Please take Vucevic back

[The Effect]

Umm.......i would, and would think twice about it

WC is the definition of average and doesnt do anything as well as vuc does

Even if WCJ is a "worse" player, he does comparable stuff some nights for $50 million less and isn't going to eat up a huge usage amount like Vuc does, which was not always a good thing for our team.

Add to that Vuc is declining as a player while WCJ is still improving. Yea....I will stay with WCJ.

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Is he though?
His shooting % and averages are right in line with what he did in chicago, excepts hes now doing it on a 8-35 team.

career averages\%
11.5 ppg 8.8 Rpg, 2 apg, .9 bpg, .7 spg 50/74/29 shooting
This year
13 ppg, 10rpg, 2.7 apg, 0.6 bpg, .7 spg, 49/72/33 shooting

He hasnt really improved in anything outside of 3pt shooting since his rookie year and his stats are about the same every year. Is he slightly better this year? sure, but its nothing drastic

[Optimus_Steel]

I get the sense that Bulls fans are jaded with Wendell because he was a high draft pick and had high expectations for him, but he doesn't suck. He is a solid player. Vuc is certainly better than he has shown this year, he'll turn it around and show better. Got a feeling Vuc will do well in the playoffs.

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[JF5]

He just played the most spineless, embarrassing half of basketball I've ever seen. This guy SUCKS. I can't believe he put up that great all-star year recently. His defense is better than expected, but good lord is his offense BAD this year. He isn't even a 3rd option on a championship team.

He'll be instrumental in the playoffs. He's in a situation where the offense completely revolves around the perimeter (When he was once the focal point in Orlando). Sucks ZL is out to not remedy the situation. But you'll be happy once everyone gets on the same page.

[thelead]

Even if WCJ is a "worse" player, he does comparable stuff some nights for $50 million less and isn't going to eat up a huge usage amount like Vuc does, which was not always a good thing for our team.

Add to that Vuc is declining as a player while WCJ is still improving. Yea....I will stay with WCJ.

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Is he though?
His shooting % and averages are right in line with what he did in chicago, excepts hes now doing it on a 8-35 team.

career averages\%
11.5 ppg 8.8 Rpg, 2 apg, .9 bpg, .7 spg 50/74/29 shooting
This year
13 ppg, 10rpg, 2.7 apg, 0.6 bpg, .7 spg, 49/72/33 shooting

He hasnt really improved in anything outside of 3pt shooting since his rookie year and his stats are about the same every year. Is he slightly better this year? sure, but its nothing drastic

$24million: 16/11/4 on 44/33/70 splits in 33mpg (31 years old)
$7mil (14 next): 13/10/3 on 49/33/72 splits in 29mpg (22 years old)

I don't see ANY justification to want Vuc over WCJ when the extra $10 mil could be spent on additional talent on a roster.

[fendilim]

Too much to expect from your third option compared to when he was first option here

[thelead]

Too much to expect from your third option compared to when he was first option here

If he could just hit his jumpers and play some defense, I bet they would be happy with him. We know he can’t play defense so the hope is that he not miss open jumpers at least. He has been a mess most of the season.

[Last Guardian]

God no. Softness is a huge problem with this team, we don’t need king of the softies back

[AaronB]

Oh, and did we mention that that the Magic got Franz out of the deal?

I will take a 7-33 team over buddy ball 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.

[Skin]

Still overjoyed that we moved past Mr. Fool's Gold. But to say we got WCj, Franz and another pick coming is one of the few things that has brought me joy of being a Magic fan in the last decade+. lol

[pepe1991]

People just don't understand basketball. That's pretty much it. Or they never watch any basketball outside bubble of their own team so they have some distorted reality. If they do, they would understand why somebody like Barnes on Warriors is 11 ppg player, and few months later is 20 ppg player on Dallas. And why he would be 10 ppg player today, if he returns to Warriors.

4 different players, same role. Same fan complaint.
2011-2014 Heat and Bosh. People couldn't top crying how overrated he was. He wasn't. he went from playing major role ( first option ) on Toronto to playing 3rd option, perimeter oriented. He went from shooting around 34% outside 16 feet to shooting almost half of shots.
Ofc his efficiency and counting stats, went down. But that was only possible way how Wade and Lebron could work. Wade was horrific outside shooter and they had to add 3 shooters around them to open foor.

Cavs Kevin Love. Basically same thing. From 26 and 13 to being glorified spot up shooter in corner and being 16 -10 guy.
Same thing. Irving and Lebron needed spacing. He had to play what he was given.

Kevin Garnett on Celtics. From 24 and 13 guy to 16 and 9 guy. Guy was just 32 in second year with Boston. Guy went from shooting 25% of shots from mid range to...shoting 40% of shots from mid range.

