Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread

[Parliament10]

No No No. The Suns declined his rookie option. Please read my five posts on this topic.

IINM, Celtics would keep his Early Bird Rights.

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2022/01/12/celtics-trade-rumors-jeff-green-jalen-smith-nba-deadline/

But the C’s or whoever trades for him would own his Bird Rights, and would only have to offer him a max of $4.7 million in the offseason. That could be the most intriguing part of the young big.

_________________________________________________________________________________

No, they declined
Most we coild sign him for is 4.7 million

Yeah. He still has the 2 years.
He's got Early Bird Rights, if he gets Traded.

Smith would be a UFA and the Celtics can only offer him $4.7 million. If another team offered him $5.0 million he is gone. Celtics would have to have cap space or MLE to offer Smith more.

We could off him the same thing.
But the point I'm making, is that we'd have 2 years (more) of Bird Rights on him, over anyone else.

Edit:
So after 3 years in the League, Jalen Smith/Celtics would have Full Bird Rights. (It would essentially be like 3 years with the Celtics.)
No other would get that Extra 2 years.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/hoops-rumors-glossary-gilbert-arenas-provision-3.html

The Arenas provision limits the first-year salary that rival suitors can offer restricted free agents who have only been in the league for one or two years. The starting salary for an offer sheet can’t exceed the amount of the non-taxpayer mid-level exception, which allows the player’s original team to use either the mid-level exception or the Early Bird exception to match it. Otherwise, a team without the necessary cap space would be powerless to keep its player, like the Warriors were with Arenas.

[CelticFaninLBC]

IINM, Celtics would keep his Early Bird Rights.

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2022/01/12/celtics-trade-rumors-jeff-green-jalen-smith-nba-deadline/

_________________________________________________________________________________



Yeah. He still has the 2 years.
He's got Early Bird Rights, if he gets Traded.

Smith would be a UFA and the Celtics can only offer him $4.7 million. If another team offered him $5.0 million he is gone. Celtics would have to have cap space or MLE to offer Smith more.

We could off him the same thing.
But the point I'm making, is that we'd have 2 years (more) of Bird Rights on him, over anyone else.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/hoops-rumors-glossary-gilbert-arenas-provision-3.html

The Arenas provision limits the first-year salary that rival suitors can offer restricted free agents who have only been in the league for one or two years. The starting salary for an offer sheet can’t exceed the amount of the non-taxpayer mid-level exception, which allows the player’s original team to use either the mid-level exception or the Early Bird exception to match it. Otherwise, a team without the necessary cap space would be powerless to keep its player, like the Warriors were with Arenas.

What can Boston offer versus other teams?

[Celts17Pride]

IINM, Celtics would keep his Early Bird Rights.

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2022/01/12/celtics-trade-rumors-jeff-green-jalen-smith-nba-deadline/

_________________________________________________________________________________



Yeah. He still has the 2 years.
He's got Early Bird Rights, if he gets Traded.

Smith would be a UFA and the Celtics can only offer him $4.7 million. If another team offered him $5.0 million he is gone. Celtics would have to have cap space or MLE to offer Smith more.

We could off him the same thing.
But the point I'm making, is that we'd have 2 years (more) of Bird Rights on him, over anyone else.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/hoops-rumors-glossary-gilbert-arenas-provision-3.html

The Arenas provision limits the first-year salary that rival suitors can offer restricted free agents who have only been in the league for one or two years. The starting salary for an offer sheet can’t exceed the amount of the non-taxpayer mid-level exception, which allows the player’s original team to use either the mid-level exception or the Early Bird exception to match it. Otherwise, a team without the necessary cap space would be powerless to keep its player, like the Warriors were with Arenas.

Smith is UFA not RFA

[Celts17Pride]

Smith would be a UFA and the Celtics can only offer him $4.7 million. If another team offered him $5.0 million he is gone. Celtics would have to have cap space or MLE to offer Smith more.

We could off him the same thing.
But the point I'm making, is that we'd have 2 years (more) of Bird Rights on him, over anyone else.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/hoops-rumors-glossary-gilbert-arenas-provision-3.html

The Arenas provision limits the first-year salary that rival suitors can offer restricted free agents who have only been in the league for one or two years. The starting salary for an offer sheet can’t exceed the amount of the non-taxpayer mid-level exception, which allows the player’s original team to use either the mid-level exception or the Early Bird exception to match it. Otherwise, a team without the necessary cap space would be powerless to keep its player, like the Warriors were with Arenas.

What can Boston offer versus other teams?

