavaliers best player, he is certainly their most valuable one.

I’d take Mobley over Barnes too but people are really getting carried away with the Mobley praise. He’s not going to sniff all defense this year. He’s also not anchoring the defense of the Cavs in any way, shape or form; that would be Jarrett Allen. He’s been downright bad without Allen next to him on the court. He’s a very good defensive 4 who would get bullied mercilessly if he was drafted by any of the other top 4 teams and had to play the 5.

He will almost certainly never be more than a 3rd option on a championship team, which is good enough if you provide great defense. But I don’t really see him bulking out to be able to play center, as he doesn’t have the frame for it. He’s Chris Bosh, which is a great, HoF player. He’s certainly not Dwight or AD.

Before I weigh in on the Mobley v. Barnes debate, I just wanted to note that I think I've recently and1'd posts from all 3 of you, I watch most of all Raptor and Pistons games, and I don't think the opinions are far off.

This is a deep rookie classes. Really deep. In most years, you are lucky if you get 1 or 2 "franchise cornerstone" types who will be the best player on their team for a decade or so. This year, I think we have at least 3 (Cade, Mobley, Barnes) with a few more TBD (Wagner, Giddey) and a bunch of players who will be long-time starters who could still develop and get there eventually.

Mobley is having the best rookie season for a big since Tim Duncan, and he didn't have the benefit of 4 years at the highest level of NCAA competition as Timmy did. It is exceedingly rare for a young big to tilt the competitive landscape in the NBA, and Mobley has done that. His offence is raw, but promising. Most of his current shortcomings will be addressed in the next few years as he gets bigger and stronger.

Barnes has also been showing well, and in most years his level of performance would guarantee ROY, but not this year. He has been a just a little inconsistent on defence with a couple of bad games, but has also guarded some of the best including Tatum, KD, Harden and done very well. He can guard basically anyone, anywhere on the floor, and has great instincts for team defence. His offence is raw, but very diverse, and shows potential to develop as a small-ball-point-center, a big point-guard, or a big-wing creator -- or even a mix of all three.

Cade is just as special, but has the disadvantage of being the best player on a bad team and started slow because of injury. But watch him if you have the chance . . .

It is still very early, but to date I'd rank them overall as 1. Mobley 2. Barnes 3. Cade, with Cade gaining ground fast. I don't think there are any vast gaps. If we are looking at ceiling -- in a best case, how good can they be -- I'd rank them 1. Mobley 2. Barnes 3. Cade. For a floor, I'd rank them 1. Cade 2. Mobley 3. Barnes. All of them could make all-NBA teams (plural) in the future. No one is guaranteed. All will develop and improve. Any of them could still win this year's ROY.

I wouldn't be surprised if we look back in 10 years and consider this one of the top 2 or 3 drafts of all time. We should all just enjoy the ride . . .

Cheers!

[shakes0]

Bam, Ingram and MPJ? Really?

The latter two guys aren’t very good. The former is a glorified roleplayer.

MPJ put up 23 and 7 on 70% TS in the 30 games he was the 2nd option with Murray out, in his 2nd year, if you don't think that is good than you really should learn something about basketball.

3 back surgeries before he is 3 years into his career. Trust me, take it from someone who had 8 back surgeries and had to retire fro basketball after the 3rd one, he is basically done. He’ll still have his moments here and there, but he’ll never be completely healthy and his back issues will get progressively worse the more he plays. there isn’t a worse sport in the world for your back than basketball.

[VanWest82]

Yeah I gotta say that exec who voted for MPJ is definitely exhibiting some wishful thinking. I still can't believe Denver offered him that deal. Is it now the worst contract in the league?

I hope I'm wrong and MPJ makes a full recovery but this one doesn't look good given the history and his slight build.

Jokic only having one year left on his deal after this one is a very underrated and underdiscussed story.

[playa-hater]

This board is showing exactly why I never comment on here.. wow.

Clueless be as clueless does I guess.

[hauntedcomputer]

Building around any of these guys is a gamble compared to what Lebron, KD, and Giannis offered early on.


In Giannis' rookie season, averaging 25 minutes per game, he put up 7/4/2 on .414 FGA%. Numbers far below what Lebron, KD, Doncic and almost every player on this Hoopshype rookie list posted in their first season. Antetokounmpo became a top player through physical growth, hard work, and great focus. Only the most optimistic projection would have ever anticipated Giannis 2014 becoming Giannis 2022. And that underscores the peril of projecting tremendous growth of any rookie or second year player.

You're absolutely right. But I thought we were talking about players under 25, not rookies. Certainly by age 23 he was looking like something.

[Lalouie]

Okay? Call me when we have instances of Barnes shutting down some of the best perimeter players, including one time in the final seconds, like Mobley has and then I'll be impressed.



