Trades and Transactions, 2022 Edition

[newyorker4ever]

none of those guys are in his stratosphere when he's healthy.

Exactly why^^

that's not a good enough reason anymore. guys can have career ending injuries these days and return to form. case in point.

Joel Embiid.



he's been an MVP candidate posting numbers slightly worse than Zion posts when healthy. he's legit generational.

But it's my reason which is good enough for me.

[newyorker4ever]

Would love to get Zion because he's absolutely a generational type player but if he's not playing the games then he's a waste of space and money.

[thebuzzardman]

I'd actually go even further and suggest that the Mavericks' only somewhat feasable way of getting a second star player next to Doncic is through their ability to package 2-3 first rounders. To do that they need the rights to their 2023 pick back. Otherwise I see no way for the Mavericks to put a second star next to Doncic and in turn I highly doubt that Doncic would have the same commitment to the Mavericks 2-3 years down the road and a couple more first round exits. If the Mavericks want to replicate with Doncic what they did with Drik they have to find a way to put a second star next to Doncic within the very immediate future or they'll run the risk of losing him. In that quest, having the 2023 pick is essential.

I dont see it that way at all. Pairing another "star" with Luka via trade and a 2023 and 2025 pick becomes immediatly borderline worthless (#25 or worse etc) for the other team and not that big of an argument.

At draft night they could allready throw in Green + 2022 FRP in a trade package anyway .Ah and most of the stars change teams through tampering/buddying up. You dont even need the best trade package anymore. In general giving away Brunson just to be able to offer someone picks with low value (Luka too good), thats suicide

Dont think they do a major trade anyway. They are 8-1 in their last 9 games, 8 teams couldnt even score 100 points, Top-5 defense since weeks and in general 24-19 with Luka/KP/Brunson just sharing the court in 15 of 43 games. They are flying under the radar...

Couldn't do this sooner:

[bearadonisdna]

Brunson is a dog. He can fit with the Knicks .
Contact wise I say go for it , he reminds me kinda like FRed VF.

Interesting stats .
10fgs per 100
30 points per 100

Which is 1st option caliber numbers . He can duplicate what burks is doing as a starter and keep rjb as a primary perimeter guy.

As far as free agent pointguards he is nicer than Lonzo , Brunson has a 18.8 PER

[dukeknicksirish]

So if Thibbs sticks with the “non traditional PG” style, I can’t see him wanting to trade Burks.

If he is involved in a trade, I’m curious to see if the future of the Knicks starting 5 could have RJ, Grimes and Reddish as 1,2,3?

[F N 11]

So if Thibbs sticks with the “non traditional PG” style, I can’t see him wanting to trade Burks.

If he is involved in a trade, I’m curious to see if the future of the Knicks starting 5 could have RJ, Grimes and Reddish as 1,2,3?

I would much rather a point guard than a combo guard pretending. At least when offense stagnates, a point guard is able to create something more efficient.

[bearadonisdna]

Part of me is scared to touch the chemistry.

RJB is surging and the defense is good. This season is a bit of a wash . Brunson is nice but UFA next year , you could sign and trade for him .

If we were to Consolidate the big situation , that’s a different story.

[bearadonisdna]

So if Thibbs sticks with the “non traditional PG” style, I can’t see him wanting to trade Burks.

If he is involved in a trade, I’m curious to see if the future of the Knicks starting 5 could have RJ, Grimes and Reddish as 1,2,3?

I would much rather a point guard than a combo guard pretending. At least when offense stagnates, a point guard is able to create something more efficient.

Yes of course but RJ is surging in this system so I feel we gotta nurture it.

If we need traditional pointguard all we gotta do activate kemba. What’s his problem ? He needs or takes some back to backs off ? That’s very common throughout the league.

[F N 11]

So if Thibbs sticks with the “non traditional PG” style, I can’t see him wanting to trade Burks.

If he is involved in a trade, I’m curious to see if the future of the Knicks starting 5 could have RJ, Grimes and Reddish as 1,2,3?

I would much rather a point guard than a combo guard pretending. At least when offense stagnates, a point guard is able to create something more efficient.

Yes of course but RJ is surging in this system so I feel we gotta nurture it.

If we need traditional pointguard all we gotta do activate kemba. What’s his problem ? He needs or takes some back to backs off ? That’s very common throughout the league.

