Tank World Order (7.0)

[ATLTimekeeper]

The Nets traded three first round draft picks (2022, 2024 and 2026) and four first round pick swaps (2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027) and Allen/Levert/Prince for Harden.

Harden also wanted to play with KD/Kyrie. When was last time a top 5 level player demanded a trade and picked Toronto as his preferred destination? Even after winning a championship Kawhi left the first chance he got. Harden wanted to be on the Nets which makes a huge difference when giving up all those picks.

That would be a lot of assets to give up for a guy you only have control over for 1.5 years. It would be the equivalent of trading OG/GTJ and all those picks to see Harden leave after a year.

So? MVP calibre player + Siakam + Fred + Scottie is good enough to win it all. Pick swaps aren't picks, they're swaps. You have 4 FRPs to keep building around Scottie with + All-NBA Siakam + Freddy All-Star, when MVP calibre player leaves.

Just to recap: all James Harden will cost here is a former late FRP, a former 2nd round pick and 3 future FRPs and some pick swaps, which may be relevant or may be unused? This would be a great outcome for the Raptors.

[KL78192020]

The Nets traded three first round draft picks (2022, 2024 and 2026) and four first round pick swaps (2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027) and Allen/Levert/Prince for Harden.

Harden also wanted to play with KD/Kyrie. When was last time a top 5 level player demanded a trade and picked Toronto as his preferred destination? Even after winning a championship Kawhi left the first chance he got. Harden wanted to be on the Nets which makes a huge difference when giving up all those picks.

That would be a lot of assets to give up for a guy you only have control over for 1.5 years. It would be the equivalent of trading OG/GTJ and all those picks to see Harden leave after a year.

So? MVP calibre player + Siakam + Fred + Scottie is good enough to win it all. Pick swaps aren't picks, they're swaps. You have 4 FRPs to keep building around Scottie with + All-NBA Siakam + Freddy All-Star, when MVP calibre player leaves.

Just to recap: all James Harden will cost here is a former late FRP, a former 2nd round pick and 3 future FRPs and some pick swaps, which may be relevant or may be unused? This would be a great outcome for the Raptors.

Those pick swaps are important look at the Clippers with all the injuries. Plus the bigger issue with the pick swap is if Harden decides to leave,

Lets say the Raptors gave up those pick swaps for Kawhi well than you don't get Scottie Barnse. The Spurs would've swapped that pick, those details that you're saying don't matter do matter.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Those pick swaps are important look at the Clippers with all the injuries. Plus the bigger issue with the pick swap is if Harden decides to leave,

Lets say the Raptors gave up those pick swaps for Kawhi well than you don't get Scottie Barnse. The Spurs would've swapped that pick, those details that you're saying don't matter do matter.

The Raptors gave up more talent for Kawhi, which is why they didn't have to give up all those swaps (plus Kawhi had 1 year v 1.5 years). Sticking a worst-case on this doesn't win you any points.

The Clippers gave up their best prospect (Shai) in addition to all those picks/swaps, and had the bad luck of both George and Kawhi getting hurt. But, they also retain Kawhi and George going forward, so... who cares if they miss out this year? In this specific scenario we're talking about, the Raptors would keep their two star players (Siakam + Fred) and their best prospect and get an MVP with 1.5 seasons? You take that and RUN!!!

[KL78192020]

Those pick swaps are important look at the Clippers with all the injuries. Plus the bigger issue with the pick swap is if Harden decides to leave,

Lets say the Raptors gave up those pick swaps for Kawhi well than you don't get Scottie Barnse. The Spurs would've swapped that pick, those details that you're saying don't matter do matter.

The Raptors gave up more talent for Kawhi, which is why they didn't have to give up all those swaps (plus Kawhi had 1 year v 1.5 years). Sticking a worst-case on this doesn't win you any points.

The Clippers gave up their best prospect (Shai) in addition to all those picks/swaps, and had the bad luck of both George and Kawhi getting hurt. But, they also retain Kawhi and George going forward, so... who cares if they miss out this year? In this specific scenario we're talking about, the Raptors would keep their two star players (Siakam + Fred) and their best prospect and get an MVP with 1.5 seasons? You take that and RUN!!!

