Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks

[boomershadow]

I've kinda just been checking in to see if something is gonna happen. Im tired of speculating endlessly on hypotheticals.

[Tom White]

I've kinda just been checking in to see if something is gonna happen. Im tired of speculating endlessly on hypotheticals.

I know what you mean. Feeling like the kid who is always asking "Are we there yet?"

[pacers33granger]

Absolutely hate that Haywards name is popping up again. If Pritchard moves Myles for him then we can guarantee we'll be a treadmill team and nothing more for the next couple of years.

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[Tom White]

Absolutely hate that Haywards name is popping up again. If Pritchard moves Myles for him then we can guarantee we'll be a treadmill team and nothing more for the next couple of years.

Yep. Just what this team needs. Another player who can't stay healthy, and at least in my view isn't a real difference maker anyway. I don't see him being worth his salary either.

[pacers33granger]

Absolutely hate that Haywards name is popping up again. If Pritchard moves Myles for him then we can guarantee we'll be a treadmill team and nothing more for the next couple of years.

Yep. Just what this team needs. Another player who can't stay healthy, and at least in my view isn't a real difference maker anyway. I don't see him being worth his salary either.

Yeah he's way overpaid and a 3rd option at this point on a contender.

It would be a bit of a slap in the face to the fans to shy away from spending for years to then decide a 4 man group of Domas, Brogdon, LeVert, and Hayward is worth spending nearly $90 mil on.

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[Scoot McGroot]

Absolutely hate that Haywards name is popping up again. If Pritchard moves Myles for him then we can guarantee we'll be a treadmill team and nothing more for the next couple of years.

Yep. Just what this team needs. Another player who can't stay healthy, and at least in my view isn't a real difference maker anyway. I don't see him being worth his salary either.

Yeah he's way overpaid and a 3rd option at this point on a contender.

It would be a bit of a slap in the face to the fans to shy away from spending for years to then decide a 4 man group of Domas, Brogdon, LeVert, and Hayward is worth spending nearly $90 mil on.

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To me, Hayward makes some sense in certain situations. His salary is stupid. He could only make sense if you mitigate his salary by moving other long-term salary to off balance. Turner/Levert combine to make almost $36m this year, and almost $37m next year. Hayward would make $34.5m this year (he has a 15% trade kicker that Charlotte would pay in cash, but his cap number would be higher in the future to account for it), and $34.6m and $36.225m in the following years. If you could get back another useful player that makes very little money for the years that Hayward is under contract, it could fiscally work out. If you could get back McDaniels or Bouknight, it makes more sense and could work fiscally.

He's not a favorite. I wouldn't be specifically against getting Hayward, but it'd be tough and require a highly specific type of trade construction.

[pacers33granger]

I tend to agree but Charlotte doesn't have the player to make it work. Bouknight and McDaniels are interesting but aren't bringing much on court value during Haywards contract.

It's 2 to 3 salary slots with how we manage finances. That's fine if it's a superstar. Not for a 3rd option with injury concerns.

Again, my primary issue at this point though would be the limiting spending for years with good teams to spend big to the detriment of the rest of the roster just to hopefully sell some tickets.

To be fair, it's just rumors. But we were willing to give serious value before and that move would've been disastrous, yet it almost happened.

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[Scoot McGroot]

I tend to agree but Charlotte doesn't have the player to make it work. Bouknight and McDaniels are interesting but aren't bringing much on court value during Haywards contract.

It's 2 to 3 salary slots with how we manage finances. That's fine if it's a superstar. Not for a 3rd option with injury concerns.

Again, my primary issue at this point though would be the limiting spending for years with good teams to spend big to the detriment of the rest of the roster just to hopefully sell some tickets.

To be fair, it's just rumors. But we were willing to give serious value before and that move would've been disastrous, yet it almost happened.

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Sure, talks went far last time, but Hayward then signed for 20% more than we stretched to offer him, AND he has a 15% trade kicker. Obviously, guys have their guys they always like, but I wouldn't assume this is a real chance. It's fiscally tough. And, again, would require a highly specific type of trade. I wouldn't worry too much.

[Pacers Forever]

No way for Hayward at this point and $$$$$

I would love to see the inner workings of trade discussions and deals the Pacers entertain and turn down.

I’m interested if the other GM’s throw minimal offers to teams that is a solid NO and then they start a discussion of what it will take to get their player(s).

Or is it more like each GM has a running list of what players are available and what the other team needs in return ?

I’m sure at some point the player’s agent gets involved. When though are they notified and consulted if at all.

This would never happen due to GM’s not wanting to take hate from the fans if they didn’t make a deal the fans wanted badly. Still would be cool to see the process.

[Scoot McGroot]

No way for Hayward at this point and $$$$$

I would love to see the inner workings of trade discussions and deals the Pacers entertain and turn down.

