Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition

[Ducklett]

Just want to point out how phenomenal Darius Garland has become. In last 4 games he dished 51 assist on 9 turnovers.
Cavs prove how simple rebuild can be if you add some practical logic into structure of a roster. Super versitale big + floor general = sucess.

On reciving end of their last W were OKC. Pratcital example how sitting on 60000 picks won't draft you Durant again.
With only SGA to show for, few flashes of GIddey their second best player is guy who they didn't even drafted ( Dort- undrafted). Bunch of fringe nba bodies show up every night.
Sam Presti's bag of tools turned to be... being very lucky in early 2000s with Durant... Since Durant left Presti and OKC are 6th year in a row either without playoffs, or losing in first round.

Basically rebuild via lottery in nutshell. Few get super lucky and draft Lebron, Luka, Durant. Most look like fools with bunch of Mo Bamba's, Culvers or Jah Okafor's of the world.

Fair point to a degree. But haven't the Cavs also rebuilt via the draft (Garland included)? Aren't you sort of disproving your own point?

Also, look at the crappy circumstances in which Garland was able to develop as a player, prior to this season. Crap Cavs team also drafting in the lottery a bunch of times, with a malcontent Love eating up their cap and wanting out, some really poor players in the roster and their rookies being played in high volume - something you claim is the typical set of circumstances that teaches rookies bad habits and stops them developing into good players.

I'm not sure you've proven your point or maybe actually proven the opposite this time...

They drafted Garland, Sexton, Okoro, and Mobley. They stole Allen and Lauri from teams who were trying to win now. Literally the strategy many on this board have been pushing for.

[pepe1991]

Just want to point out how phenomenal Darius Garland has become. In last 4 games he dished 51 assist on 9 turnovers.
Cavs prove how simple rebuild can be if you add some practical logic into structure of a roster. Super versitale big + floor general = sucess.

On reciving end of their last W were OKC. Pratcital example how sitting on 60000 picks won't draft you Durant again.
With only SGA to show for, few flashes of GIddey their second best player is guy who they didn't even drafted ( Dort- undrafted). Bunch of fringe nba bodies show up every night.
Sam Presti's bag of tools turned to be... being very lucky in early 2000s with Durant... Since Durant left Presti and OKC are 6th year in a row either without playoffs, or losing in first round.

Basically rebuild via lottery in nutshell. Few get super lucky and draft Lebron, Luka, Durant. Most look like fools with bunch of Mo Bamba's, Culvers or Jah Okafor's of the world.

Fair point to a degree. But haven't the Cavs also rebuilt via the draft (Garland included)? Aren't you sort of disproving your own point?

Also, look at the crappy circumstances in which Garland was able to develop as a player, prior to this season. Crap Cavs team also drafting in the lottery a bunch of times, with a malcontent Love eating up their cap and wanting out, some really poor players in the roster and their rookies being played in high volume - something you claim is the typical set of circumstances that teaches rookies bad habits and stops them developing into good players.

I'm not sure you've proven your point or maybe actually proven the opposite this time...

They drafted Garland, Sexton, Okoro, and Mobley. They stole Allen and Lauri from teams who were trying to win now. Literally the strategy many on this board have been pushing for.

They drafted against media narrative ( Mobley was almost everywhere positioned below Kuminga & Barnes) and they decided to not sign 24 ppg on max contract because they could see through his empty stats.
Also they stopped tanking and added Rubio, Markannen and Allen.

Also look at names they tried to get: TJ McConnell and Caruso. They had very clear vision what they want.

Now, tbh, i don't get what's the point of addition of Markannen, maybe to move him later, but sitting at 26-18, with Garland looking like allstar, and Mobley running with ROY and flirting with all nba-defensive team, it's not hard to figure they did things right this tiem around ( unlike all other endless tankings in their past, minus those Lebron years).

[Knightro]

They drafted against media narrative ( Mobley was almost everywhere positioned below Kuminga & Barnes) and they decided to not sign 24 ppg on max contract because they could see through his empty stats.
Also they stopped tanking and added Rubio, Markannen and Allen.

Also look at names they tried to get: TJ McConnell and Caruso. They had very clear vision what they want.

