Knicks Get Reddish per Woj

[Capn'O]

I don't get why people want Turner, he's not some sniper from 3, we should have just kept Bobby if all you want from the C spot is 3s. Why don't we move Nerlens, and make a run at Mo Bamba this offseason if you want a center that can shoot.

We should have kept Bobby. For sure.

[WargamesX]

Mind you, I don't want the Knicks trading any of _our_ picks for any of this. We're not in a place where we can divert the "pull the plug" option yet. But the assets we have... other than our own picks and RJ they're not getting you superstars. Obi and... even our picks... ain't a core piece to get a Harden level player. He's a core piece to get a Sexton level player. Young guys with big question marks. That's where we're at. We're in a place where we need to take some risks that could pan to us having a larger piece down the road. But that could also **** us.

If we reach out and the cost is too high for any of these guys we keep it moving. Meanwhile, we can look to move guys like Kemba for more minor assets.

That seems to be the FO approach. Don't overpay for assets, and you'll get a few steals as a result.

The only thing I could see them splurge on is a star or a high level PG who could work well with RJ and Randle.

I am not sure any of those are on the market.

[DrCoach]

That's a great comp for upside because that was another uber talented guy who couldn't figure out how to translate that into winning ball for his first several years in the league.

Size, length, athleticism

With no pressure of being #1 pick

Look how good he looks in GS

And it took a couple of years to get there.

Yep, Cam is 22. He doesnt have to be a savior.

[thebuzzardman]

I want to like the Cam trade and there's a chance it will work out.

But I recall similar sentiments for Mudiay, who I didn't like (but I was probably too invested in fellow future bust Frank) and also Super Mario, who I also convinced myself that his skills and athleticism might play with a 2nd chance.

It probably won't work out, but I don't the team taking the chance. But lots of guys get drafted higher up and then don't pan out as good, or pan out as "ok"

I mean, Doug McDermott is your stereotypical white guy player, runs around, makes his jumpers (except as a Knick), the bank shots etc. But he was drafted high. Now, Cam, with more athleticism, more shake, but ultimately may not translate until any better player, just different. And that would be a good scenario.

People thinking we got another Paul George, but it could be Dark McDermott.

it's very much like super mario. he had talent too but just couldn't quite put it together. and the likelihood is cam won't either.

So, it'll be a Super Cameo appearance? (registered trademark for when Cam starts annoying the sh*t out of everyone)

[god shammgod]

I don't get why people want Turner, he's not some sniper from 3, we should have just kept Bobby if all you want from the C spot is 3s. Why don't we move Nerlens, and make a run at Mo Bamba this offseason if you want a center that can shoot.

We should have kept Bobby. For sure.

no we shouldn't have. and we shouldn't have signed noel or extended randle or signed fournier or kemba or anything else anyone is suggesting in here either. i really do hate you all, i'm not kidding this time. you're horrible people. you deserve to lose in the play-in every year.

[RHODEY]

I don't get why people want Turner, he's not some sniper from 3, we should have just kept Bobby if all you want from the C spot is 3s. Why don't we move Nerlens, and make a run at Mo Bamba this offseason if you want a center that can shoot.

We should have kept Bobby. For sure.

Indeed Turner is just solid IMO, not worth more than solid assets and money.

[god shammgod]

I want to like the Cam trade and there's a chance it will work out.

But I recall similar sentiments for Mudiay, who I didn't like (but I was probably too invested in fellow future bust Frank) and also Super Mario, who I also convinced myself that his skills and athleticism might play with a 2nd chance.

It probably won't work out, but I don't the team taking the chance. But lots of guys get drafted higher up and then don't pan out as good, or pan out as "ok"

I mean, Doug McDermott is your stereotypical white guy player, runs around, makes his jumpers (except as a Knick), the bank shots etc. But he was drafted high. Now, Cam, with more athleticism, more shake, but ultimately may not translate until any better player, just different. And that would be a good scenario.

People thinking we got another Paul George, but it could be Dark McDermott.

it's very much like super mario. he had talent too but just couldn't quite put it together. and the likelihood is cam won't either.

So, it'll be a Super Cameo appearance? (registered trademark for when Cam starts annoying the sh*t out of everyone)

super cameo is great. you have a gift. most of society would deem it a worthless gift, but i do not concur with most of society on many things. as illustrated by my opinions on realgm.com.

[DOT]

I don't know where the idea that Reddish is a guy who creates comes from

He's like RJ last year in that he's best spotting up, but can sometimes create. But he's still bad at creating for himself

The PnR numbers look promising, around average, but the iso numbers are dreadful. Like, Frank levels of bad. 2019 and 2020, Frank was around 30-40th percentile for isos, Reddish was 14th percentile his rookie year, didn't have enough to qualify last year, and is 8th percentile this year

So like, he could develop (quite frankly, hard to get worse at isolating), but he's pretty much primarily a spot-up guy for now.

