[Fischer] Toronto A Team To Keep An Eye On For Myles Turner Trade

[JB7]

C's are shooting 54% against Turner this year and players are shooting 49% overall against him.
C's are shooting 43% against Precious this year and players are shooting 46% overall against him.

Turner will get you more blocks and he's a bigger interior presence but I'm not convinced that the defense will dramatically improve because Precious has been very good on that end.

Where you will see a noticeable improvement is offensively because Turner hits 3s on pretty good volume and he's pretty efficient overall. But how much is this really worth to a team like the Raptors who aren't expected to contend?

It's not worth "multiple 1st round picks" or whatever other Cadillac asking price they want for him. People saying trade a bunch of our guys for him? OG? Are they nuts?

I wouldn't trade for him either. But if I had to make an offer, the most I'd give up is a lottery protected 1st, a young guy like Flynn and expirings.

It is not just the assets the team would need to move (like a FRP), but it is also the contract that would be a deterrent. $18M in the short term is not cheap for a guy that just moves the needle a bit on offense, and probably weakens the team defensively, and then he probably costs you $20+M after next season.

Turner is a move a desperate team will make because they think it might improve them - such as Dallas.

[OakleyDokely]

It's not worth "multiple 1st round picks" or whatever other Cadillac asking price they want for him. People saying trade a bunch of our guys for him? OG? Are they nuts?

I wouldn't trade for him either. But if I had to make an offer, the most I'd give up is a lottery protected 1st, a young guy like Flynn and expirings.

It is not just the assets the team would need to move (like a FRP), but it is also the contract that would be a deterrent. $18M in the short term is not cheap for a guy that just moves the needle a bit on offense, and probably weakens the team defensively, and then he probably costs you $20+M after next season.

Turner is a move a desperate team will make because they think it might improve them - such as Dallas.

Turner in Charlotte makes some sense as well as they may want to speed up the timeline.

But ya, I don't want to be the team to give him 100 million or whatever he will ask for. He will probably want the Jarrett Allen deal.

[Tor_Raps]

dragic + achiuwa and a lotto protected first

but that being said, who sits at end of game, i feel nurse will give turner the short end of the stick there, and for that reason i am not that interested in turner.

closing lineup has 4 fixed players, barnes; pascal, og, fvv. comes down to turner and trent for the 5th spot.

Isn't that a great problem to have? If we need to go big, we close with Turner. If we need to go small, we go with Trent.

Being able to give the opposition different looks is very important. It's part of why Gasol and Ibaka at C was awesome. Heck, there were times when we needed to play both and we wouldn't have gotten past the Sixers series in 2019 if we didn't.

[rarefind]

Committing to Turner long term is a treadmill move.

Stick to the plan of asset collection and when the time is right you push your chips all in and make a trade to become a Championship contender. MLSE (post covid) isn't worried about fans not being interested in watching this process and buying tickets. There is no pressure to speed up the timeline and lessen the ceiling we can possibly get to make money now - they already are.

The team should only be interested in trading for guys who can become assets here (either towards winning or potential trade chips) OR landing guys who can help you win a chip. Turner satisfies none of the criteria in that regard and is a pass from me.

[Tor_Raps]

I'd rather play and develop an inexpensive talent like Precious than give up significant assets for a player like Turner who isn't a star and who isn't cheap.

Honestly, I'd prefer to do both if possible. Not trying to get a good/young starting Center because you put all your eggs in the Precious basket doesn't seem like the best way to go imo.

Let Precious be a backup and develop while we have Turner to start. The day it ever comes to Precious needing starter minutes is the day we'll make the necessary move.

A package without Precious would probably look like Dragic/Boucher/Flynn/2022 1st Rounder/Future 2nd Rounder for Turner/Lamb.

[Raps1103]

if Turner is unhappy with his role on the Pacers, it's hard to see him being happy with the role he'd get here. And multiple firsts would be out of the question.

Also question his fit on the roster. He couldn't play with a dominant big and he's coming here to play with Barnes and Pascal. We also need to ask the question what do we want our C to do in this line-up. That I'm not sure.

I think as a big who doesn't eat up space in the paint on offense he allows our guys to ISO and create.

As a good option on any pick and pop he has the jumper to make teams pay for loading up on the driver.

Finally, if people load up on FVV up top on the perimeter he can sit in the highpost and be an outlet. Not sure how great a playmaker he would be but he is an upgrade over push shot Birch and clank bro Achuiwa. Even if you want Scottie in that role you can easily move Turner to the corners.