And now it's Vuc thing. Derozan needs spacing, that's why he is most common pick& roll partner with Vuc, Vuc drags off his man. But that also means Vuc is mainly floor spacer. As usual, with 2 uber high usage scorers, his offense does not come in rythm, rather sporadic and in waves. In general bulls standing at 27-15 is basically miracle, given how often somebody is out. Right now 3 out of 5 orginal starters are hurt ( Derozan and Vuc only starting). They aslo had 3 weeks where whole team had Covid quaranteen.

last example is Davis, guy who is probably top 15 player in nba ( top 10? ) guy averaged 28 ppg without Lebron, 22 points with Lebron, once again, turned into 3rd option, behind Westbrook, his efficiency also dropped off with counting stats.

Wendell Carter, for all praise that he got, averages hardly 13 points on 10 rebounds, while being incapable of playing center. Guy also has downright tragjectory. Started season strong, but since December his efficiency is dipping below league's average, mainly because he is 27% three point shooter since November ended. Wendell showed some signs of improvment, but as usual, got hurt.

Vuc is excellent player and one of key reasons why Derozan is having best season in years. He freezes big from overhelping and allows Derozan to drive because Vuc's man has to stick to him on perimeter. Aldrige did similar things, but it was in period when Aldrige wasn't high usage 3 poitn shooter ( next year he had to quit basketball).
All those "soft, gutless, low energy" crap is just that. Crap. people were labeling Pau Gasol soft whole his life. In reality, whoever team he left, was falling apart after his departure, and won everything that was possible to win in basketball ( despite being robbed from finals MVP in 2009 ).

[drsd]

He just played the most spineless, embarrassing half of basketball I've ever seen. This guy SUCKS. I can't believe he put up that great all-star year recently. His defense is better than expected, but good lord is his offense BAD this year. He isn't even a 3rd option on a championship team.

10 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks, and 2 steals, with only 1 TO and one would given.

Vučević' game is much more than points.

Plus the game was on the road and a team should always forecast a loss in a road game. Agains the Grizz, this was the expected loss.

Another way of looking at this: Vučević scorned 250% more than the player he was guarding!

Who the heck is Alfonzo McKinnie ???? The answer to that question, given that he stated, explores your frustration.


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[paperboymafia]

I like Vuc and how he represented Orlando for so many years irrespective of results but that train has left the station on a one way ticket

[IllMagic04]

People just don't understand basketball. That's pretty much it. Or they never watch any basketball outside bubble of their own team so they have some distorted reality. If they do, they would understand why somebody like Barnes on Warriors is 11 ppg player, and few months later is 20 ppg player on Dallas. And why he would be 10 ppg player today, if he returns to Warriors.

4 different players, same role. Same fan complaint.
2011-2014 Heat and Bosh. People couldn't top crying how overrated he was. He wasn't. he went from playing major role ( first option ) on Toronto to playing 3rd option, perimeter oriented. He went from shooting around 34% outside 16 feet to shooting almost half of shots.
Ofc his efficiency and counting stats, went down. But that was only possible way how Wade and Lebron could work. Wade was horrific outside shooter and they had to add 3 shooters around them to open foor.

Cavs Kevin Love. Basically same thing. From 26 and 13 to being glorified spot up shooter in corner and being 16 -10 guy.
Same thing. Irving and Lebron needed spacing. He had to play what he was given.

Kevin Garnett on Celtics. From 24 and 13 guy to 16 and 9 guy. Guy was just 32 in second year with Boston. Guy went from shooting 25% of shots from mid range to...shoting 40% of shots from mid range.

And now it's Vuc thing. Derozan needs spacing, that's why he is most common pick& roll partner with Vuc, Vuc drags off his man. But that also means Vuc is mainly floor spacer. As usual, with 2 uber high usage scorers, his offense does not come in rythm, rather sporadic and in waves. In general bulls standing at 27-15 is basically miracle, given how often somebody is out. Right now 3 out of 5 orginal starters are hurt ( Derozan and Vuc only starting). They aslo had 3 weeks where whole team had Covid quaranteen.

last example is Davis, guy who is probably top 15 player in nba ( top 10? ) guy averaged 28 ppg without Lebron, 22 points with Lebron, once again, turned into 3rd option, behind Westbrook, his efficiency also dropped off with counting stats.

Wendell Carter, for all praise that he got, averages hardly 13 points on 10 rebounds, while being incapable of playing center. Guy also has downright tragjectory. Started season strong, but since December his efficiency is dipping below league's average, mainly because he is 27% three point shooter since November ended. Wendell showed some signs of improvment, but as usual, got hurt.