Yea, I don't disagree with the take it and run, but take it and run IF those players want to stay with your team long term. George and Kawhi wanted to be LA, no top 5 player is clamoring for a trade to the Raptors.

[beanbag]

Yo dude, Idk why it’s interesting but I found an old thread from 2013 where we were both on TeamMediocre/ anti tank. Different world.

You guys missed out on a whole half decade of cheering for losses. Too bad.

Team Mediocre cheer for losses if anything. Sense you guys love mediocrity.

Okay

[720]

Davison hasn't really performed as expected in college so far but he is next to Ivey as one of the most athletic college guard this year.

Watch on YouTube

[720]

Watch on YouTube

So strong under contact.

[PhilBlackson]

I'm a broken record but AJ is the guy I'd want to fall to us but likewise have also said that I don't see him falling out of the lottery and pending injury I don't see us falling out with how crappy NYK (who seem to be embracing another semi-rebuild now as the plot will move from Randle to RJ/Cam) and how broken Tatum/Brown look. He's gonna be a steal for someone.

[720]

I'm a broken record but AJ is the guy I'd want to fall to us but likewise have also said that I don't see him falling out of the lottery and pending injury I don't see us falling out with how crappy NYK (who seem to be embracing another semi-rebuild now as the plot will move from Randle to RJ/Cam) and how broken Tatum/Brown look. He's gonna be a steal for someone.

We'll have a better picture of where we finish in the next month or two. Atm we're 1.5 games back of picking 11th. We're currently picking 18th. 24 of our next 34 games are on the road. Schedule is going to pick up and not a lot a chances for teams to rest their starters so they don't have to cross the border (like Warriors and Jazz did vs us).

[PhilBlackson]

I'm a broken record but AJ is the guy I'd want to fall to us but likewise have also said that I don't see him falling out of the lottery and pending injury I don't see us falling out with how crappy NYK (who seem to be embracing another semi-rebuild now as the plot will move from Randle to RJ/Cam) and how broken Tatum/Brown look. He's gonna be a steal for someone.

We'll have a better picture of where we finish in the next month or two. Atm we're 1.5 games back of picking 11th. We're currently picking 18th. 24 of our next 34 games are on the road. Schedule is going to pick up and not a lot a chances for teams to rest their starters so they don't have to cross the border (like Warriors and Jazz did vs us).

Yeah this is definitely THE test of the season to see what the team or isn't and good timing because it's right around the trade deadline.

My problem is I really, really don't know what to make of the surrounding teams supposedly competing for our similar Playoff spots (6-8th). If I just look in the current descending order...

CHA - I'm not convinced fully healthy they're definitively better, might be, LaMelo/Bridges/Hayward are somewhat of an underrated trio but put them up against Fred/Pascal/OG...maybe long term Ball & Bridges will be better, in this moment it's at best a wash with Fred & Pascal but OG tips the scales, I'll take Gary over Rozier, Oubre or Barnes?! Obviously taking Scottie.

NYK - I think they're bailing on Randle, it's obvious where this NY plot is going next...the Road to Zion. It's going to be the Cam/RJ show moving forward and trying to convince NOP that rippped former MIP Randle plus a plethora of picks is supposedly worth fat Zion who won't come back. It's not likely BUT the thing is I just don't think they're committed to this season

WAS - just never, ever sold on them, bunch of roleplayers and Beal getting buckets. I think they just caught people off guard early with their new team dynamics, I think teams have caught on and are fizzling back to the franchise median, mediocre to below mediocre

ATL - looks like they're in disarray, they prematurely gave up on Cam, Collins is AGAIN complaining about his role (he did so last year as well) AND rumors are they're willing to trade ANYONE not named Trae or Capela, cheap ownership, not the kind of rumor should let leak mid-season

BOS - is about the only one (aside from CHA - I think they're a Playoff team, more so just questioned if we can pass them) that I could potentially see them turning it around, if maybe they make some small tweaks to add some depth and more importantly if Tatum & Brown show any pride, play harder and actually CARE about their teammates (including each other), I really don't see the chemistry there at all BUT they are talented enough that if they just show some maturity, better leadership & more encouraging they COULD turn it around, just not sure they will