Celtics can offer $4.7 million, other teams whatever they want

[Parliament10]

Smith would be a UFA and the Celtics can only offer him $4.7 million. If another team offered him $5.0 million he is gone. Celtics would have to have cap space or MLE to offer Smith more.

We could off him the same thing.
But the point I'm making, is that we'd have 2 years (more) of Bird Rights on him, over anyone else.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/hoops-rumors-glossary-gilbert-arenas-provision-3.html

The Arenas provision limits the first-year salary that rival suitors can offer restricted free agents who have only been in the league for one or two years. The starting salary for an offer sheet can’t exceed the amount of the non-taxpayer mid-level exception, which allows the player’s original team to use either the mid-level exception or the Early Bird exception to match it. Otherwise, a team without the necessary cap space would be powerless to keep its player, like the Warriors were with Arenas.

What can Boston offer versus other teams?

The Extra 2 years toward Full Bird Rights.

[Parliament10]

We could off him the same thing.
But the point I'm making, is that we'd have 2 years (more) of Bird Rights on him, over anyone else.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/hoops-rumors-glossary-gilbert-arenas-provision-3.html

What can Boston offer versus other teams?

Celtics can offer $4.7 million, other teams whatever they want

The Gilbert Arena Provision did away with that, in 2005.
We can off him the same as any other team.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/hoops-rumors-glossary-gilbert-arenas-provision-3.html

[Celts17Pride]

What can Boston offer versus other teams?

Celtics can offer $4.7 million, other teams whatever they want

The Gilbert Arena Provision did away with that, in 2005.
We can off him the same as any other team.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/hoops-rumors-glossary-gilbert-arenas-provision-3.html

Smith is not a RFA

[Parliament10]

Smith would be a UFA and the Celtics can only offer him $4.7 million. If another team offered him $5.0 million he is gone. Celtics would have to have cap space or MLE to offer Smith more.

We could off him the same thing.
But the point I'm making, is that we'd have 2 years (more) of Bird Rights on him, over anyone else.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/hoops-rumors-glossary-gilbert-arenas-provision-3.html

The Arenas provision limits the first-year salary that rival suitors can offer restricted free agents who have only been in the league for one or two years. The starting salary for an offer sheet can’t exceed the amount of the non-taxpayer mid-level exception, which allows the player’s original team to use either the mid-level exception or the Early Bird exception to match it. Otherwise, a team without the necessary cap space would be powerless to keep its player, like the Warriors were with Arenas.

Smith is UFA not RFA

OK.
But we can still get to Full Bird Rights, 2 years before any other team.
He's gotta think about that, at only 22 years old (this March).

[CelticFaninLBC]

We could off him the same thing.
But the point I'm making, is that we'd have 2 years (more) of Bird Rights on him, over anyone else.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/hoops-rumors-glossary-gilbert-arenas-provision-3.html

Smith is UFA not RFA

OK.
But we can still get to Full Bird Rights, 2 years before any other team.
He's gotta think about that, at only 22 years old (this March).

So Boston can offer more guaranteed future money??

[Parliament10]

Smith is UFA not RFA

OK.
But we can still get to Full Bird Rights, 2 years before any other team.
He's gotta think about that, at only 22 years old (this March).

So Boston can offer more guaranteed future money??

2 years sooner, than any other team.

Iff we traded for him.

[Parliament10]

Celtics can offer $4.7 million, other teams whatever they want

The Gilbert Arena Provision did away with that, in 2005.
We can off him the same as any other team.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/hoops-rumors-glossary-gilbert-arenas-provision-3.html

Smith is not a RFA

Yeah. I forgot that part.
But, we can still get to Full Bird Rights, 2 years before any other team.

[Sactowndog]

Like it.

Idk, that doesn't actually answer my "prompt" at all. Everyone liking that package for Boston underrates Brown, overrates Barnes, and underestimates the difference between them and the benefit of having HB as a small ball 4. And Haliburton is a nice player, but the odds he overcomes his limitations to be an all-star aren't high, and he's being overrated because everyone loves the archetype - smart, tall point guard, shooting and double digit assists. Jaylen is the best player in the deal and stays that way his entire career unless there's a miracle with Ben's shot or Hali's development.

Celtics get by far the worst out of a deal like this. Kings get an All Star level player, Sixers get an All Star level player, Celtics get a talented second year player, an overqualified role player, and a first that is likely to be well outside the lottery for the foreseeable future (and they lose an All Star player).

Well I would argue the Kings actually get the worst out of the deal. They send out their two highest percentage catch and shoot players. They surround Ben, a point guard who needs shooters, with a roster whose second and third best C&S 3 shooter shoots 35.1% (Fox) and 31.6% Len.