Yes, he has. His defensive impact far outweighs Barnes. The fact that their stats are nearly identical across the board with that in mind indicates that Barnes literally has no possible argument over Mobley right now.



Again, Mobley's defense has been the biggest impact he's had on the team, and right now, he's in all team defense consideration. That is leagues above what Barnes is doing right now. To claim Mobley is a supporting piece for Cleveland is downright laughable. He's literally anchoring their defense, which by the way is third in the league right now.



I think the idea is that they're picking the most valuable player from each team. And while Mobley isn't the Cavaliers best player, he is certainly their most valuable one.

I’d take Mobley over Barnes too but people are really getting carried away with the Mobley praise. He’s not going to sniff all defense this year. He’s also not anchoring the defense of the Cavs in any way, shape or form; that would be Jarrett Allen. He’s been downright bad without Allen next to him on the court. He’s a very good defensive 4 who would get bullied mercilessly if he was drafted by any of the other top 4 teams and had to play the 5.

He will almost certainly never be more than a 3rd option on a championship team, which is good enough if you provide great defense. But I don’t really see him bulking out to be able to play center, as he doesn’t have the frame for it. He’s Chris Bosh, which is a great, HoF player. He’s certainly not Dwight or AD.

Before I weigh in on the Mobley v. Barnes debate, I just wanted to note that I think I've recently and1'd posts from all 3 of you, I watch most of all Raptor and Pistons games, and I don't think the opinions are far off.

This is a deep rookie classes. Really deep. In most years, you are lucky if you get 1 or 2 "franchise cornerstone" types who will be the best player on their team for a decade or so. This year, I think we have at least 3 (Cade, Mobley, Barnes) with a few more TBD (Wagner, Giddey) and a bunch of players who will be long-time starters who could still develop and get there eventually.

Mobley is having the best rookie season for a big since Tim Duncan, and he didn't have the benefit of 4 years at the highest level of NCAA competition as Timmy did. It is exceedingly rare for a young big to tilt the competitive landscape in the NBA, and Mobley has done that. His offence is raw, but promising. Most of his current shortcomings will be addressed in the next few years as he gets bigger and stronger.

Barnes has also been showing well, and in most years his level of performance would guarantee ROY, but not this year. He has been a just a little inconsistent on defence with a couple of bad games, but has also guarded some of the best including Tatum, KD, Harden and done very well. He can guard basically anyone, anywhere on the floor, and has great instincts for team defence. His offence is raw, but very diverse, and shows potential to develop as a small-ball-point-center, a big point-guard, or a big-wing creator -- or even a mix of all three.

Cade is just as special, but has the disadvantage of being the best player on a bad team and started slow because of injury. But watch him if you have the chance . . .

It is still very early, but to date I'd rank them overall as 1. Mobley 2. Barnes 3. Cade, with Cade gaining ground fast. I don't think there are any vast gaps. If we are looking at ceiling -- in a best case, how good can they be -- I'd rank them 1. Mobley 2. Barnes 3. Cade. For a floor, I'd rank them 1. Cade 2. Mobley 3. Barnes. All of them could make all-NBA teams (plural) in the future. No one is guaranteed. All will develop and improve. Any of them could still win this year's ROY.

I wouldn't be surprised if we look back in 10 years and consider this one of the top 2 or 3 drafts of all time. We should all just enjoy the ride . . .

Cheers!

nobody ever cares about bringing W's to a franchise anymore. or turning a franchise around. it's all about the sizzle.

here's the best sizzle of the year! mobley dunk over turner. BEST DUNK OF THE YEAR!
it wasn't a running momentum dunk. it wasn't a "downhill" dunk. it wasn't a fastbreak dunk. and it wasn't a dunk over a trailing defender. and it wasn't an assisted dunk. it was a good old fashioned back down, turn around, chest to chest, man2man, in your face and ain't nuttin' you can do about it,,,dunk over one of the better defender in the league.

and mobley doesn't even have muscle yet. i don't know what y'all thinking mobley's not their best but he's they're most valuable

Watch on YouTube

[DusterBuster]

I'm sorry, I just don't get the Tatum love by everyone. I'll take Ja over him every day.

[The Real Dalic]

I personally think having MPJ over Wagner and Barnes is a little high. Mostly due to his injury history. But still a decent list overall. My list would be similar but I'm putting those 2 rookies over the two Nuggets players at the bottom of the list.

[bisme37]

I'm sorry, I just don't get the Tatum love by everyone. I'll take Ja over him every day.

I like Ja and several of the other guys a lot too. And imo it's hard to compare because they're apples and oranges. But as far as Tatum goes, I think maybe it's just a deal where you have to watch him more to really get it. People seem to think he's only a jump shooter and when his shot isn't falling at a high rate that means he sucks. But he does a lot of other stuff on the court on both ends, is supremely skilled and very impactful.