I think a point guard who can hit shots off ball as well as facilitate would work. RJ, Randle, and Fournier need the ball. However them getting some easy shots off of good pint guard creating should take some stress off of them.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

I found this article:

"Yet perhaps more importantly, New York acquired Dallas' 2023 first-round pick in the Kristaps Porzingis deal. That pick holds particular value to the Mavericks, not necessarily because it is going to be high, but because of how it affects their other picks. The protections on that 2023 pick essentially prevent the Mavericks from trading any other first-round picks until 2027. Getting their own pick back would make it far easier to deal other picks. If the Mavericks hope to overhaul their roster in the next few years, they'll need access to their full complement of draft picks for future deals."

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/knicks-trade-rumors-mavericks-guard-jalen-brunson-on-new-yorks-radar-per-report/

If that is true then it is actually close to a no-brainer for the Mavericks to try to get that pick back.

But they can just renounce the protections on the pick whenever they like.

Wouldn't that be crazy dangerous? Imagine they renounce the protection, Doncic has some injury and the pick turns top 5? They'll get killed by their fanbase......I have personally never heard of a team renouncing the protection....or at least it must be extremely rare for a team to take that risk......especially if you are a team like the Mavs for the entire success hinges on a single player....

I'd actually prefer the Mavericks renouncing their protection on the pick instead of getting Brunson. If teams are healthy I see the Mavs as a fringe playoff team in the west behind Golden State, Phoenix, Utah, Memphis, Lakers, Denver and possibly Clippers. I also think 4-5 teams in the east are gonna have a better record. With protection I see the pick in the 14-20 range, without protection we are a 8 week Doncic injury away from it being top 10 at least. If the Mavs considered that I'd be very happy with that.

Look, I agree with you that the Mavs fan doesn't understand that having a 2023 FRP is of more value to the Mavs than the notional value of a #20 draftee (taking #20 as a ball park figure estimate for the pick).

However, I think your estimates of the strengths and weaknesses of the Mavs roster are way, way off. It's certainly not the case that their "entire success hinges on a single player".

Certainly, renouncing the protection (maybe for a price) is a risk. On the other hand, maybe they would assume that risk to make certain trades. (Perhaps Brunson & THJ for Simmons.) That would be something for their FO to evaluate. Of course, the longer things go on the more time they have to decide - eg, if they acquire a 2023 unencumbered FRP now and want to trade their 2024 pick in 14 months time and are 35-28 or whatever, then there is no good reason at all as to why not simply waive the 2023 protections?

As for your last paragraph, I'm afraid I've lost you in the hypotheticals. NYK don't get to choose or have the certainty that the Mavs would waive their protection on their 2023 pick. There is no choice between waiving the protection and getting Brunson on the putative table. Or maybe you have the Knicks making a different deal where they trade actual genuine assets to the Mavs (rather than yet another tiresome fan-fantasy dump of bad contracts for real jewels). Moreover, your speculation about where the Mavs would stand in the 2022-2023 seems wishful thinking.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Brunson is a dog. He can fit with the Knicks .
Contact wise I say go for it , he reminds me kinda like FRed VF.

Interesting stats .
10fgs per 100
30 points per 100

Which is 1st option caliber numbers . He can duplicate what burks is doing as a starter and keep rjb as a primary perimeter guy.

As far as free agent pointguards he is nicer than Lonzo , Brunson has a 18.8 PER

Probably "double" was the word you meant to type, not duplicate.

[bearadonisdna]

Brunson is a dog. He can fit with the Knicks .
Contact wise I say go for it , he reminds me kinda like FRed VF.

Interesting stats .
10fgs per 100
30 points per 100

Which is 1st option caliber numbers . He can duplicate what burks is doing as a starter and keep rjb as a primary perimeter guy.

As far as free agent pointguards he is nicer than Lonzo , Brunson has a 18.8 PER

Probably "double" was the word you meant to type, not duplicate.

haha i see what you did there

[Polk377]

Exactly why^^

that's not a good enough reason anymore. guys can have career ending injuries these days and return to form. case in point.

Joel Embiid.



he's been an MVP candidate posting numbers slightly worse than Zion posts when healthy. he's legit generational.

But it's my reason which is good enough for me.

The number that stands out there to me is still 51 games averaged since the injuries. That's 31 games missed a year without your star player. Same reason getting Anthony Davis was a bad idea because you can't depend on him to get through a season or the playoffs healthy. My feeling is if he really wants to come here he can sign the qualifying offer and the Knicks can clear some cap in 2 years to sign him if he proves he can get back to form and stays on the court.

[Polk377]

My dark horse trade target at the deadline for a PG is Coby White. It's clear with Lonzo signed long term he is never going to get a true opportunity to live to his potential and the Bulls might want to find some pieces to help win now. I don't know what we can match salary wise but I would definitely make the call and see if they want Fournier, Noel, Burks, Rose or Kemba with a pick or something. Hell I know Chicago is looking for a legit starting PF and looking to trade White and Williams to do it. Maybe a package with Randle for both could be had.

