Peak Demar DeRozan vs Peak Vince Carter: Who was better?

[Raps in 4]

Demar ascending this season is an early season narrative that was formed on a low sample size. He has not "ascended", go look at his numbers again - he's had seasons like this before.

It's a quality all-star season, but nothing special behind that.

Vince Carter's numbers are pretty easily better. His peak happened 20 seasons ago, in an era where high volume scoring and efficient volume scoring was harder to come by than today. 27 points on 55 TS% in 2001 is a bit more impressive than 26 points on 58 TS% in 2022.

Carter is also a better defender and 3 point shooter despite playing in an era where 3 point shooting wasn't that important yet.

Furthermore, we have a 12 game playoff sample from peak Carter's season, and he went against some great defenses in the 2001 Sixers. We know that Carter can more or less maintain this level of play in the PS, we do not really know if DeMar can be a big volume scorer in the post season - he's only topped out around 22 PPG, including the season where he averaged 27 points per game.


Given DeMar's numbers are more likely to go down than up, it's much safer to assume that Peak Carter was better.

His impact metrics are way up compared to past seasons. Specifically, his defence has improved dramatically. He's also maintained pretty good efficiency (although it has been trending down as the season has gone on).

This is definitely the best season of his career. But it's definitely not on the level of VC's peak.

[NZB2323]

I don’t think that Demar has ever had a playoff series as good as Vince had in 2001 against the 76ers. 1997-2004 was the hardest period in NBA history to score, the 76ers were the best defensive team in the league that year, and Vince put up 30, 6, and 6 on .57 TS%.

[Fellow72]

Demar ascending this season is an early season narrative that was formed on a low sample size. He has not "ascended", go look at his numbers again - he's had seasons like this before.

It's a quality all-star season, but nothing special behind that.

Vince Carter's numbers are pretty easily better. His peak happened 20 seasons ago, in an era where high volume scoring and efficient volume scoring was harder to come by than today. 27 points on 55 TS% in 2001 is a bit more impressive than 26 points on 58 TS% in 2022.

Carter is also a better defender and 3 point shooter despite playing in an era where 3 point shooting wasn't that important yet.

Furthermore, we have a 12 game playoff sample from peak Carter's season, and he went against some great defences in the 2001 Sixers. We know that Carter can more or less maintain this level of play in the PS, we do not really know if DeMar can be a big volume scorer in the post season - he's only topped out around 22 PPG, including the season where he averaged 27 points per game.


Given DeMar's numbers are more likely to go down than up, it's much safer to assume that Peak Carter was better.

I personally think it's Vince atm too, but I also believe it's closer than what people are saying. Demar is putting up these stats and he's not considered the franchise player of the bulls. Zach Lavine is considered the franchise player of the Bulls, not Demar. In 2016-2017, the Raptors was HIS team and he could do whatever he wanted. Today on the bulls, he doesn't have the same freedom and pull he had on that team. Just imagine if he was given the same green light today that he was given back then? He'd be averaging 27-28 easy and we all know it.

I'd say Demar currently has a better midrange shot than Vince, and is better at getting to the line and scoring at the line. That's probably it. When he was Raptor, Raptor fans always compared him to Vince when it was unwarranted (probably because of the Vince-hurt too). But I think this is the first time in Demar's career where he can at least be compared respectfully to Vince. If his number's go up due to Zach's injury again, he'll probably have even more of a case for comparison.

[RoyceDa59]

Carter 2000-2002 on another level.

[XTC]

Demar is and almost been a good offensive player. We will see how well he holds up in the playoffs. Zach Lavine off loading a lot of the scoring will help

But I can’t remember but when they played the cavaliers. Did demar have to guard Lebron? If he did. Lebron causes a bunch of pressure and would cause demar to use extensive energy on the defensive end. And that affects his ability on the offense end.

The best way to slow an offensive player. Is to make them work on defense. It takes a toll. Having to score and play defense. Is demar gonna to have to guard Kd or harden? Can the bulls hide demar? But they hiding Zach also.