So I’m not going to argue why you should take it. Only that it’s a better trade for the Celtics than the Fox trade.

[Celts17Pride]

Smith is UFA not RFA

OK.
But we can still get to Full Bird Rights, 2 years before any other team.
He's gotta think about that, at only 22 years old (this March).

So Boston can offer more guaranteed future money??

Smith is a UFA. Smith could get a 4 year deal for $80 million if some team was dumb enough to give him that deal.

[Tyakack]

I'm officially at this point. I can't remember the last time I was even remotely excited about watching this team play. They are such a disappointment. I only watch now when I have nothing better to do and even then I only watch half the time.......They need to do something....anything.... Because clearly this current team ain't it.

[snowman]

Well, Snowman, I'm not going to replicate your very long post but that's a good rearrangement of the deck chairs. But it probably won't make much difference when it comes to wins and losses. The question is what you can do to make the J's play differently and less selfishly--less dribbling and more moving without the ball. Otherwise, it's just background noise.

Udoka has called them out. Smart has called them out. Horford has called them out. Nothing has changed.

I do apologize for the long post. Had a lot to say, but I do think getting the young guys more time will build some confidence in them so that maybe the Jays will be less reluctant to pass them the ball. It would also set us up better for the off season with the front office having a better understanding about the young guys and which ones to keep or trade.

Really, I just think we keep Tatum, Brown, Rob, PP, Richardson, Grant and Nesmith. Move Horford and a 1st for a starting PG during the summer, and then bring in shooters and rebounders to fill out the roster.

The top 5 Celtics on catch and shoot 3%.
Grant Williams 43.7%
Josh Richardson 40.4%
Jason Tatum 37.3%
Payton Pritchard 37.3%
Jalen Brown 36.8%

The type 5 Celtics in C&S 3 Pt attempts
Jaylen Brown 5.0
Marcus Smart 3.8
Al Horford 3.8
Josh Richardson 3.2
Jayson Tatum 3.2

Some of the players can shoot but they don’t get enough attempts. I’m not sure Horford and a 1st gets you a starting point. Maybe John Wall.

Well, our bar for a starting PG is quite low at this point.

[Andrew McCeltic]

OK.
But we can still get to Full Bird Rights, 2 years before any other team.
He's gotta think about that, at only 22 years old (this March).

So Boston can offer more guaranteed future money??

Smith is a UFA. Smith could get a 4 year deal for $80 million if some team was dumb enough to give him that deal.

Worst case is someone offers him the full MLE and more years. To get more than that, here, he'd have to outplay Rob. Think there are just four teams with serious cap space this summer - rumor the Pistons could throw a max at Ayton.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Idk, that doesn't actually answer my "prompt" at all. Everyone liking that package for Boston underrates Brown, overrates Barnes, and underestimates the difference between them and the benefit of having HB as a small ball 4. And Haliburton is a nice player, but the odds he overcomes his limitations to be an all-star aren't high, and he's being overrated because everyone loves the archetype - smart, tall point guard, shooting and double digit assists. Jaylen is the best player in the deal and stays that way his entire career unless there's a miracle with Ben's shot or Hali's development.

Celtics get by far the worst out of a deal like this. Kings get an All Star level player, Sixers get an All Star level player, Celtics get a talented second year player, an overqualified role player, and a first that is likely to be well outside the lottery for the foreseeable future (and they lose an All Star player).

Well I would argue the Kings actually get the worst out of the deal. They send out their two highest percentage catch and shoot players. They surround Ben, a point guard who needs shooters, with a roster whose second and third best C&S 3 shooter shoots 35.1% (Fox) and 31.6% Len.

So I’m not going to argue why you should take it. Only that it’s a better trade for the Celtics than the Fox trade.

My question was what combo of Fox/Hield/Barnes could return from a fourth team if Boston trades Jaylen. If Barnes goes to CHI and we get Patrick Williams, Coby White and a 1st, plus Bagley and Fox... that's a major return. Unrealistic on the Bulls' end but enough to make you think about a reset for Boston. You could cut Philly out in those scenarios, too.

Like, who are the teams linked to those players over the last couple of years? What are the rumors on Fox, Hield, Barnes suitors?

[Sactowndog]

Celtics get by far the worst out of a deal like this. Kings get an All Star level player, Sixers get an All Star level player, Celtics get a talented second year player, an overqualified role player, and a first that is likely to be well outside the lottery for the foreseeable future (and they lose an All Star player).

Well I would argue the Kings actually get the worst out of the deal. They send out their two highest percentage catch and shoot players. They surround Ben, a point guard who needs shooters, with a roster whose second and third best C&S 3 shooter shoots 35.1% (Fox) and 31.6% Len.