I think OG is logical to be dealt since Scottie could step into that role. Turner provides options.

Uhhh what ?? Did U forget the green font ?
OG isn’t being traded… he especially isn’t being traded for Miles Turner .. yikes

[canada_dry]

Same guy dans hated on for his scottie draft prediction.

PUT SOME RESPECK ON HIS NAME

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[kj_]

I think if you can get a 1st and a young player with some promise from another team for GTJ you consider it given his player option in the 3rd year and that you can't extend him before that.

So I would do GTJ for THT, Nunn and a Lakers 2027

And then trade Our 1st, Lakers pick, Flynn, Dragic for Turner

I know that THT has a similar contract structure to GTJ but he has more growth potential as a player/asset than what GTJ does in my opinion. Obviously I could be horribly wrong but that is why you need a 1st thrown in.

There was a YouTube video that was posted not to long ago proposing a three team trade where lakers get Trent Jr. and we get Turner..

Smokes a swirling maybe.

Is Gary playing tonight?

Fred
Scottie
OG
Pascal
Myles

is HUGE!

I’d be down with that!

Trading away gambling steals for shot blocking on D.

Swapping shot creating black hole with a stretch big.

Then Precious, Birch and Boucher are the first 3 off the bench.

JUMBO!


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[redeye514]

If Masai makes this move, it would be similar to that of the GTJ deal in the sense that it has to check 3 boxes:

1. They feel the player can fit long term + has upside still, not just a move for the now;
2. They have a sense of what the player's extension would cost + are willing to pay it; and
3. The assets given up to get him now is not too steep (ie. combo of Dragic-to-3rd-team-pieces / Flynn / Boucher / A future pick)

If the above 3 points check off, I can see us making this move... but if any of those 3 points do not check off, then we will take a pass.

At the end of the day, you just gotta trust Masai + our talent evaluators to make the right move for the long term.

[tecumseh18]

Also question his fit on the roster. He couldn't play with a dominant big and he's coming here to play with Barnes and Pascal. We also need to ask the question what do we want our C to do in this line-up. That I'm not sure.

I think as a big who doesn't eat up space in the paint on offense he allows our guys to ISO and create.

As a good option on any pick and pop he has the jumper to make teams pay for loading up on the driver.

Finally, if people load up on FVV up top on the perimeter he can sit in the highpost and be an outlet. Not sure how great a playmaker he would be but he is an upgrade over push shot Birch and clank bro Achuiwa. Even if you want Scottie in that role you can easily move Turner to the corners.

I think OG is logical to be dealt since Scottie could step into that role. Turner provides options.

Uhhh what ?? Did U forget the green font ?
OG isn’t being traded… he especially isn’t being traded for Miles Turner .. yikes

Dalek is fixated on trading OG. But OG is a WAY better player than Turner. Pacers would be over the moon if we made them such an offer. Which ... we most definitely will not.

Here's my offer: Dragic, Boucher and Flynn and a protected 2022 first for Turner and Lamb. The salaries line up perfectly. So perfectly, that it seems destined to be.

[edit] Actually, that's not gonna work. To stay under the tax, Raptors can't send out more players in a salary-equal trade than we take back, because we'd have to replace them for the minimum, which would take us over the tax.

[canada_dry]

Also something to note: Raptors were willing to give up a first round pick for ibaka. Shouldn't be out of play if we play well this month and are buyers this deadline either.

Multiple firsts? Probably not. But i think the pacers will find few willing to match their ask.

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[Badonkadonk]

I think Bobby/Masai would bet on their own ability to find a defensive 5 with a couple of FRPs over trading them for Turner.

[dagger]

I think as a big who doesn't eat up space in the paint on offense he allows our guys to ISO and create.

As a good option on any pick and pop he has the jumper to make teams pay for loading up on the driver.

Finally, if people load up on FVV up top on the perimeter he can sit in the highpost and be an outlet. Not sure how great a playmaker he would be but he is an upgrade over push shot Birch and clank bro Achuiwa. Even if you want Scottie in that role you can easily move Turner to the corners.

I think OG is logical to be dealt since Scottie could step into that role. Turner provides options.

Uhhh what ?? Did U forget the green font ?
OG isn’t being traded… he especially isn’t being traded for Miles Turner .. yikes

Dalek is fixated on trading OG. But OG is a WAY better player than Turner. Pacers would be over the moon if we made them such an offer. Which ... we most definitely will not.