OG was mostly used on Lebron, and before him Demarre Carroll was brought in.

[Van_Trump]

Watch on YouTube

That is all.

[macNcheese3]

I love DeMar but this is easily Vince. Not taking worth ethic and what have you into consideration. Vince was the far superior athlete, was a much better shooter, and was one hell of a player if not for injury and his personal issues.

[everdiso]

Demar ascending this season is an early season narrative that was formed on a low sample size. He has not "ascended", go look at his numbers again - he's had seasons like this before.

It's a quality all-star season, but nothing special behind that.

Vince Carter's numbers are pretty easily better. His peak happened 20 seasons ago, in an era where high volume scoring and efficient volume scoring was harder to come by than today. 27 points on 55 TS% in 2001 is a bit more impressive than 26 points on 58 TS% in 2022.

Carter is also a better defender and 3 point shooter despite playing in an era where 3 point shooting wasn't that important yet.

Furthermore, we have a 12 game playoff sample from peak Carter's season, and he went against some great defenses in the 2001 Sixers. We know that Carter can more or less maintain this level of play in the PS, we do not really know if DeMar can be a big volume scorer in the post season - he's only topped out around 22 PPG, including the season where he averaged 27 points per game.


Given DeMar's numbers are more likely to go down than up, it's much safer to assume that Peak Carter was better.

His impact metrics are way up compared to past seasons. Specifically, his defence has improved dramatically. He's also maintained pretty good efficiency (although it has been trending down as the season has gone on).

This is definitely the best season of his career. But it's definitely not on the level of VC's peak.

eh, not really.

Lebron

1. 17-18 (TOR): 3.02
2. 21-22 (CHI): 1.65
3. 16-17 (TOR): 1.46
4. 20-21 (SAS): 1.33
5. 13-14 (TOR): 1.05

BPM

1. 20-21 (SAS): 3.1
2. 16-17 (TOR): 3.0
3. 17-18 (TOR): 2.8
4. 15-16 (TOR): 2.5
5. 21-22 (CHI): 2.0

Raptor

1. 21-22 (CHI): 2.3
2. 17-18 (TOR): 1.3
3. 20-21 (SAS): 0.6
4. 13-14 (TOR): 0.3
5. 16-17 (TOR): 0.2

So Raptor has this season as his best but not the others.

And these numbers likely go down this year as his shooting regresses back down to its usual level.

[J_T]

Currently 90% Carter. I think the poll might have been more interesting if it was one-hand-Carter vs DDR. DDR is playing great but I think he might be the most overrated player in the league by some.

[Hans1984]

I've never seen a dunker like VC again. It's Vince Carter.

[Raps in 4]

Demar ascending this season is an early season narrative that was formed on a low sample size. He has not "ascended", go look at his numbers again - he's had seasons like this before.

It's a quality all-star season, but nothing special behind that.

Vince Carter's numbers are pretty easily better. His peak happened 20 seasons ago, in an era where high volume scoring and efficient volume scoring was harder to come by than today. 27 points on 55 TS% in 2001 is a bit more impressive than 26 points on 58 TS% in 2022.

Carter is also a better defender and 3 point shooter despite playing in an era where 3 point shooting wasn't that important yet.

Furthermore, we have a 12 game playoff sample from peak Carter's season, and he went against some great defenses in the 2001 Sixers. We know that Carter can more or less maintain this level of play in the PS, we do not really know if DeMar can be a big volume scorer in the post season - he's only topped out around 22 PPG, including the season where he averaged 27 points per game.


Given DeMar's numbers are more likely to go down than up, it's much safer to assume that Peak Carter was better.

His impact metrics are way up compared to past seasons. Specifically, his defence has improved dramatically. He's also maintained pretty good efficiency (although it has been trending down as the season has gone on).

This is definitely the best season of his career. But it's definitely not on the level of VC's peak.

eh, not really.