You’re letting stats fool you. Watch this video. He’s been known as a 3 level scorer since high school. His numbers look bad because he’s inconsistent asf. But the ability is there.

Watch on YouTube

;feature=emb_title

I don't know how you think this disproves anything I said

I'm not talking about potential, I even said he could develop it, I'm talking about right now. Through this year, he's been terrible at isolation, decent at PnR, but mostly best at being a spot up shooter

Frankly, I think the Middleton comp I use for RJ applies here, too. Just Cam's more athletic and less proven as a scorer. Have him develop outside in, get him to being a consistent 3pt shooter, then we can afford to let him develop the flashes he shows as a scorer because even if he never gets consistent at that, you can still play him for his 3pt shooting.

[evevale]

i love how so many of you guys are so firmly postured in your takes before cam's ankle comes out of a walking boot

guys prob not even gonna play for a month

never change

[dakomish23]

This season, 63 percent of Reddish's baskets have been assisted, per Cleaning The Glass. That is the same percentage as Taj Gibson, and it is the lowest percentage of Reddish's three-year career. If you're a Reddish skeptic, you can argue that there are good reasons for this: He's shooting 28.3 percent on pull-up 3s and 30.2 percent on pull-up 2s, per NBA.com, and he's shooting 30 percent from midrange and 57 percent at the rim, per CTG.

To add to these numbers, this year he’s shooting
41.9% on 3.1 catch and shoot 3’s
58.3% on left corner 3’s (14 of 24) all makes assisted
34.8% on right corner 3’s (8 of 23) all makes assisted
34.0% on above the break 3’s (36 of 106). Of that 36, 72% were assisted.

I had posted earlier about us running plays for him to take out the useless off the dribble crap that the NBA has devolved into. There’s a very small group of NBA players good enough to do this consistently & Cam isn’t on that list.

My logic is the same for Cam as it was for THJ when I thought he would have a good year in 19-20. I can see Cam really being productive and fruitful if we create for him instead of him trying to do it himself. Right now 0 dribble 3’s only account for 31.2% of his FGA. That needs to be closer to 50 to maximize his impact. Even his 0 dribble 2PA (which is only 7.9% of his 2PA) have him shooting at 48.1%.

The answer is there. The kid has the ability to be a finisher on the perimeter. But if they’re going to pretend he’s something he’s not, then expect the same uneven feast or famine output.

Whole CBS article below

Spoiler:

Knicks trade grade: B+
There's an argument this should be an A-plus. If you believe there's a decent chance that Reddish turns into a star, then trading a "first-round pick" that could very well turn into two second-round picks for him is robbery. Knox wasn't a part of New York's plans, and the front office managed to keep all of the young players who are. Solomon Hill is out for the season and will occupy a roster spot, but all that means is the Knicks have to terminate Ryan Arcidiacano's 10-day contract early.

Reddish wanted to land on a team that could give him a bigger role, per ESPN, and in New York he should have an opportunity to earn more than the 23.4 minutes he was averaging in Atlanta. There is competition, however, and this trade raises several questions: Will Tom Thibodeau turn Evan Fournier into a sixth man? Will Fournier even be on the roster past the deadline? How much usage can Reddish even handle?

If you're a Reddish optimist, you can point to his scoring outbursts. It wasn't the conference finals, but Reddish went 8-for-13 from deep and scored 33 points against the Chicago Bulls a couple of days after Christmas. Five days before that, he dropped 34 in 42 minutes against the Orlando Magic. Reddish hasn't done this sort of thing consistently, but it would be crazy to expect him to, given all the talent around him and the fact that Trae Young ran a zillion pick-and-rolls every game.

This season, 63 percent of Reddish's baskets have been assisted, per Cleaning The Glass. That is the same percentage as Taj Gibson, and it is the lowest percentage of Reddish's three-year career. If you're a Reddish skeptic, you can argue that there are good reasons for this: He's shooting 28.3 percent on pull-up 3s and 30.2 percent on pull-up 2s, per NBA.com, and he's shooting 30 percent from midrange and 57 percent at the rim, per CTG.

These numbers aren't encouraging for Reddish's prospects as a creator, but they aren't damning, either. He's only a year younger than Quentin Grimes and Miles McBride, his new rookie teammates, and he deserves time to figure out who he is as an NBA player. If his 22.3 percent usage rate stays the same or increases only slightly, he can still be a wildly valuable wing, provided that he brings consistent intensity on defense and especially if he continues to make 41.9 percent of his catch-and-shoot 3s. To be determined on both of those, though.