Now, tbh, i don't get what's the point of addition of Markannen, maybe to move him later, but sitting at 26-18, with Garland looking like allstar, and Mobley running with ROY and flirting with all nba-defensive team, it's not hard to figure they did things right this tiem around ( unlike all other endless tankings in their past, minus those Lebron years).

Mobley was absolutely not behind Kuminga or Barnes on any reputable draft boards. He was either 1st, 2nd or 3rd on basically every single draft prognosticator’s boards.

Cmon now.

[pepe1991]

They drafted against media narrative ( Mobley was almost everywhere positioned below Kuminga & Barnes) and they decided to not sign 24 ppg on max contract because they could see through his empty stats.
Also they stopped tanking and added Rubio, Markannen and Allen.

Also look at names they tried to get: TJ McConnell and Caruso. They had very clear vision what they want.

Now, tbh, i don't get what's the point of addition of Markannen, maybe to move him later, but sitting at 26-18, with Garland looking like allstar, and Mobley running with ROY and flirting with all nba-defensive team, it's not hard to figure they did things right this tiem around ( unlike all other endless tankings in their past, minus those Lebron years).

Mobley was absolutely not behind Kuminga or Barnes on any reputable draft boards. He was either 1st, 2nd or 3rd on basically every single draft prognosticator’s boards.

Cmon now.

Not consensus , but there were articles suggesting Kuminga should be top 3. Especially during G league season, later it fizzled out.
My whole point with Cavs was that their drafting was logical. Founded point guard who is actually good at what PG should be good at- decision making and making people around him better. Paired him with two way talent at wing who is very versitale. . Added some sort of talents in free agency, reforged leadership with crafty veterans. Rebuild completed.

Imo, most rebuilding teams can't resist urgency to "try one more year " in lottery and in same time they burn money onto first player who shows any signs of life. Many, many teams, including Orlando ( and imo, i fear they will do it with Cole) would burn their 100M exstension on Sexston after 24 ppg season. Cavs didn't. Props to them for doing so. You can read on other thread how there are ideas how we should try to throw bank of money onto Anfernee Simons....

[Knightro]

They drafted against media narrative ( Mobley was almost everywhere positioned below Kuminga & Barnes) and they decided to not sign 24 ppg on max contract because they could see through his empty stats.
Also they stopped tanking and added Rubio, Markannen and Allen.

Also look at names they tried to get: TJ McConnell and Caruso. They had very clear vision what they want.

Now, tbh, i don't get what's the point of addition of Markannen, maybe to move him later, but sitting at 26-18, with Garland looking like allstar, and Mobley running with ROY and flirting with all nba-defensive team, it's not hard to figure they did things right this tiem around ( unlike all other endless tankings in their past, minus those Lebron years).

Mobley was absolutely not behind Kuminga or Barnes on any reputable draft boards. He was either 1st, 2nd or 3rd on basically every single draft prognosticator’s boards.

Cmon now.

Not consensus , but there were articles suggesting Kuminga should be top 3. Especially during G league season, later it fizzled out.
My whole point with Cavs was that their drafting was logical. Founded point guard who is actually good at what PG should be good at- decision making and making people around him better. Paired him with two way talent at wing who is very versitale. . Added some sort of talents in free agency, reforged leadership with crafty veterans. Rebuild completed.

Imo, most rebuilding teams can't resist urgency to "try one more year " in lottery and in same time they burn money onto first player who shows any signs of life. Many, many teams, including Orlando ( and imo, i fear they will do it with Cole) would burn their 100M exstension on Sexston after 24 ppg season. Cavs didn't. Props to them for doing so. You can read on other thread how there are ideas how we should try to throw bank of money onto Anfernee Simons....

The Cavs tanked for 3 full seasons and hit home runs on two top 5 picks during that time frame.

This is the Magic’s second season of actively tanking. If they follow the Cavs model exactly, they’ll look to be competitive again in 23-24.

What am I missing? The Magic just aren’t as far along the process as the Cavs were when they decided to try and be competitive again.

[thelead]

Mobley was a consensus top 4 player and #3 on most boards behind Cade and Green. Let's not change the narrative.