Vuc is excellent player and one of key reasons why Derozan is having best season in years. He freezes big from overhelping and allows Derozan to drive because Vuc's man has to stick to him on perimeter. Aldrige did similar things, but it was in period when Aldrige wasn't high usage 3 poitn shooter ( next year he had to quit basketball).
All those "soft, gutless, low energy" crap is just that. Crap. people were labeling Pau Gasol soft whole his life. In reality, whoever team he left, was falling apart after his departure, and won everything that was possible to win in basketball ( despite being robbed from finals MVP in 2009 ).

This is right on the money

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[Xatticus]

[swarlesbarkley]

Has he done the thing where an undersized back-up center has gotten the best of him multiple possessions so he gets mad, throws a tantrum (usually throws the ball), gets a tech, and mentally checks out the rest of the game? If not - you're in for a treat yet! He's got a weird case of short man syndrome.

Happy with WCJ + picks.

[drsd]

Has he done the thing where an undersized back-up center has gotten the best of him multiple possessions so he gets mad, throws a tantrum (usually throws the ball), gets a tech, and mentally checks out the rest of the game? If not - you're in for a treat yet! He's got a weird case of short man syndrome.

Happy with WCJ + picks.

Let's ignore Carter for a second. If the Bulls had Wagner and the Magic had Vučević, would Orlando swap? As the answer is yes, really Carter and another FRP are bonuses in this conversation.


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[Skybox]

Has he done the thing where an undersized back-up center has gotten the best of him multiple possessions so he gets mad, throws a tantrum (usually throws the ball), gets a tech, and mentally checks out the rest of the game? If not - you're in for a treat yet! He's got a weird case of short man syndrome.

Happy with WCJ + picks.

Let's ignore Carter for a second. If the Bulls had Wagner and the Magic had Vučević, would Orlando swap? As the answer is yes, really Carter and another FRP are bonuses in this conversation.


..

You're obviously correct...it was a good deal even BEFORE the CHI pick was better than expected and, even on top of that, BEFORE Wagner outplayed his draft spot. NO DEBATE...great deal for ORL...but why must people find it impossible to appreciate Vuc for what he was? He was a helluva player who did what he could for us in a mature professional manner and yet, people here have to prolong some BS narrative that he was in any way difficult, lazy, whiny...it's sad and pathetic. Stop for a minute -why do YOU think YOU are a better judge of basketball value than the NBA F**king COACHES who twice voted him onto the All-Star roster?

Move on you sad losers. A new era is upon us...somebody else who knows a lot more than you made that trade for CHI. Doesn't make it a big win for them, but obviously there's some basis for the move that you can't appreciate. Pepe's soliloquy above is dead on...He gave us 22 & 12 w/40% from 3 because that's what we needed. If he was doing that in CHI (or asked to) they'd be as limited as we were (they're not).

[swarlesbarkley]

Has he done the thing where an undersized back-up center has gotten the best of him multiple possessions so he gets mad, throws a tantrum (usually throws the ball), gets a tech, and mentally checks out the rest of the game? If not - you're in for a treat yet! He's got a weird case of short man syndrome.

Happy with WCJ + picks.

Let's ignore Carter for a second. If the Bulls had Wagner and the Magic had Vučević, would Orlando swap? As the answer is yes, really Carter and another FRP are bonuses in this conversation.


..

You're obviously correct...it was a good deal even BEFORE the CHI pick was better than expected and, even on top of that, BEFORE Wagner outplayed his draft spot. NO DEBATE...great deal for ORL...but why must people find it impossible to appreciate Vuc for what he was? He was a helluva player who did what he could for us in a mature professional manner and yet, people here have to prolong some BS narrative that he was in any way difficult, lazy, whiny...it's sad and pathetic. Stop for a minute -why do YOU think YOU are a better judge of basketball value than the NBA F**king COACHES who twice voted him onto the All-Star roster?

Move on you sad losers. A new era is upon us...somebody else who knows a lot more than you made that trade for CHI. Doesn't make it a big win for them, but obviously there's some basis for the move that you can't appreciate. Pepe's soliloquy above is dead on...He gave us 22 & 12 w/40% from 3 because that's what we needed. If he was doing that in CHI (or asked to) they'd be as limited as we were (they're not).

I grew to appreciate Vuc for what he was but his weaknesses are still very apparent and sometimes funny.

[drsd]

.... why must people find it impossible to appreciate Vuc for what he was? He was a helluva player who did what he could for us in a mature professional manner and yet, people here have to prolong some BS narrative that he was in any way difficult ....

What drove me crazy was the narrative that he was a bad defender. Yes Vučević is a poor rim defender, but he is an excellent team defender. And an elite defeisive rebounder.

For me Vučević is easily one of the best ever Magicians and a deserving member of the Orlando hall of fame!


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[BlueBalls]

Wait til you get introduced to “Playoff Vuc.”