The tricky part is that, before Reddish has figured out who he is as an NBA player, a team has to make a decision about paying him something like $15-20 million per season for four years. The Hawks have already punted on that.

New York is betting that it can retain Reddish at a price that makes sense. Him developing into a perennial All-Star would be the best possible outcome, but that is hardly required for this to pay off. For the last year or so, Atlanta has been seen as a potential destination for disgruntled superstars, given its collection of young talent. The Knicks are in that game, too, and Reddish gives them someone else they can offer (or build with, if they must trade Barrett).

In a more immediate sense, New York just acquired a rotation player for a guy who was only seeing the floor in garbage time. The Knicks have more firepower, more athleticism and more versatility than they did before this trade, and Thibodeau will demand the best out of him on defense. At 21-21, fighting for a spot in the play-in, this could turn out to be the boost they needed.

[Deeeez Knicks]

It probably won't work out, but I don't (mind) the team taking the chance.

That's pretty much it.

Its probably the odds as the pick itself working out.

[snadler]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Polk377]

This Cam trade is fun for discussion, and also to dream on, but taking a wide angle view of this I think there's basically no chance that the Hawks just straight up blew it and gave up a 22 year old guy who goes on to become a valuable player in the league.

Atlanta handcuffed themselves with the amount of young wins they have. Essentially they decided Huerter, Hunter and Cabarrot were the guys they wanted to build with and took the best offer they got at the time for Reddish.

[god shammgod]

i guess the hawks gm, and the ones he talks to, disagrees about the pick having no value lol

[Capn'O]

I don't get why people want Turner, he's not some sniper from 3, we should have just kept Bobby if all you want from the C spot is 3s. Why don't we move Nerlens, and make a run at Mo Bamba this offseason if you want a center that can shoot.

We should have kept Bobby. For sure.

no we shouldn't have. and we shouldn't have signed noel or extended randle or signed fournier or kemba or anything else anyone is suggesting in here either. i really do hate you all, i'm not kidding this time. you're horrible people. you deserve to lose in the play-in every year.

Are you kidding me? Instead of those mfer. Portis is making under $5 mil a year and putting up 15/9 on 43% shooting at 26. You think we couldn't use that as a piece for a better asset than any of the players you just mentioned????

[Huey Freeman]

WTF? Did this s.hit really reach 80 pages in 24hrs? Did we acquire Cam Reddish or KD? Dayum.

[3toheadmelo]

I don't know where the idea that Reddish is a guy who creates comes from

He's like RJ last year in that he's best spotting up, but can sometimes create. But he's still bad at creating for himself

The PnR numbers look promising, around average, but the iso numbers are dreadful. Like, Frank levels of bad. 2019 and 2020, Frank was around 30-40th percentile for isos, Reddish was 14th percentile his rookie year, didn't have enough to qualify last year, and is 8th percentile this year

So like, he could develop (quite frankly, hard to get worse at isolating), but he's pretty much primarily a spot-up guy for now.

You’re letting stats fool you. Watch this video. He’s been known as a 3 level scorer since high school. His numbers look bad because he’s inconsistent asf. But the ability is there.

Watch on YouTube

;feature=emb_title

I don't know how you think this disproves anything I said

I'm not talking about potential, I even said he could develop it, I'm talking about right now. Through this year, he's been terrible at isolation, decent at PnR, but mostly best at being a spot up shooter

Frankly, I think the Middleton comp I use for RJ applies here, too. Just Cam's more athletic and less proven as a scorer. Have him develop outside in, get him to being a consistent 3pt shooter, then we can afford to let him develop the flashes he shows as a scorer because even if he never gets consistent at that, you can still play him for his 3pt shooting.

Cam is a creator. Right now and always has been. He’s just inconsistent at making shots. That’s all it is.

[god shammgod]

We should have kept Bobby. For sure.

no we shouldn't have. and we shouldn't have signed noel or extended randle or signed fournier or kemba or anything else anyone is suggesting in here either. i really do hate you all, i'm not kidding this time. you're horrible people. you deserve to lose in the play-in every year.

Are you kidding me? Instead of those mfer. Portis is making under $5 mil a year and putting up 15/9 on 43% shooting at 26. You think we couldn't use that as a piece for a better asset than any of the players you just mentioned????

he went to a contender for 5. we were paying him 15 mill per. i'm not so sure he takes that from us.