The next month of basketball I think is really end up being a defining month for majority of the Eastern Conference "Cusp" Playoff teams. "Scary Hours" lol

[720]

I'm a broken record but AJ is the guy I'd want to fall to us but likewise have also said that I don't see him falling out of the lottery and pending injury I don't see us falling out with how crappy NYK (who seem to be embracing another semi-rebuild now as the plot will move from Randle to RJ/Cam) and how broken Tatum/Brown look. He's gonna be a steal for someone.

We'll have a better picture of where we finish in the next month or two. Atm we're 1.5 games back of picking 11th. We're currently picking 18th. 24 of our next 34 games are on the road. Schedule is going to pick up and not a lot a chances for teams to rest their starters so they don't have to cross the border (like Warriors and Jazz did vs us).

Yeah this is definitely THE test of the season to see what the team or isn't and good timing because it's right around the trade deadline.

My problem is I really, really don't know what to make of the surrounding teams supposedly competing for our similar Playoff spots (6-8th). If I just look in the current descending order...

CHA - I'm not convinced fully healthy they're definitively better, might be, LaMelo/Bridges/Hayward are somewhat of an underrated trio but put them up against Fred/Pascal/OG...maybe long term Ball & Bridges will be better, in this moment it's at best a wash with Fred & Pascal but OG tips the scales, I'll take Gary over Rozier, Oubre or Barnes?! Obviously taking Scottie.

NYK - I think they're bailing on Randle, it's obvious where this NY plot is going next...the Road to Zion. It's going to be the Cam/RJ show moving forward and trying to convince NOP that rippped former MIP Randle plus a plethora of picks is supposedly worth fat Zion who won't come back. It's not likely BUT the thing is I just don't think they're committed to this season

WAS - just never, ever sold on them, bunch of roleplayers and Beal getting buckets. I think they just caught people off guard early with their new team dynamics, I think teams have caught on and are fizzling back to the franchise median, mediocre to below mediocre

ATL - looks like they're in disarray, they prematurely gave up on Cam, Collins is AGAIN complaining about his role (he did so last year as well) AND rumors are they're willing to trade ANYONE not named Trae or Capela, cheap ownership, not the kind of rumor should let leak mid-season

BOS - is about the only one (aside from CHA - I think they're a Playoff team, more so just questioned if we can pass them) that I could potentially see them turning it around, if maybe they make some small tweaks to add some depth and more importantly if Tatum & Brown show any pride, play harder and actually CARE about their teammates (including each other), I really don't see the chemistry there at all BUT they are talented enough that if they just show some maturity, better leadership & more encouraging they COULD turn it around, just not sure they will

The next month of basketball I think is really end up being a defining month for majority of the Eastern Conference "Cusp" Playoff teams. "Scary Hours" lol

We’re in this tier, this is our tier (12-8). No one his head and shoulders above another. It just looks impossible atm because we were just on a win streak (against a bunch of depleted teams). But our core problem of a lack of bench production is going to be there the whole year unless some trades occur by the deadline. We’re going to struggle to score at times, when one of Siakam, Fred get in foul trouble we look lost (like vs the Suns for example when Siakam was in foul trouble). We also are relying on young guys heavily (Gary, Precious, Barnes, OG). It’ll be interesting to watch.

[Madhouse]

We'll have a better picture of where we finish in the next month or two. Atm we're 1.5 games back of picking 11th. We're currently picking 18th. 24 of our next 34 games are on the road. Schedule is going to pick up and not a lot a chances for teams to rest their starters so they don't have to cross the border (like Warriors and Jazz did vs us).

Yeah this is definitely THE test of the season to see what the team or isn't and good timing because it's right around the trade deadline.

My problem is I really, really don't know what to make of the surrounding teams supposedly competing for our similar Playoff spots (6-8th). If I just look in the current descending order...

