Pascal Siakam - Back or Fools gold?

[GiannisAnte34]

What report? Show me which report said Masai offered Siakam to GS and was turned down.

Every Raps fan agrees that Siakam is #2 at best. You agreed that he could only be a #3 on a good team and wasn't #2 on our championship team, now you're saying he can be the #2 on a championship team? C'mon bro, don't fall apart now. Why exactly is Siakam not "legit"? Because a Raps fan made you cry a few years back or something?

You said it yourself. Middleton isn’t a legit #2 either, he needs the perfect circumstances which is having an MVP #1 and a #3 who is pretty much just as good as him. That’s exactly the case for Spicy with Kawhi and Lowry. He isn’t “legit” because a team can’t always expect to get the best of a player, because certain players thrive when conditions are better for them and crumble when they aren’t. Spicy crumbled last year under the circumstances, teams figured out his little spin move and he sucked. Sorry it hurts your feels so much but you can stop projecting your tears.

We aren't expecting Siakam to be any better than Middleton, why are you?

Also, where's that report?

That’s a lie… 2019-20 Raps fans were constantly talking about him being a potential MVP or top 5 or top 10 or top 15 player in the league. That’s a much higher expectation than Middleton

There is no report, it was already clearly expressed that it was a trade rumor leading up to draft night

[realball]

You said it yourself. Middleton isn’t a legit #2 either, he needs the perfect circumstances which is having an MVP #1 and a #3 who is pretty much just as good as him. That’s exactly the case for Spicy with Kawhi and Lowry. He isn’t “legit” because a team can’t always expect to get the best of a player, because certain players thrive when conditions are better for them and crumble when they aren’t. Spicy crumbled last year under the circumstances, teams figured out his little spin move and he sucked. Sorry it hurts your feels so much but you can stop projecting your tears.

We aren't expecting Siakam to be any better than Middleton, why are you?

Also, where's that report?

That’s a lie… 2019-20 Raps fans were constantly talking about him being a potential MVP or top 5 or top 10 or top 15 player in the league. That’s a much higher expectation than Middleton

There is no report, it was already clearly expressed that it was a trade rumor leading up to draft night

Right so some Raps fans two years ago said he could be MVP and now you're still butthurt about it... makes complete sense. Do you see any Raps fans still saying that? We all agree he's not a #1. Cry me a river.

So once again, you saying Siakam isn't worth Wiseman/Kuminga was just a bunch of nonsense then, right? Because you don't really know what was offered and who turned what down?

[Got Nuffin]

The rumours involved GSW and Sacramento expressing interest in Siakam for various pieces, not the other way around. I don't remember Toronto having any stance on it until they officially said Siakam is unavailable in any trade talk a bit later on. I guess Masai himself knew that trading Siakam at that point would be selling low on him.

I'm sure if / when Siakam is traded this off season it will be for something worthwhile. No doubt he had a poor showing post-championship, but whether you call him 2nd or 3rd option or wht he was a huge problem for every post-season team we faced in the Kawhi year, and as i said before, right now he is really balling and pretty much back to that form now.

[Floody100]

28th in PPG
29th in RPG
48th in APG
97th in SPG
77th in BPG
190th in FG%
287th in 3pt%
316th in FT%

He’s a high end roll player & the 3rd best player on a championship team ... which is exactly what he was when the Raptors won the championship.

It’s funny because a lot of us tried to tell the Raptors fan base that the 2019/20 season was going to be his peak & while he was awarded with all-NBA honours & an all star selection he’s nothing more than a borderline all star at his best.

If I’m the Raptors Organisation the only player I’m keeping is Scottie Barnes.
Sell Vanvleet & Siakam right now while their at the peak so you can the most value out of them.

[JN61]

Someone has to score. I think stuff like this really comes down to streakiness. Sign of all-stars and superstars is they can do performances like this on nightly basis. If Siakam can't he isn't an all-star caliber player. Doesn't matter if he doesn't just get in since competition is hard, but he has to play on such level nightly basis to be that guy. Sign of roleplayer, especially on a bad team is one who can score 30 other night and then back to 15, then 20 and then 8, then 10 and followed by another 25 game, etc. I think averages often lie on things like this especially on bad teams.

Why Durant is so great? It's not because he can go for 40 or 50. It's because he gives you 30 every damn night. Durant has just 6 games under 25 this year. For siakam 10/25 games are bellow 20 points. Judging his most recent games there haven't been too many of them so that's good. Has he turned it around? Hard to tell when he plays for a bad team.