[snadler]

Imagine Reddish plays well, and the knicks just use Reddish as a bigger trade piece which will carry more value than the late protected 1st rounder

[Deeeez Knicks]

This season, 63 percent of Reddish's baskets have been assisted, per Cleaning The Glass. That is the same percentage as Taj Gibson, and it is the lowest percentage of Reddish's three-year career. If you're a Reddish skeptic, you can argue that there are good reasons for this: He's shooting 28.3 percent on pull-up 3s and 30.2 percent on pull-up 2s, per NBA.com, and he's shooting 30 percent from midrange and 57 percent at the rim, per CTG.

To add to these numbers, this year he’s shooting
41.9% on 3.1 catch and shoot 3’s
58.3% on left corner 3’s (14 of 24) all makes assisted
34.8% on right corner 3’s (8 of 23) all makes assisted
34.0% on above the break 3’s (36 of 106). Of that 36, 72% were assisted.

I had posted earlier about us running plays for him to take out the useless off the dribble crap that the NBA has devolved into. There’s a very small group of NBA players good enough to do this consistently & Cam isn’t on that list.

My logic is the same for Cam as it was for THJ when I thought he would have a good year in 19-20. I can see Cam really being productive and fruitful if we create for him instead of him trying to do it himself. Right now 0 dribble 3’s only account for 31.2% of his FGA. That needs to be closer to 50 to maximize his impact. Even his 0 dribble 2PA (which is only 7.9% of his 2PA) have him shooting at 48.1%.

The answer is there. The kid has the ability to be a finisher on the perimeter. But if they’re going to pretend he’s something he’s not, then expect the same uneven feast or famine output.

Whole CBS article below

Spoiler:

Knicks trade grade: B+
There's an argument this should be an A-plus. If you believe there's a decent chance that Reddish turns into a star, then trading a "first-round pick" that could very well turn into two second-round picks for him is robbery. Knox wasn't a part of New York's plans, and the front office managed to keep all of the young players who are. Solomon Hill is out for the season and will occupy a roster spot, but all that means is the Knicks have to terminate Ryan Arcidiacano's 10-day contract early.

Reddish wanted to land on a team that could give him a bigger role, per ESPN, and in New York he should have an opportunity to earn more than the 23.4 minutes he was averaging in Atlanta. There is competition, however, and this trade raises several questions: Will Tom Thibodeau turn Evan Fournier into a sixth man? Will Fournier even be on the roster past the deadline? How much usage can Reddish even handle?

If you're a Reddish optimist, you can point to his scoring outbursts. It wasn't the conference finals, but Reddish went 8-for-13 from deep and scored 33 points against the Chicago Bulls a couple of days after Christmas. Five days before that, he dropped 34 in 42 minutes against the Orlando Magic. Reddish hasn't done this sort of thing consistently, but it would be crazy to expect him to, given all the talent around him and the fact that Trae Young ran a zillion pick-and-rolls every game.

This season, 63 percent of Reddish's baskets have been assisted, per Cleaning The Glass. That is the same percentage as Taj Gibson, and it is the lowest percentage of Reddish's three-year career. If you're a Reddish skeptic, you can argue that there are good reasons for this: He's shooting 28.3 percent on pull-up 3s and 30.2 percent on pull-up 2s, per NBA.com, and he's shooting 30 percent from midrange and 57 percent at the rim, per CTG.

These numbers aren't encouraging for Reddish's prospects as a creator, but they aren't damning, either. He's only a year younger than Quentin Grimes and Miles McBride, his new rookie teammates, and he deserves time to figure out who he is as an NBA player. If his 22.3 percent usage rate stays the same or increases only slightly, he can still be a wildly valuable wing, provided that he brings consistent intensity on defense and especially if he continues to make 41.9 percent of his catch-and-shoot 3s. To be determined on both of those, though.

The tricky part is that, before Reddish has figured out who he is as an NBA player, a team has to make a decision about paying him something like $15-20 million per season for four years. The Hawks have already punted on that.

New York is betting that it can retain Reddish at a price that makes sense. Him developing into a perennial All-Star would be the best possible outcome, but that is hardly required for this to pay off. For the last year or so, Atlanta has been seen as a potential destination for disgruntled superstars, given its collection of young talent. The Knicks are in that game, too, and Reddish gives them someone else they can offer (or build with, if they must trade Barrett).

In a more immediate sense, New York just acquired a rotation player for a guy who was only seeing the floor in garbage time. The Knicks have more firepower, more athleticism and more versatility than they did before this trade, and Thibodeau will demand the best out of him on defense. At 21-21, fighting for a spot in the play-in, this could turn out to be the boost they needed.

He has been horrible in the mid range and isos, but he has been good in other areas. There is a good player there if he can find his niche. A lot of it is just figuring out his place in the league. Hopefully the change of scenery can help.