Here's my offer: Dragic, Boucher and Flynn and a protected 2022 first for Turner and Lamb. The salaries line up perfectly. So perfectly, that it seems destined to be.

[edit] Actually, that's not gonna work. To stay under the tax, Raptors can't send out more players in a salary-equal trade than we take back, because we'd have to replace them for the minimum, which would take us over the tax.

In Koreen's rundown of Raptor trade tiers, he has two players - Scottie and OG - in the untouchable category. FVV and PS are in the next tier, as in only traded as part of a blockbuster. I'm inclined to agree.

[kj_]

It's not a good year to participate in the trade market. There's no obvious finalists and a lot of teams that are in the mix to make playoff runs. The Raptors likely have a bid on some of these guys, but they have never been the type to trade future firsts to support a middling team (which is what they currently have).

Well, that's the issue, isn't it? Are the Raptors a middling team? They nearly (and should have) just beaten the team with the best record in the league, while missing two starters. But we just haven't seen the healthy vs. healthy games that allow conclusions to be drawn.

Lack of depth is killing us. We see how the depth on the Heat is keeping them afloat while missing one or two all-star level players. So what if we can somehow add Eric Gordon and Turner without touching the Fred-GTJ-Scottie-OG-Pascal core?

Masai traded a FRP for Serge and two (late, late) seconds for PJ Tucker a few years ago, after that core had proven itself before the trade deadline. I expect the same thing to happen this year. Too bad Saturday's game against the white-hot Bucks is a B2B, because beating them would be a real statement game. And then the Heat on Monday, another 3rd game in four nights situation. Perhaps a couple of moral or actual victories in those games would incentivize the Raptors to act. Apparently, 2022 is a pretty weak draft class.

There is danger here in over-valuing the current roster. Yes, they are finally healthy and winning. But those wins are against depleted teams.

Making a big move too soon could really set the ceiling at a point lower than you want.

That said… if the team is as good as they appear with room to grow internally with Barnes, maybe now is the time to strike. If you believe the bench is really holding this team back, then maybe now is the time to strike as the bench can be bolstered most easily and incrementally.

I’m of the mind that Turner is a piece I move on if it only costs GTJ and say Boucher as filler. I could be convinced to add a first but I wouldn’t be happy about it because that is a cost controlled path to improving the bench.


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[canada_dry]

We could at the end of the day throw two 2nd round picks at the magic for bamba instead. They're asking for a 1st but by deadline they'll probably lower their ask.

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[Cool-Hand-Luke]

If the price is right, Masai should jump on this. However, in no way shape or form should Masai leverage our future to bring Turner in. I'm sure Indiana is fielding a ton of offers for Turner. I doubt the price will be low enough for us to be a serious destination.

[WeThe2019Champs]

Don't see we doing any big trades only small moves like for 2nd round picks.

[kj_]

He's such an average player.

When you compare him to Serge which was a brilliant trade at the time. A frontcourt player who can break open a zone with a reliable mid range jumper with defense and rebounding etc. And all we had to give up was Ross.

Turner on the other hand will cost more than Serge did while providing much less value.

Hard no for me.

Turner can do those same things Serge did in the mid range while also shooting better from 3.

Serge in the championship season:
Shooting % from 10f-3pt : 50%

Turner this season:
Shooting % from 10f-3pt : 55%

Albeit Serge has a higher volume of his shots coming from here. 30% compared to 10% for turner.

Serge in the championship season:
3p% - 29%

Turner this season:
3pt% - 34%

Turner has a higher volume of his shots from here than Serge did. 47% compared to only 19% for Serge.

So this notion that Serge is a zone busting floor spacer while turner is only average at it appears to not bear out with a look at the numbers.

The reason turner would be such a good fit here is that he can be that release value in the mid range and bring the opposing big away from the rim which has been lacking since Serge left.

The argument that the cost will be greater is real. Some context… Serge was playing poorly in Orlando as one of the offensive focal points and was seen as a big negative value contract. Ross still had the “potential” tag attached to him. It still required a first to be attached by the raps to get it done. GTJ and a first is not all that different. If Masai believes that filling the Serge hole can propel this team forward, he will do it.

Personally, I would rather not include the first, but if I had to I would.


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[Madhouse]

all comes down to the asking price. I bet Masai does it if he they only want our 2022 first

[sbsat]

have you all watched Turner play? He's AWFUL