[pingpongrac]

28th in PPG
29th in RPG
48th in APG
97th in SPG
77th in BPG
190th in FG%
287th in 3pt%
316th in FT%

He’s a high end roll player & the 3rd best player on a championship team ... which is exactly what he was when the Raptors won the championship.

It’s funny because a lot of us tried to tell the Raptors fan base that the 2019/20 season was going to be his peak & while he was awarded with all-NBA honours & an all star selection he’s nothing more than a borderline all star at his best.

If I’m the Raptors Organisation the only player I’m keeping is Scottie Barnes.
Sell Vanvleet & Siakam right now while their at the peak so you can the most value out of them.

There are less than 10 players in the entire league that are averaging 20 PPG, 7 REB, 4 AST. Durant, LeBron, Giannis, Embiid, Jokic, Doncic, George, Harden...and Siakam (20.7 PPG, 8.3 REB, 4.6 AST). Siakam obviously isn't quite on the same level of some of those superstars, but he is an all-star talent. He already has been the 2nd option on a Championship team, so I don't know why you are claiming he is nothing but a 3rd option.

[OdomFan]

I supposed the real test would be if Siakam can do well in the post season come playoff time if the Raptors manage to maintain that 8th seed or get a higher one by then.

[cupcakesnake]

I’m curious what people think about a Wiggins Siakam trade now. Both players have stepped up.

Like... straight up? I do not think Wiggins approaches Siakam's trade value at all. At the beginning of the season (before Wiggins was good), I remember him being the salary matching piece in a larger Siakam trade (Wiggins + some combination of young guys and/or picks). Now I think Wiggins is too valuable to the Warriors to be salary filler, but I don't think he's gotten to the point where you could trade him for a star, regardless of what the fan vote say. I think a lot of the league still views Wiggins as a guy that needs to be in the right situation, rather than a player who's going to give you efficient production no matter.

To add onto this, the fit for each player coming back is much worse than the status quo. Wiggins excels in Golden State because he isn't asked to be a primary scorer and can feast off the attention that the other guys bring to the table. He has developed into a sniper from the arc, currently sitting at 42.1% on 5.3 attempts (46.7% from the corners). He also has the task of guarding the most potent perimeter player on any given night.

Even with Curry and Klay backcourt and frontcourt of Pascal, Dray and Looney would be dreadful. Over the past few years, Pascal has also become more dominant with the team make up and he'd lose plenty of touches in GS with Dray being the primary ball handler. Wiggins would fill some holes with our starting unit in regards to spacing but we'd still be stuck with same issues we have currently. No real #1 option and we'd lose another valuable ball handler/play maker. OG and Barnes are both capable of manning the 4, but its one of those trade scenarios where I believe both teams value/would rather have their current player in uniform.

I think Pascal would step into Looney's role, not start on the wing. I think Siakam would thrive in Golden State, because his playstyle really lines up with all their principles: scamper and communicate on defense, move the ball aggressively on offense. They loooove smart hustle guys. Looney is a 6'9" 220lbs. smart hustle guy, Siakam is a 6'9" 220lbs. hustle guy that can handle, pass, post-up, and shoot a little bit. Dubs divide a lot of minutes between Looney, JTA, Iggy etc. Siakam could do what they do better for 30mpg.

Dubs would miss Wiggins though. He definitely plays an important role with his on-ball defense, being their most playable wing, shooting the ball well this season. All his bounce and attacking ability is a nice bonus for them at that position. I'm not sure when/if Klay will be playing high level defense, so having Wiggins as the point of attack defender is pretty important to what they do. Maybe it opens more minutes for Kuminga, or Siakam just keeps Kuminga on the bench. Coincidentally, my draft comp for Kuminga was: stronger Siakam with less intangibles.

On Toronto's end, I think the Wiggins fit sucks. He'd go back to being an inefficient wing scorer. Good enough to put up shots and get his 20, but nowhere near good enough to lift your offense. He's not a massively different player than Gary Trent Jr. Maybe he works out long term next to Barnes and OG, but I wouldn't be excited as a Raptors fan. Would be cool for the Canadian reason, but I'd need draft compensation and a young guy to feel like Toronto got fair return.

[YogurtProducer]

Wiggins+Poole for Siakam? That's a lot of scoring and both players are younger than Siakam.

I don't think GS would do this simply because the current team is doing well, but if I were gunning for Siakam that would likely be my top offer as a GM.

The offer (or reported) was Wiggins/Kuminga/Moody. That is what it would have to be for Masai to even call back.