[BK_2020]

Who voted MPJ lol

[JonFromVA]

Of course GM's have admitted to passing the official NBA GM poll on to whoever was standing around at the time they received the request. So calling this an "executive poll" is likely a stretch if you presume they mean a POBO, GM, even an Assistant GM, but hey, even some random intern is probably pretty knowledgeable compared to say ESPN's reporter pool they often use.

[DusterBuster]

I'm sorry, I just don't get the Tatum love by everyone. I'll take Ja over him every day.

I like Ja and several of the other guys a lot too. And imo it's hard to compare because they're apples and oranges. But as far as Tatum goes, I think maybe it's just a deal where you have to watch him more to really get it. People seem to think he's only a jump shooter and when his shot isn't falling at a high rate that means he sucks. But he does a lot of other stuff on the court on both ends, is supremely skilled and very impactful.

I’ll take your word for it I guess. I admittedly don’t watch many Boston games, the ones I do tho, I never really notice Tatum’s impact on the game. He can get stats, but he’s not one of those players who I know is gonna just dominate my team every time.

[Hobo4President]

Lmao at Tatum, when is his "potential" gonna turn into a reality

[bisme37]

I'm sorry, I just don't get the Tatum love by everyone. I'll take Ja over him every day.

I like Ja and several of the other guys a lot too. And imo it's hard to compare because they're apples and oranges. But as far as Tatum goes, I think maybe it's just a deal where you have to watch him more to really get it. People seem to think he's only a jump shooter and when his shot isn't falling at a high rate that means he sucks. But he does a lot of other stuff on the court on both ends, is supremely skilled and very impactful.

I’ll take your word for it I guess. I admittedly don’t watch many Boston games, the ones I do tho, I never really notice Tatum’s impact on the game. He can get stats, but he’s not one of those players who I know is gonna just dominate my team every time.

In my memory Portland is one of the teams JT has killed quite a few times over his career. But yeah I guess he can be inconsistent as far as his shooting goes, so maybe it depends on which games you happen to catch. But again, there's more to him than just shooting.

[Ayt]

This board is showing exactly why I never comment on here.. wow.

Clueless be as clueless does I guess.

Calm down, Jayson.

Of course GM's have admitted to passing the official NBA GM poll on to whoever was standing around at the time they received the request. So calling this an "executive poll" is likely a stretch if you presume they mean a POBO, GM, even an Assistant GM, but hey, even some random intern is probably pretty knowledgeable compared to say ESPN's reporter pool they often use.

We also don't know when these were sent out. I can't imagine someone selecting MPJ after his back surgery.

[Nazrmohamed]

Scottie not even on the list? Trash list. And no way should Tatum be #2 on that list.

Scottie doesn’t strike me as a guy that you can build around, at least not yet. At best he’s been a very good supporting piece for a decent Toronto Raptors team. Compare that to Mobley, a guy who is already getting all defense consideration. That’s absurd. When you consider his age, skillset, and the numbers he’s currently putting up… that’s a pretty easy player to build around. Look at how well Cleveland has been playing despite still having some glaring holes in their roster. The comparison just isn’t there. I use Mobley as an example because he’s really the only rookie on this list who should be getting consideration, and if you ask me, he should be higher.

He's great, but can he be the best player on a championship team? Also, as with many of these youngins, how will they fare when their teams best players are gone and they are the go to guy being guarded by the best defenders, night in and night out, and having opposing defenses do everything they can do get the ball out of their hands?
We saw Siakam was amazing as a second fiddle to Kawahi. But as 'the man', he's been a ghost of that player.

For now I'll compare him to Siakum but I think he's way more fluid than that. I mean right now he looks like an immature unconfident version of Giannes and I feel qualified to say this cuz I thought Giannes was gonna be a star. His movements are similar, he doesn't yet realize he could be dominating the league with his skillset just yet. That and he hasn't filled out

[Ron Swanson]

Tatum certainly belongs on the list but yeah, I'm baffled by how many executives/GM's still think this highly of his potential going on Year 5 now. For all the comparisons he got/gets to guys like Kobe, Melo, Paul George, etc., he's been an atrociously bad ISO scorer for his career (0.89, 0.82, 1.00, and 0.63 points-per-possession the last 4 seasons). It's a good thing he turned himself into a really good defender (at least, when he wants to be), because when you also factor in that he's not a plus play-maker/passer, he might honestly be the league's most detrimental-team-offense player in relation to his usage (7th highest in the league).

[Pantsman]

Not sure I agree with trae over Mobley. Mobley is much more of a rear talent than trae. PGs are a dime a dozen.