Lebron

1. 17-18 (TOR): 3.02
2. 21-22 (CHI): 1.65
3. 16-17 (TOR): 1.46
4. 20-21 (SAS): 1.33
5. 13-14 (TOR): 1.05

BPM

1. 20-21 (SAS): 3.1
2. 16-17 (TOR): 3.0
3. 17-18 (TOR): 2.8
4. 15-16 (TOR): 2.5
5. 21-22 (CHI): 2.0

Raptor

1. 21-22 (CHI): 2.3
2. 17-18 (TOR): 1.3
3. 20-21 (SAS): 0.6
4. 13-14 (TOR): 0.3
5. 16-17 (TOR): 0.2

So Raptor has this season as his best but not the others.

And these numbers likely go down this year as his shooting regresses back down to its usual level.

This is his best RAPM season as well (by a wide margin). And although I don't have access to historical EPM data, I have a suspicion that this is his highest EPM season as well (based on his old RPM ratings, although I'm working off of memory here so I could be wrong).

[everdiso]

His impact metrics are way up compared to past seasons. Specifically, his defence has improved dramatically. He's also maintained pretty good efficiency (although it has been trending down as the season has gone on).

This is definitely the best season of his career. But it's definitely not on the level of VC's peak.

eh, not really.

Lebron

1. 17-18 (TOR): 3.02
2. 21-22 (CHI): 1.65
3. 16-17 (TOR): 1.46
4. 20-21 (SAS): 1.33
5. 13-14 (TOR): 1.05

BPM

1. 20-21 (SAS): 3.1
2. 16-17 (TOR): 3.0
3. 17-18 (TOR): 2.8
4. 15-16 (TOR): 2.5
5. 21-22 (CHI): 2.0

Raptor

1. 21-22 (CHI): 2.3
2. 17-18 (TOR): 1.3
3. 20-21 (SAS): 0.6
4. 13-14 (TOR): 0.3
5. 16-17 (TOR): 0.2

So Raptor has this season as his best but not the others.

And these numbers likely go down this year as his shooting regresses back down to its usual level.

This is his best RAPM season as well (by a wide margin). And although I don't have access to historical EPM data, I have a suspicion that this is his highest EPM season as well (based on his old RPM ratings, although I'm working off of memory here so I could be wrong).

I believe it's his best DPM season but still nothing great at 0.8.

[Winsome Gerbil]

Oh no.

I appreciate the giant finger Demar has extended to all his most vitriolic haters this season, but...no. You want to start up a Joe Johnson v. DeMar Derozan thread? Well, I doubt it will get much traffic, but at least there will be something to talk about.

[SpiderX1016]

This isn't close and I'm glad the poll shows it. Love him but Demar is just not that guy.

[Kingdibs19]

Vince was overrated during his career and after

[Fellow72]

Vince was overrated during his career and after

False. The majority of the people who say this are Raptors fans or people who never watched VC in his prime. There is a reason why he was once the favorite player of a lot of our own current favorite players.

[SelfishPlayer]

Vince played in a different era with physical defense, longer minutes, and no respect for efficiency. That was before he started sandbagging and never truly recovered.

[theoilslick]

Even I was a Vincanity fan once he entered the NBA. He gave the Raps their first honourable identity.

[dhsilv2]

Oh no.

I appreciate the giant finger Demar has extended to all his most vitriolic haters this season, but...no. You want to start up a Joe Johnson v. DeMar Derozan thread? Well, I doubt it will get much traffic, but at least there will be something to talk about.

That's actually a good and kinda cool comp to do.

[XTC]

Vince was overrated during his career and after

False. The majority of the people who say this are Raptors fans or people who never watched VC in his prime. There is a reason why he was once the favorite player of a lot of our own current favorite players.

What Raptors fan has called Carter overrated? Carter is an icon up in Canada. Get your facts straight before spewing all this misinformation.

This board sometimes.