Knicks can build something with a core of RJ, Cam and White who all came in the same year and all have all star upside.

White
RJ
Cam
Williams
Robinson

[TBri1974]

I like Brunson - not sure if he can be on of the 3 best players on a contender, but I like him. Curious what people think we have to offer Dallas? Control of their pick back (assume range 20-30) and... ?

[HopelessKnick]

But your logic is flawed too. You say the Mavs should trade Brunson in the summer to get their 23 pick back, so that they can go shopping for a "star" with the 23 and 25 pick. So pretty much praying on luck that they even get someone better than Brunson in a trade. When they also just simply re-sign Brunson and start to shop him in november (combined with 21 FRP Green and the player selected in 22). If there is a star available, fine. If not also fine because they still have Brunson. And their future picks.

They also wont be afraid to pay Brunson. If they are scared of the lux tax: Powells final year is just 6m guaranteed. Klebers year is a team option, Bullocks MLE contract is moveable...and yes, even THJ with 3/53m isnt unmoveable.
So like i said, just no arguments for the Mavs to go the "trade Brunson to the Knicks" route. And i also just dont think Brunson would prefer to join the Knicks just to have a higher usage rate. He is always on the court in crunchtime and the main ballhandler beside Luka.

Again--I think you intentionally or unintentionally overread what I write.

I put emphasis on the fact that if Brunson is happy with his role and want to re-sign in Dallas, then it is likely gonna happen. However, if he does have doubts about that, then the Mavericks options are extremely limited. Brunson is a unrestricted FA looking probably for something in the 18mill. range. There will be likely a handful teams that could make the necessary moves to sign Brunson outright.

I'm personally not even sure whether the Knicks would even have to "deal" with Dallas. The salary cap for next season is projected to be at 119 million (just looked it up). The Knicks are projected at 120 mill. with multiple easily movable contracts (essentially 1 year contracts with team options that could likely be moved without having to attach any picks etc. to them). The Knicks would literally not have much of a problem creating 20 million in capspace. So it is not like they'd need even the Mavericks willingness to trade Brunson. If Brunson wanted to join the Knicks then the Knicks could get it done without involving the Mavericks at all. I think you operate under the wrong notion that the Knicks would be dependant on the Mavs' cooperation to get Brunson in the summer---they clearly are not.

Walker (1year/9mill.)
Noel (1year/9mill+ team option)
Burks (1year/10mill + team option)
Rose (1year/14mill. + team option)
Gibson (1year/5mill.)

Likely all 5 players are easily movable without having to attach any significant value to get rid of them. The Knicks would have to get rid of 2 of them (out of the rist 4) to create the necessary capspace. You think that's a difficult task?

Again---all this comes down to Brunson: If he wants to stay in Dallas he'll simply re-sign. If he wants a bigger role and can see himself in NY, then there is almost nothing the Mavericks could do to prevent that. In fact if Brunson would want to join NYK, I think it would be the Mavericks trying to engage the Knicks in a sign and trade, not vice versa.

As for Brunson--no one can really tell. He could just be happy being in Dallas and playing alongside Doncic competing for the playoffs etc. I personally do think that staying in Dallas, sharing a backcourt with Doncic and being the secondary ball-handler does limit some of his future possibilities. Brunson is 25, he'll likely sign a 4year extension now and a second one at roughly around the age of 29. Even just looking at it from a financial standpoint, I think taking the step as a primary ball-handler somewhere else, getting 8-9 assists along with 18 points will set him up better than what he could achieve next to Doncic. On the flip side, after following the NBA for close to 30 years I believe that there a many players that genuinely prefer to stay out of markets like NY or LA---to much spotlight, tough fans and a lot of criticism. I think many players are content being in slightly smaller market teams, more appreciated by the organization and fans etc. I actually think a big portion of NBA players thinks that way.

However this is all speculation, he may not even contemplate these things at all and just be happy where he is. We'll see come summer.

[F N 11]

Pacers want 2 first round picks for Turner lol.

[VirginiaKnickFan]

Pacers want 2 first round picks for Turner lol.

Good luck with that.

[WargamesX]

On the low the Knicks set the market with that Reddish Trade. Now everyone wants a better package. Hawks might have held firm on Grimes being in the deal if they saw this was what teams wanted for their guys.

What we sent was so damn minimal

[HarthorneWingo]

Pacers want 2 first round picks for Turner lol.

Good. Don’t want the deal now given how well Mitch has been playing recently