CHA - I'm not convinced fully healthy they're definitively better, might be, LaMelo/Bridges/Hayward are somewhat of an underrated trio but put them up against Fred/Pascal/OG...maybe long term Ball & Bridges will be better, in this moment it's at best a wash with Fred & Pascal but OG tips the scales, I'll take Gary over Rozier, Oubre or Barnes?! Obviously taking Scottie.

NYK - I think they're bailing on Randle, it's obvious where this NY plot is going next...the Road to Zion. It's going to be the Cam/RJ show moving forward and trying to convince NOP that rippped former MIP Randle plus a plethora of picks is supposedly worth fat Zion who won't come back. It's not likely BUT the thing is I just don't think they're committed to this season

WAS - just never, ever sold on them, bunch of roleplayers and Beal getting buckets. I think they just caught people off guard early with their new team dynamics, I think teams have caught on and are fizzling back to the franchise median, mediocre to below mediocre

ATL - looks like they're in disarray, they prematurely gave up on Cam, Collins is AGAIN complaining about his role (he did so last year as well) AND rumors are they're willing to trade ANYONE not named Trae or Capela, cheap ownership, not the kind of rumor should let leak mid-season

BOS - is about the only one (aside from CHA - I think they're a Playoff team, more so just questioned if we can pass them) that I could potentially see them turning it around, if maybe they make some small tweaks to add some depth and more importantly if Tatum & Brown show any pride, play harder and actually CARE about their teammates (including each other), I really don't see the chemistry there at all BUT they are talented enough that if they just show some maturity, better leadership & more encouraging they COULD turn it around, just not sure they will

The next month of basketball I think is really end up being a defining month for majority of the Eastern Conference "Cusp" Playoff teams. "Scary Hours" lol

We’re in this tier, this is our tier (12-8). No one his head and shoulders above another. It just looks impossible atm because we were just on a win streak (against a bunch of depleted teams). But our core problem of a lack of bench production is going to be there the whole year unless some trades occur by the deadline. We’re going to struggle to score at times, when one of Siakam, Fred get in foul trouble we look lost (like vs the Suns for example when Siakam was in foul trouble). We also are relying on young guys heavily (Gary, Precious, Barnes, OG). It’ll be interesting to watch.

We are a 40-42 win team imo. If we go on a run we could win 45. Either way we will have our ups and downs and will be in the play in most likely. If we make it out of there or land in the lottery is anyone's guess. Best case for Two is we finish 11th just behind Boston, Washington and NYK but I think it's unlikely. I'm planning with a loss in the play in right now and a late lotto pick.

[God Squad]

Davis is probably going to play his way up above our range but atm some mocks have him in that 14-18 area where we currently preside.

Watch on YouTube

Yeah I'm a fan of Davis' game.

He's good, but there isn't a shot he wont take (in a bad way).

[ATLTimekeeper]

Yea, I don't disagree with the take it and run, but take it and run IF those players want to stay with your team long term. George and Kawhi wanted to be LA, no top 5 player is clamoring for a trade to the Raptors.

In this situation you would be getting 2 contending post seasons of Harden, while retaining Barnes, Fred, Siakam after he leaves. Take that and run. You may actually not want Harden and their long-term post 30 supermax. You still have 4 FRPs to draft every other year.

[Johnny Bball]

https://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength

Lock in your narratives now, because after the next five games we very likely have the softest schedule in the league.

[720]

Davis is probably going to play his way up above our range but atm some mocks have him in that 14-18 area where we currently preside.

Watch on YouTube

Yeah I'm a fan of Davis' game.

He's good, but there isn't a shot he wont take (in a bad way).

Won't take? What do you mean by that?

[GreatWhiteStiff]

It means he likes to shoot and if he has a look he will shoot it good or bad.

[NotMyKawhi]

If we don't do everything we can to draft mathurin I'll be very upset

idc where we finish, you trade up for Mathurin. You dont make the same mistake you made not going all in for SGA. Not going all in for Giannis. Not going all in for Mobley

Trust your gut MU. So many draft day guys you loved who turned out to be stars. Love Mathurin. He's that guy

[DelAbbot]

how do we know Masai love Mathurin?

[NotMyKawhi]

how do we know Masai love Mathurin?

he thinks like me