With Curry (and now Klay), Siakam would have all the space in the world to post up and find shooters. Something he doesn’t have as well in TO. I don’t know how the Siakam/Dray fit would work, but Barnes/Siakam seems to work fine and Dray is a much more polished and smarter player so I can’t see it mattering much

Wiggins is the better 3 point shooter, Siakam is the better literally everything else and by a laaaarge margin.

[YogurtProducer]

28th in PPG
29th in RPG
48th in APG
97th in SPG
77th in BPG
190th in FG%
287th in 3pt%
316th in FT%

He’s a high end roll player & the 3rd best player on a championship team ... which is exactly what he was when the Raptors won the championship.

It’s funny because a lot of us tried to tell the Raptors fan base that the 2019/20 season was going to be his peak & while he was awarded with all-NBA honours & an all star selection he’s nothing more than a borderline all star at his best.

If I’m the Raptors Organisation the only player I’m keeping is Scottie Barnes.
Sell Vanvleet & Siakam right now while their at the peak so you can the most value out of them.

His peak is an all-nba talent. It literally happened so you can’t try and change the narrative now so unless you consider the 2nd and 3rd all-nba teams role players, you’re just wrong.

A healthy Siakam (which we haven’t had since his all-nba season) is easily a top 15-20 guy in the NBA. Not many dudes can put up 20/7/5 and play his level of defence.

[mademan]

As a first option scoring wise, he's still not great. But he's switchable, long, one of the best ball handling/playmaking PF's in the league while being able to expose mismatches. He's very valuable on a team that has strong scoring (think he'd thrive beside Trae playing the draymond role offensively)

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Isn’t doing anything unsustainable. Would like him to up his FT% to up his TS% though

[Duffman100]

28th in PPG
29th in RPG
48th in APG
97th in SPG
77th in BPG
190th in FG%
287th in 3pt%
316th in FT%

You say it that way and it seems not impressive. But there are 5 players who are averaging at least 20, 8 and 4 this year.

Giannis
Jokic
Embiid
Luka

and

Siakam

Obviously Siakam isn't on the level of those guys, but he's above being an 'elite level role player'.

[dkb965]

Either people don't watch the Raptors play or are just being trolls trying to rile up Raptors fans. Siakam would be the perfect number #2 option next to a Dončić or Young. He is a 2 way player that can do everything and if his shot can get back to where it has been in the past he can elevate himself to being back in the All-NBA team conversation. Posters calling him a role player sound like idiots.

[Duffman100]

Someone has to score. I think stuff like this really comes down to streakiness. Sign of all-stars and superstars is they can do performances like this on nightly basis. If Siakam can't he isn't an all-star caliber player. Doesn't matter if he doesn't just get in since competition is hard, but he has to play on such level nightly basis to be that guy. Sign of roleplayer, especially on a bad team is one who can score 30 other night and then back to 15, then 20 and then 8, then 10 and followed by another 25 game, etc. I think averages often lie on things like this especially on bad teams.

Why Durant is so great? It's not because he can go for 40 or 50. It's because he gives you 30 every damn night. Durant has just 6 games under 25 this year. For siakam 10/25 games are bellow 20 points. Judging his most recent games there haven't been too many of them so that's good. Has he turned it around? Hard to tell when he plays for a bad team.

I wouldn't say the Raptors are a 'bad team'. Mediocre? Yes. Bad, No.

And the problem is they're mediocre because they've got the worst bench in the league. FVV, Siakam, OG, Barnes and Trent have actually been good. It just falls off a cliff after that.

Pascal is somewhere between a roleplayer and Durant. Durant being probably the best player in the league and one of the best in history, so that's a tough comparison.

[JN61]

Someone has to score. I think stuff like this really comes down to streakiness. Sign of all-stars and superstars is they can do performances like this on nightly basis. If Siakam can't he isn't an all-star caliber player. Doesn't matter if he doesn't just get in since competition is hard, but he has to play on such level nightly basis to be that guy. Sign of roleplayer, especially on a bad team is one who can score 30 other night and then back to 15, then 20 and then 8, then 10 and followed by another 25 game, etc. I think averages often lie on things like this especially on bad teams.

Why Durant is so great? It's not because he can go for 40 or 50. It's because he gives you 30 every damn night. Durant has just 6 games under 25 this year. For siakam 10/25 games are bellow 20 points. Judging his most recent games there haven't been too many of them so that's good. Has he turned it around? Hard to tell when he plays for a bad team.