[RookieStar]

Mobley was a consensus top 4 player and #3 on most boards behind Cade and Green. Let's not change the narrative.

Agree. As Magic fans most of us are/were tired of big men and prefered the scoring wings/guards. However, Mobley is/was top3 in majority of the consensus. Its only on personal FAN's choice that Mobley was not.

[pepe1991]

Mobley was absolutely not behind Kuminga or Barnes on any reputable draft boards. He was either 1st, 2nd or 3rd on basically every single draft prognosticator’s boards.

Cmon now.

Not consensus , but there were articles suggesting Kuminga should be top 3. Especially during G league season, later it fizzled out.
My whole point with Cavs was that their drafting was logical. Founded point guard who is actually good at what PG should be good at- decision making and making people around him better. Paired him with two way talent at wing who is very versitale. . Added some sort of talents in free agency, reforged leadership with crafty veterans. Rebuild completed.

Imo, most rebuilding teams can't resist urgency to "try one more year " in lottery and in same time they burn money onto first player who shows any signs of life. Many, many teams, including Orlando ( and imo, i fear they will do it with Cole) would burn their 100M exstension on Sexston after 24 ppg season. Cavs didn't. Props to them for doing so. You can read on other thread how there are ideas how we should try to throw bank of money onto Anfernee Simons....

The Cavs tanked for 3 full seasons and hit home runs on two top 5 picks during that time frame.

This is the Magic’s second season of actively tanking. If they follow the Cavs model exactly, they’ll look to be competitive again in 23-24.

What am I missing? The Magic just aren’t as far along the process as the Cavs were when they decided to try and be competitive again.

I said

"Cavs prove how simple rebuild can be if you add some practical logic into structure of a roster. Super versitale big + floor general = sucess.

On reciving end of their last W were OKC. Pratcital example how sitting on 60000 picks won't draft you Durant again.
With only SGA to show for, few flashes of GIddey their second best player is guy who they didn't even drafted ( Dort- undrafted). Bunch of fringe nba bodies show up every night."

They indeed tanked 3 years. But they drafted pretty damn well twice out of three times. Also there is logical pairing in Garland and Mobley. But i give them most credit for not overreacting on Sexston stats and not throwing huge money at him.

[Bensational]

Dosunmu getting the start for Chicago and delivering.

I can’t help but wish we had him in our depth charts to go to when Suggs and Cole went down. A Suggs/Ayo backcourt would be so awesome to watch.

[drsd]

Mobley was absolutely not behind Kuminga or Barnes on any reputable draft boards. He was either 1st, 2nd or 3rd on basically every single draft prognosticator’s boards.

Cmon now.

I was 105.8% sure the Magic would've drafted Kuminga. That Mobley would have been available below Kuminga, that would have been an even better outcome than the Suggs pick.

[Skybox]

Mobley was absolutely not behind Kuminga or Barnes on any reputable draft boards. He was either 1st, 2nd or 3rd on basically every single draft prognosticator’s boards.

Cmon now.

I was 105.8% sure the Magic would've drafted Kuminga. That Mobley would have been available below Kuminga, that would have been an even better outcome than the Suggs pick.

By draft night, Mobley was picked by most ahead of Kuminga...but, at earlier points in the year, Kuminga was as high as #1. If GSW hadn't taken him, I don't think WeHam could have resisted him at 8. I'm still a fan of what Kuminga can be, but I think the draft still looks about right (as far as the first 8 choices) and Franz is, by far, the player most outplaying his draft position. I still think Suggs will be worthy of his #4 spot. Barnes is great and he's certainly Masai's type, but I just feel like he's a lot closer to his ceiling...Not saying TOR will ever regret the choice, but I don't have any problem with ours either. Kuminga landed in the perfect spot...if he were in ORL, he'd be averaging 18 ugly inefficient points and learning to play hero ball as the bright light on our roster. Nightly tug of war for the ball with Cole GSW is keeping him in a humble role, focusing on what his strengths are and developing his team play and defense. I'd love to get him, especially after a little GSW seasoning, but not for Suggs or Franz. I would trade our unprotected pick for Kuminga. He'd be #1 for sure in this draft class.

