Who has more value in the league right now - Fred VanVleet or Ben Simmons?

[Chandan]

simmons has 32 triple doubles. Fred has a fake one where the team had to force feed him the last 2 rebounds and assists.

[Basketball_Jones]

I’d rather the 6’10 guy who can guard 1-5 and play 4 positions over Fred. To say otherwise you are delusional and I defend fred more than most on this board.

On what planet can a guy who can't shoot, can't play off-ball and has zero post moves play 4 positions?

We have 3 players that can defend 1-5 (OG, Siakam, Barnes). Not as good as Ben, but our defense will get there eventually. We need a Center, shooters off the bench, and a go to clutch scorer. Ben provides none of this, we’d have to tank and find different pieces to build around him.

[mrdressup]

I will always side with the guy that is playing and isn't a cancer. Fred is a leader and has a solid head on his shoulders. Simmons is going to have a short career, imo.

[everdiso]

Best 3 Analytics Marks Career

BPM

Fred 5.3, 2.7, 2.5
Ben 4.5, 3.6, 3.6

Raptor

Fred 7.7, 4.9, 4.1
Ben 2.5, 2.3, 2.1

Lebron

Fred 3.3, 2.8, 2.4
Ben 2.1, 2.0, 1.8

[Johnny Bball]

Like the subject says. Taking value of contract into account as well, who could secure the greater haul if they both hit the trade market? Could Philly currently get a better player than Fred in a trade?

Fred isn't the better player but he's far and away a hundred times over the easier fit to a roster, especially any contender.

[Johnny Bball]

simmons has 32 triple doubles. Fred has a fake one where the team had to force feed him the last 2 rebounds and assists.

They force fed him assists?

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Like Jose motherfin Calderon they did!

[FluLikeSymptoms]

If you’re starting a team then probably Ben, because you could sell hope to fans more easily and buy yourself some time, but if you’re anywhere near winning there’s no real argument for Ben over Fred. Fred’s advantage on team offence is bigger than Ben’s advantage on team defence by a wide margin. Fred perseveres and did the thing, Ben shrinks. People love to bring up the Ben 3rd-team all NBA but Fred’s better now than Ben was then, and Ben famously has not improved at all. Ben is an awesome regular season defender, the all-D is legit, but Fred is really good and I’d love to see what he looked like with Embiid behind him. Like if Fred were in Philly last year instead of Ben, they slap the crap out of Atlanta.

[everdiso]

The real answer (s):

For dumb GMs: Simmons
For smart GMs: VanVleet

[deeps6x]

Would we even be willing to include any of our starters in a trade for Simmons at this point? Maybe Gary? I think the other 4 would be a clear-cut no.

I wouldn't do Gary for Ben. Not even straight up. Never mind trying to match the crazy salary they gave Simmons.

[lolwut]

Embiid would probably rather want to play with VanVleet instead of Simmons right now.

[ontnut]

simmons has 32 triple doubles. Fred has a fake one where the team had to force feed him the last 2 rebounds and assists.

Westbrook has a billion triple doubles and nobody wants him on their team.
So, maybe we should stop using triple doubles as a measuring stick for anything these days?

[brownbobcat]

If you’re starting a team then probably Ben, because you could sell hope to fans more easily and buy yourself some time, but if you’re anywhere near winning there’s no real argument for Ben over Fred. Fred’s advantage on team offence is bigger than Ben’s advantage on team defence by a wide margin. Fred perseveres and did the thing, Ben shrinks. People love to bring up the Ben 3rd-team all NBA but Fred’s better now than Ben was then, and Ben famously has not improved at all. Ben is an awesome regular season defender, the all-D is legit, but Fred is really good and I’d love to see what he looked like with Embiid behind him. Like if Fred were in Philly last year instead of Ben, they slap the crap out of Atlanta.

Ben's a lot better than the "triple-single" guy we last saw in Atlanta. But the flaws in his game are so glaring that it's hard to see him ever being anything better than 3rd/4th option on a good team, he's basically a taller Rondo without the toughness.

On a terrible team, he could lift the floor better than Fred. But if I'm looking for a guy that can defend, hit shots and all the other little things, that's FVV all the way.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

If you’re starting a team then probably Ben, because you could sell hope to fans more easily and buy yourself some time, but if you’re anywhere near winning there’s no real argument for Ben over Fred. Fred’s advantage on team offence is bigger than Ben’s advantage on team defence by a wide margin. Fred perseveres and did the thing, Ben shrinks. People love to bring up the Ben 3rd-team all NBA but Fred’s better now than Ben was then, and Ben famously has not improved at all. Ben is an awesome regular season defender, the all-D is legit, but Fred is really good and I’d love to see what he looked like with Embiid behind him. Like if Fred were in Philly last year instead of Ben, they slap the crap out of Atlanta.

Ben's a lot better than the "triple-single" guy we last saw in Atlanta. But the flaws in his game are so glaring that it's hard to see him ever being anything better than 3rd/4th option on a good team, he's basically a taller Rondo without the toughness.

On a terrible team, he could lift the floor better than Fred. But if I'm looking for a guy that can defend, hit shots and all the other little things, that's FVV all the way.

Ben made it to the 2nd round 3 times and his only good effort was 2018. Wasn’t a concern v us in ‘19, missed the bubble playoffs, did what he did last season. Under real scrutiny he’s quite solvable, even if he’s the 3rd or 4th problem on the team. Like you solve him without conceding anything else and the defence just isn’t that special, certainly not special enough to cancel out the offence. And he’s not done anything to outrun the scouting report which is closing in, so I just don’t see the value to a serious team. Sacramento, sure. Fred fits everywhere, makes every team better no matter what they have or what they want to do.

[Basketball_Jones]

simmons has 32 triple doubles. Fred has a fake one where the team had to force feed him the last 2 rebounds and assists.

Westbrook has a million triple doubles

[720]

Simmons

[SHFT]

At this exact second, FVV has more value because Simmons has fully tanked his and the nobody is trading a FVV calibre player for him. Not to mention FVVs stock is on a steep incline.

Until / if he is traded, that will remain to be true. The second he is traded for we can re visit because peak Ben Simmons is a walking triple double and a dpoy candidate. The only reason this is a discussion is because he has tanking his value to historic levels.

And I love FVV and wouldn't touch Simmons with a 10 foot pole but some franchise will be dumb enough to do that because he is legitimately very talented.

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[Ref_from_hell]

simmons has 32 triple doubles. Fred has a fake one where the team had to force feed him the last 2 rebounds and assists.

I guess Westbrook is better than both of them then based on your logic.

Another terrible take

[NeoDragonKnight]

Fred obviously, it isnt even about ability which is debatable, it's the fact Simmons is sitting and there was so much drama, and Morey is impossible to work with. Every week this drags on his value keeps dropping and less and less GMs will want to even bother talking to Morey. This is one of the worst handlings of a player on both ends I have ever seen in over 20 years.

[NeoDragonKnight]

Just to bring up the old asking price last year from Morey for Ben from the Raptors was, OG, Kyle, FVV AND the Pick (Barnes)...And Morey is asking for equal or more right now...