Oh, me too. This is kind of the most interesting part of the game for me right now. Other than the actual on court game, that is...

I’m interested if the other GM’s throw minimal offers to teams that is a solid NO and then they start a discussion of what it will take to get their player(s).

Or is it more like each GM has a running list of what players are available and what the other team needs in return ?

Oh, this is all dependent on the individual GM's. Ainge was known to throw out minimal offers, or demand a ton of value in return, and it reportedly burned some bridges with other teams. His assistant, Zanik, however, was respected as a guy who doesn't really waste other people's time. Some teams are GM heavy in terms of involvement, and others only have the GM involved if they're nearing the goal line on something. All the Assistant GM's and advisors all converse with each other and their counterparts and work up a ton of information, which has to be sifted for truth and application. But some of the stuff has to be sussed out, and not all teams may know who is truly gettable anywhere else.

I’m sure at some point the player’s agent gets involved. When though are they notified and consulted if at all.

Good question. It depends on how much the player needs to be involved. Is there a trade kicker? An implicit no trade clause due to early bird rights? Otherwise, an agent may not need to be involved until after the deal is done.

This would never happen due to GM’s not wanting to take hate from the fans if they didn’t make a deal the fans wanted badly. Still would be cool to see the process.

I want to say that The Athletic had a great article out this past offseason that surveyed a bunch of GM's and AGM's anonymously and reported some of the stories. It was pretty cool. There's usually some great stories each offseason, or when GM's are hired/fired that reveal how teams operate.

[Pacersike]

If we trade Turner or Sabonis and LeVert or Brogdon and our pick for a 'star' player, we can make Simon happy until he dies too.

Give Warren a 1 year contract to earn a bigger contract, get the other TJ back, play "cheap" Chris and we will be in the playoffs again.

We have a lot of options in the offseason, just got to sit this through and take it with a smile, like Covid.

[Scoot McGroot]

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The Kings are not believed to be a player in discussions for Sabonis, a league source told The Sacramento Bee, but one recent report suggested they have shown interest in Turner. The Kings are reportedly drawing heavy interest in De’Aaron Fox, but the organization has signaled a desire to continue building around the backcourt of Fox and Tyrese Haliburton.

….

The price for Sabonis — a 25-year-old two-time All-Star in the second year of a four-year, $74.9 million deal — appears to be much higher. The Pacers want an All-Star caliber player in return, and they have received offers reaching that threshold, a source told The Bee.

Read more at: https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article257340827.html#storylink=cpy

[Scoot McGroot]

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(Somewhat) Important day today, cap/CBA wise.

[boomershadow]

I would love to get Fox.

[Wizop]

Here's Cooper discussing the roster.

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[Pacers Forever]

If Sacramento wants Turner I’m down for this scenario which trade checker approved

Kings get
Turner
LeVert
Lamb

Pacers get
Fox
Bagley III
Mitchell
Terrance Davis

Question is would Kings want to lose 4 players. I’m sure they’d see LeVert as useful and Lamb is off the books at end of season.
Would they love Turner enough to part with Mitchell. Bagley has been in and out of the doghouse when Walton was in charge and getting more playing time currently.

Don’t know if the playing time is because they want to see what they have or if they’re wanting other teams to want Bagley.
I just threw T Davis in because he’s a very good bench player who was with Raptors. I guess they could substitute a draft pick in place of Davis if they want to keep him. Idk

[Pacers Forever]

Article said interested in Turner teams are the Mavericks, Timberwolves, Knicks, Hornets, Trail Blazers, and Kings.

I don’t see the Knicks, Mavericks, Trail Blazers giving us anything we want for Turner. I don’t see the Hornets breaking up their team other than moving on from Washington which isn’t enough.

Kings to me could work a deal with us. Other possible teams with assets or players we might want would be Detroit, Orlando, Golden St., Memphis, and Houston. Haven’t heard any of them mentioned lately.

[Scoot McGroot]

Per Michael Scotto of Hoopshype, which

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Sounds mostly like he might just be taking other reports and repackaging them, though.

[Scoot McGroot]

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Chris Fedor is the Cavs beat writer for the Cleveland Plain Dealer. However, since I lived there for 7 years and saw his rise through writing and sports radio, I’ve never seen him as much more than a mouthpiece for the organization up there to help serve their desires for smokescreens and such. So, his voice Carrie’s weight. But I’m not sure that anything he reports isn’t out out specifically to serve the team.

[Tom White]

Per Michael Scotto of Hoopshype, which

---snip for brevity---

Sounds mostly like he might just be taking other reports and repackaging them, though.

I think that is what Hoopshype (and other sites) mostly does. There are only a couple people (Woj, Shams) who seem to have any real knowledge of what is going on, and right now they aren't saying anything.

On the other hand, I guess the "good news" is no one is reporting the Pacers are looking for a couple veterans to help get them to the playoffs this year. That would be the last thing this team needs to be looking for.