I wouldn't say the Raptors are a 'bad team'. Mediocre? Yes. Bad, No.

And the problem is they're mediocre because they've got the worst bench in the league. FVV, Siakam, OG, Barnes and Trent have actually been good. It just falls off a cliff after that.

Pascal is somewhere between a roleplayer and Durant. Durant being probably the best player in the league and one of the best in history, so that's a tough comparison.

But you are just arguing about semantics, if Raptors didn't have good spree of games recently they wouldn't even be in the playoff picture right now. Point still stands that he puts up numbers on a team that isn't anything but at the best first round exit. Likely will miss the playoffs so his raw numbers are inflated and his impact on winning questionable in sense of all-star caliber players. What is encouraging is he isn't as streaky this year as he has been in some of previous years. Is he on that borderline all-star level? Maybe but as said his numbers are inflated while not playing that meaningful basketball from the classical sense of your play impacting winning.

[Duffman100]

Someone has to score. I think stuff like this really comes down to streakiness. Sign of all-stars and superstars is they can do performances like this on nightly basis. If Siakam can't he isn't an all-star caliber player. Doesn't matter if he doesn't just get in since competition is hard, but he has to play on such level nightly basis to be that guy. Sign of roleplayer, especially on a bad team is one who can score 30 other night and then back to 15, then 20 and then 8, then 10 and followed by another 25 game, etc. I think averages often lie on things like this especially on bad teams.

Why Durant is so great? It's not because he can go for 40 or 50. It's because he gives you 30 every damn night. Durant has just 6 games under 25 this year. For siakam 10/25 games are bellow 20 points. Judging his most recent games there haven't been too many of them so that's good. Has he turned it around? Hard to tell when he plays for a bad team.

I wouldn't say the Raptors are a 'bad team'. Mediocre? Yes. Bad, No.

And the problem is they're mediocre because they've got the worst bench in the league. FVV, Siakam, OG, Barnes and Trent have actually been good. It just falls off a cliff after that.

Pascal is somewhere between a roleplayer and Durant. Durant being probably the best player in the league and one of the best in history, so that's a tough comparison.

But you are just arguing about semantics, if Raptors didn't have good spree of games recently they wouldn't even be in the playoff picture right now. Point still stands that he puts up numbers on a team that isn't anything but at the best first round exit. Likely will miss the playoffs so his raw numbers are inflated and his impact on winning questionable in sense of all-star caliber players. What is encouraging is he isn't as streaky this year as he has been in some of previous years. Is he on that borderline all-star level? Maybe but as said his numbers are inflated while not playing that meaningful basketball from the classical sense of your play impacting winning.

Well it's not semantics unless you believe there are two classes of teams - Good and Bad. There is an entire spectrum of terrible to elite.

But the Raps did have a streak of games and it's entirely on the back of FVV and Siakam. If the Raps had even a middle of the road bench, they'd be in the 5th or 6th seed.

Only so much you can do when you're playing with Flynn, Yuta, Precious, Birch, Boucher, Svi. I mean cmon...that's just awful.

[TheSniper007]

Fool's gold, has never been anything better than a 3rd option on a championship or 2nd option on a treadmill type team. You can forcefeed him the ball and gets state but he is a low IQ player, he is somewhat predictable offensively and doesn't adjust.

For everyone saying is in the one of the only players that X this and X that and putting him in the same sentence as Durant and Jokic needs to give their head a shake.

You have seen walk-ons due to covid come in and light up the stat sheet. On a proper contending team his stats would take a hit, but hey, right now you have to give him the ball.

Give his touches to Barnes for development. If the raps make the playoffs watch how fast he gets shutdown and made an example of.

[dkb965]

Fool's gold, has never been anything better than a 3rd option on a championship or 2nd option on a treadmill type team. You can forcefeed him the ball and gets state but he is a low IQ player, he is somewhat predictable offensively and doesn't adjust.

For everyone saying is in the one of the only players that X this and X that and putting him in the same sentence as Durant and Jokic needs to give their head a shake.

You have seen walk-ons due to covid come in and light up the stat sheet. On a proper contending team his stats would take a hit, but hey, right now you have to give him the ball.

Give his touches to Barnes for development. If the raps make the playoffs watch how fast he gets shutdown and made an example of.

Do you see walk-ons do this?

Watch on YouTube

Give your head a shake ball boy.

[Duffman100]

For everyone saying is in the one of the only players that X this and X that and putting him in the same sentence as Durant and Jokic needs to give their head a shake.

But ... they are. It's just stats.

It speaks to Pascal's versatility.