[pepe1991]

Thing about our draft is fact that even if we didn't trade Vuc, we would still won same amount of games, maybe couple more, and still be in play to draft either Kuminga or Franz.
Our full-tank only gave us 5th pick, Suggs, who is not playing like 5th pick.

I'm more intrested to see how Wiseman looks once he returns from injury. It's kind a hilarous that team with second best record ( 31-12 ) also has most assets in nba. They could help out our tank buddy Pistons and take Grant. But in same time, why change anything, if you can win title with current roster?

[drsd]

Thing about our draft is fact that even if we didn't trade Vuc, we would still won same amount of games, maybe couple more, and still be in play to draft either Kuminga or Franz.
Our full-tank only gave us 5th pick, Suggs, who is not playing like 5th pick.

I'm more intrested to see how Wiseman looks once he returns from injury. It's kind a hilarous that team with second best record ( 31-12 ) also has most assets in nba. They could help out our tank buddy Pistons and take Grant. But in same time, why change anything, if you can win title with current roster?

And-1 (but Ross or Harris do provide valuable depth for GSW).

On draft night I expected Kuminga and Moody to be Magicians. Who do they play with now: Wiseman. Frankly I would be happy for any or all to become Magicians still. Especially if we are talking about Bamba, Isaac, Okeke, Harris, Ross, and the two trade-picks as the assets to get some/all of those three.


Question for pepe: how do you think Wiseman would work at C with F-Wagner and Carter as the forwards?

..

[tooler]

https://theathletic.com/3076449/2022/01/18/sources-lakers-coach-frank-vogels-job-in-serious-jeopardy-despite-jazz-win/

I think someone made this joke already this season, but we could definitely get Frank Vogel fired again on Friday.

[RookieStar]

https://theathletic.com/3076449/2022/01/18/sources-lakers-coach-frank-vogels-job-in-serious-jeopardy-despite-jazz-win/

I think someone made this joke already this season, but we could definitely get Frank Vogel fired again on Friday.

lol... I know its bad but... lol

[basketballRob]

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[Xatticus]

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Just don't let Aminu's doctors near him and he should be fine and ready for the playoffs.

[basketballRob]

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Just don't let Aminu's doctors near him and he should be fine and ready for the playoffs.

More and more, I see players out an extended period after meniscus surgery. Aminu, JJJ, and Wiseman off the top of my head. Must be something in the data that suggests a longer rehabilitation is better for the player long-term. I know coming back to soon can cause permanent damage.

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[CZ Eddie]

"The Lakers have six assistant coaches listed on their staff:
David Fizdale, Phil Handy, Mike Penberthy, Miles Simon, Quinton Crawford and John Lucas III."

Fizdale next man up?

Wonder if Kidd is wondering "what if" right now.

[pepe1991]

"The Lakers have six assistant coaches listed on their staff:
David Fizdale, Phil Handy, Mike Penberthy, Miles Simon, Quinton Crawford and John Lucas III."

Fizdale next man up?

Wonder if Kidd is wondering "what if" right now.

If you are Fizdale, you already got fired twice, both times you looked like fool, do you even want that job?
Memphis saga was fiasco, sitting DPOY Gasol was foolish.
Knicks saga was dumpster fire, he tried to build team around.... Kevin Knox?
And now he would walk into situation where you have team that starts Ariza, plays Carmelo Anthony serious min and expects Stanley Johnson, and has Howard- Jordan center rotation . This team would be world beater... if it's 2013, not 2022.

There is objective possiblity that they will miss playoffs. If they arive in playin tournament with dead tired Lebron, semi injuried Davis and they have to play younger, hungry teams like Minessota or even Nuggets and Clippers, it won't be pretty for them. We talk about team that was up almost 20 vs Pacers than surrender -10 points within last 2 min to play. They don't defend perimeter, they don't defend paint...and worst part... next year it's probably same team, just even older.

Won't even talk about Westbrook. In calendar year 2022 he averages 14 points on 15 shots and 32% FG and 25% for 3. Yet another player who is basically unplayable since his athletics started to fade