So I’m not going to argue why you should take it. Only that it’s a better trade for the Celtics than the Fox trade.

My question was what combo of Fox/Hield/Barnes could return from a fourth team if Boston trades Jaylen. If Barnes goes to CHI and we get Patrick Williams, Coby White and a 1st, plus Bagley and Fox... that's a major return. Unrealistic on the Bulls' end but enough to make you think about a reset for Boston. You could cut Philly out in those scenarios, too.

Like, who are the teams linked to those players over the last couple of years? What are the rumors on Fox, Hield, Barnes suitors?

Fox has been off the table so hard to say. Before the season Philly wanted Fox for Simmons

Lakers linked to Hield but opted for Westbrook and have no assets left. Buddy’s contract declines so hard to know what might be out there.

Boston has been linked most strongly to Barnes. Minnesota, Cleveland and Chicago may be options.

But I will reiterate as a partial Boston fan, the player the Celts should target is Haliburton not Fox.

Fox is really more of a 2 guard. Yes he is unstoppable when he wants to be and can take any player off the dribble….. But those aren’t the Celtics issues. They already have Tatum who can get his own shot when needed.

Haliburton fits the Celtics needs like a glove. The Celtics don’t have a good pick and roll point guard to play with Robert Williams or Tatum. Haliburton is very very good in the pick and roll. I grew up watching Stockton and he reminds me of him. A Haliburton/Tatum or Haliburton/Williams pick and roll would be so hard to stop.

When playing off the ball Haliburton gives you the Celtics a high percentage shooter and he plays passing lanes well on defense. To me Hali is the perfect fit for the Celtics. From a Celtics perspective you ought to be asking what it would take to get Haliburton not Fox.

[reload141]

Honestly.

I don’t see Brown getting dealt at the deadline.

95% he stays, so really no point discussing Brown trades.

Offseason? Sure.

It’s evident to me that they want to make minor moves and have stated as much, rejig around Brown and Tatum for this season, see where Ime and the team goes.

Offseason re-evaluate the roster and if they don’t like the way it’s heading then look at dealing Brown.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Well I would argue the Kings actually get the worst out of the deal. They send out their two highest percentage catch and shoot players. They surround Ben, a point guard who needs shooters, with a roster whose second and third best C&S 3 shooter shoots 35.1% (Fox) and 31.6% Len.

So I’m not going to argue why you should take it. Only that it’s a better trade for the Celtics than the Fox trade.

My question was what combo of Fox/Hield/Barnes could return from a fourth team if Boston trades Jaylen. If Barnes goes to CHI and we get Patrick Williams, Coby White and a 1st, plus Bagley and Fox... that's a major return. Unrealistic on the Bulls' end but enough to make you think about a reset for Boston. You could cut Philly out in those scenarios, too.

Like, who are the teams linked to those players over the last couple of years? What are the rumors on Fox, Hield, Barnes suitors?

Fox has been off the table so hard to say. Before the season Philly wanted Fox for Simmons

Lakers linked to Hield but opted for Westbrook and have no assets left. Buddy’s contract declines so hard to know what might be out there.

Boston has been linked most strongly to Barnes. Minnesota, Cleveland and Chicago may be options.

But I will reiterate as a partial Boston fan, the player the Celts should target is Haliburton not Fox.

Fox is really more of a 2 guard. Yes he is unstoppable when he wants to be and can take any player off the dribble….. But those aren’t the Celtics issues. They already have Tatum who can get his own shot when needed.

Haliburton fits the Celtics needs like a glove. The Celtics don’t have a good pick and roll point guard to play with Robert Williams or Tatum. Haliburton is very very good in the pick and roll. I grew up watching Stockton and he reminds me of him. A Haliburton/Tatum or Haliburton/Williams pick and roll would be so hard to stop.

When playing off the ball Haliburton gives you the Celtics a high percentage shooter and he plays passing lanes well on defense. To me Hali is the perfect fit for the Celtics. From a Celtics perspective you ought to be asking what it would take to get Haliburton not Fox.

Haliburton is a great fit anywhere. But fit isn't a reason to give away Jaylen for him. So the question is what Barnes could fetch in a three team deal... if it's Jaylen for Hali, Kings 1st this year top 4 protected, whatever Barnes gets from a third team.. the return on HB has to be great. Say, Jaylen to SAC, Barnes to CLE, Hali, Kings 1st, Rubio's expiring and Okoro to Boston.. That's cap flexibility, a good point guard, a so-so prospect, and a decent top 10 draft pick. And even then, all the risk is for the Celtics because Haliburton is the only player in that group without bust potential. That's hard to justify.