Who has more value in the league right now - Fred VanVleet or Ben Simmons?

[bboyskinnylegs]

Would we even be willing to include any of our starters in a trade for Simmons at this point? Maybe Gary? I think the other 4 would be a clear-cut no.

[raptor jesus]

To me it's easily FVV, if the goal is to win a title. You can easily plug him into a contending roster as a complementary guy at his salary. Not sure how you do the same with Simmons, whose salary maxes out at nearly double that of FVV.

[Jcity08]

Oh its definitely FVV, there is no doubt, especially if he makes the Allstar game.

Ben Simmons still has value but this is a "what have you done for me lately" kinda league, and he hasnt played in this season yet, unable to build up value.

Its not even a contest for FVV.

[johanliebert]

I’d rather the 6’10 guy who can guard 1-5 and play 4 positions over Fred. To say otherwise you are delusional and I defend fred more than most on this board.

[johanliebert]

The poll results are embarrassing but explains the board. A very casual fan base.

[everdiso]

I’d rather the 6’10 guy who can guard 1-5 and play 4 positions over Fred. To say otherwise you are delusional and I defend fred more than most on this board.

I'd rather the elite shooter (and elite D too) than the guy who literally can't shoot.

One of them was a clutch must play 4th quarter guy on a championship squad, the other was unplayable in the 4th quarter of the 2nd round.

[Dennis 37]

Until Fred makes an all star and all NBA team...the optics will be that Ben is more valuable than Fred.

In a market like Toronto...unless you show out on a national TV broadcast, you make all star/all NBA or your team is a legit contender...American media will always undervalue our players.

By "in the league" and "value" I read that as a question for GMs and scouts, not media.

A heck of a lot of GMs would pick FVV over Simmons, if they had the cap space and open roster spot.

[toast]

I’d rather the 6’10 guy who can guard 1-5 and play 4 positions over Fred. To say otherwise you are delusional and I defend fred more than most on this board.

Simple theoretical question. If we traded Fred and Dragic (for salary) straight up for Ben. Does Philly make that deal right now? 100% they would. If that offer got leaked and Philly did for some unknown reason turn it down. You can bet that they would be crushed in the media.

More importantly though does this make Philly a better team? Absolutely. Would they be better currently than they ever were with Ben? Absolutely. Fred would be a dream fit on that team with Embid. As he would with 90% of the teams.

Does this make us better? Hell no. We would have absolutely no shooting.

That is why he has a better value. On a pure physical specimen way, Fred is no match for Ben. But for contributing to wins it isn't close. Most Gm's realize this by now.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Morey has same conclusion as you but for different reasons

Simmons has value?

With how the Raptors construct, where we are better off with shooters, I wouldn't trade VanVleet for Simmons alone.

you think so? remember that morey is a stats hound himself. so its not like he doesn't see what fvv could deliver for the sixers.
but he has a larger optics problem too. if he can't get a 'big name' he might not pull the trigger.

[Indeed]

Morey has same conclusion as you but for different reasons

Simmons has value?

With how the Raptors construct, where we are better off with shooters, I wouldn't trade VanVleet for Simmons alone.

you think so? remember that morey is a stats hound himself. so its not like he doesn't see what fvv could deliver for the sixers.
but he has a larger optics problem too. if he can't get a 'big name' he might not pull the trigger.

Best if they never try Simmons and have a dead salary in their book. Wouldn't mind having one less competitor

[KL78192020]

I’d rather the 6’10 guy who can guard 1-5 and play 4 positions over Fred. To say otherwise you are delusional and I defend fred more than most on this board.

Simple theoretical question. If we traded Fred and Dragic (for salary) straight up for Ben. Does Philly make that deal right now? 100% they would. If that offer got leaked and Philly did for some unknown reason turn it down. You can bet that they would be crushed in the media.

More importantly though does this make Philly a better team? Absolutely. Would they be better currently than they ever were with Ben? Absolutely. Fred would be a dream fit on that team with Embid. As he would with 90% of the teams.

Does this make us better? Hell no. We would have absolutely no shooting.

That is why he has a better value. On a pure physical specimen way, Fred is no match for Ben. But for contributing to wins it isn't close. Most Gm's realize this by now.

I don't think anyone knows what Simmons real value is at this point, its all conjecture. Once the trade is completed it'll be clear if he's worth more or less than FVV.

This thread should be posted on the general for a more unbiased opinion.

[mowcrowbar]

I'd take Ben Simmons if he's committed to play.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

We know what Simmons value is...nobody's calling.

They want to include Tobias Harris in any deal for Simmons too, that's just insane. What is Morey doing, he's going to get canned.

[brownbobcat]

To me it's easily FVV, if the goal is to win a title. You can easily plug him into a contending roster as a complementary guy at his salary. Not sure how you do the same with Simmons, whose salary maxes out at nearly double that of FVV.

I think VanVleet's average value is certainly higher than Simmons', and for that exact reason. Even if salary wasn't an issue, you could easily plug VanVleet seamlessly into 90% of teams across the league based on skillset.

What are you going to do with Simmons, try him out in a completely new role as a passing 5 in the high post? Because you're sure as hell not making him the lead guard.

[brownbobcat]

I’d rather the 6’10 guy who can guard 1-5 and play 4 positions over Fred. To say otherwise you are delusional and I defend fred more than most on this board.

On what planet can a guy who can't shoot, can't play off-ball and has zero post moves play 4 positions?

[PerfectJab]

I think people underestimate how much his attitude has effected his value. He obviously doesn't take criticism very well and if he was as elite as he is perceived by some he'd already be on another team.

Basically any team that trades for him will need to ensure that they do not upset him, work around his flaws otherwise risk the chance of him sitting out despite his contract. I'm sure many owners would love the opportunity to use their money to trade for a high risk low reward player!

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of GMs now view him as a finished product with questionable character. If he was perceived as a player that could improve his shot or a character guy teams would be jumping at the opportunity to get him.

Fred is a champion, low maintenance with good defense and a surprisingly efficient shot this year. He's actually improved quite a bit so I'd imagine more GMs would jump at the opportunity to obtain FVV than Simmons and this isn't even considering cap implications!

[Parataxis]

HadUsInTheFirstHalf.gif

Really it just depends on what your organization is looking for.

An elite 3+D point guard with top end leadership qualities.

Or a big/athletic underachiever with a bad attitude who lacks one of the most important skills in modern NBA basketball.

Really just depends who your franchise is run by

[lolekszmolek]

Fred is more valuable but Simmons is more expensive.

[billy_hoyle]

I think it's situational.

On our team, with OG, Siakam, and Barnes, I'd say FVV is more valuable.

On Sacramento, Minnesota, Memphis, San Antonio, Indiana, Phoenix, Portland, Houston, GSW, Brooklyn, Miami, Charlotte, and Atlanta all take Simmons.

The other teams (incl Philly) would want FVV.

So, pretty even split IMO

[HumbleRen]

Simmons.