GT: Nets @ Cav's - 3:00 PM 1/17/22

[Prokorov]

That clear path foul was so stupid. Really screwed us over.

I dont get how ours was a clear path but the one on brown wasnt

[Prokorov]

Makes you wonder what adding Durant would be like

rewatch the bulls game

[Prokorov]

Looked great mid way through the 4th. Kyrie/Harden just couldn't make shots when it mattered.

Really disappointing.

We let Garland do whatever he wanted. We put no pressure on him to get the ball out of his hand. we defended him giving him 6 feet of space. We let him run pick and rolls. we let him come off screens clean. I mean, they had no other offensive threats to do anything with the ball. should have made him give it up at half court.

Okoro, Mobley, Allen are all terrible/non threats from three. we should have packed it in and hard double garland. I mean they scored 115. at the very least it would have been no worse.

I thought both patty sat to much in the 4th. and the Brown/Blake/LMA lineup was gross.

Kyrie/Harden pairing looked great. did great sharing the ball and when either was off ball they did great as a spacer or attacking closeouts off the catch.

I dont mind losing because we miss shots on good looks late. but to me we should have been up 8+ points not looking to come back. We scored at will especially with Ky/Harden in the lineup. if we manufactored any stops we would have gone on multiple huge runs instead of 1 or 2 small ones.

Losing to a 1 man offense when you have 2 mega stars who both play extremely well just leaves a bad taste in the mouth

[GTR11]

The Sixers are not the org to get away from drama. They are a constant soap opera just like us.

Yes but if Harden wants to go to Philly they need to trade for him. Where else can he go where there is cap space?

The Sixers have actually been on a roll as of late while we have been inconsistent ever since Kyrie came back

This isn't a coincidence.

Before Ky's interveiw today, I think everyone still had hope but that's shattered now. This explains Harden's liking of the twit from Legion Hoops. I can see him walk away without hesitation.

I do think KD, Harden and management need to sit down now to try and work out the best solution. If it means Kyrie getting traded, so be it..

I try to support every Nets fan out there and if they taking it to another level I promote them as hard as I can. These guys actually doing some good work and I suggest to you guys to support them and give your like so YouTube algorithms will suggest them.

https://youtu.be/OMzloyb0nqA

Pretty much guy knew something before anything and suggested a trade option for Harden few videos before. However this is pretty good one too. They talk a little about Kyrie and share opinions, they also answer chat.

Sometimes I chip in supperchat to support them and give heads up.

Harden going to Philly has real legs. Knowing Harden since he got here, this dude is no BS taken guy. Look at how he dealt with DJ from the door, look how he answer questions. I don't doubt that guy for a second. Also it's been speculated month ago about Dame and Harden joining Biid in Phily.

Today Kyrie just killed it. Since I caught Covid I'm on isolation and sipping. I want to go blank and just watch football. This news just been force fed to me from my friends. I'm in a dark place right now.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Harden knows hes not the lead guy on a Championship team.

You think he really wants that pressure? In Philly of all places?

In Brooklyn he gets to hid behind KD. And often Kyrie.

[Prokorov]

Harden knows hes not the lead guy on a Championship team.

You think he really wants that pressure? In Philly of all places?

In Brooklyn he gets to hid behind KD. And often Kyrie.

The reality does not match the narrative in this thread. We know KD is going nowhere and isnt concerned. We know Kyrie is going nowhere and isnt concerned. Rumors around James but he hasnt shown any indication he doesnt want to be back.

Listening to the postgame from Kyrie and Harden, you would think these guys just won by 15. talking about confidence and opportunity.

Harden when asked about the big 3 not playing togehter and just come back and now KD out "Its not what we expected when we set out, but that time is ahead of us. we have a great opportunity to build. several road games, home for 2, then back on the road. we are optomistic looking forward.

Kyrie on the same question "our time is coming, its coming... it may not be right now with K(D) out, but its coming"

Tough loss tonight but you can see how despite KD being better then both of them Kyrie/Harden is a more natural offensive pairing then Harden/KD. And our offense runs smoother with just harden or just Kyrie then just KD since he isnt the best playmaker/ball handler. obviously all 3 are great

We went on like a 17-2 run or something last year with Kyrie/Harden. They seem to be in stride. Kyrie makes our offense look alot better and Nash finally starting Edwards has made a big difference in our spacing. Getting Joe back will be big. hurt us late playing brown/blake/LMA with no wing shooter.

Wiz/Spurs/Wolves should be a 3-0 trip. i mean nash is always an x-factor but a week from today we could be 30-6, in first place, and getting news on how close Joe is to returning.

A Marks trade would be a nice boost, if we can add tough 1.5-way role guy

[LOUiS-D]

That clear path foul was so stupid. Really screwed us over.

I dont get how ours was a clear path but the one on brown wasnt

I don't even try to guess anymore. The criteria was changed to make it 'clearer' and every commentating crew in the league is baffled by every review and has zero certainty predicting the outcome. Just make it like FIBA already and target the intentionality of the break away foul. If you foul hard enough that it slows or stops the developing break it's a flagrant 1, otherwise play on and let them get the bucket. It's just fking stupid as it is.

[NetsWorld]

Cavs got a lot of foul calls in the third quarter and got many benefits of the doubt. They shot more foul shots as well. I think the Kyrie/Harden duo on the road will win us A LOT of games.

[MrDollarBills]

Looked great mid way through the 4th. Kyrie/Harden just couldn't make shots when it mattered.

Really disappointing.

We let Garland do whatever he wanted. We put no pressure on him to get the ball out of his hand. we defended him giving him 6 feet of space. We let him run pick and rolls. we let him come off screens clean. I mean, they had no other offensive threats to do anything with the ball. should have made him give it up at half court.

Okoro, Mobley, Allen are all terrible/non threats from three. we should have packed it in and hard double garland. I mean they scored 115. at the very least it would have been no worse.

I thought both patty sat to much in the 4th. and the Brown/Blake/LMA lineup was gross.

Kyrie/Harden pairing looked great. did great sharing the ball and when either was off ball they did great as a spacer or attacking closeouts off the catch.

I dont mind losing because we miss shots on good looks late. but to me we should have been up 8+ points not looking to come back. We scored at will especially with Ky/Harden in the lineup. if we manufactored any stops we would have gone on multiple huge runs instead of 1 or 2 small ones.

Losing to a 1 man offense when you have 2 mega stars who both play extremely well just leaves a bad taste in the mouth

Yeah, I thought that we should have been forcing Garland to give up the ball and put the onus on the others to score.

I'm not too upset with this loss because had we hit some good looks, we would have won, but here's where Nash comes in to haunt us: lack of adjustments.

[gigantes]

People discounting CLE out of hand are being silly. They're a young, growing problem for the rest of the East, and already the East's best team in point differential. They have a rare collection of ~7 footers with a variety of impactful skills, starting with Mobley & Fro. Also including Kevin Love, who came back recently and has been fantastic.

Anyway, there's another problem with Harden that I don't see listed above, and it's that even if we can keep him, he likely has to get locked in at the max or near-max for what... another four years? That's pretty scary for a guy who'll be 33 next season, has a tonne of wear on his body, and plays a pretty bruising game. So even if he stays healthy, it's really hard to see that enormous chunk of the cap being well spent down the road.

I'm thinking it might be better to cut losses (probably with Kyrie too), then use all the new cap room to sign players who want to play with Durant, a top org, and some pretty good young players. Plus a top coach too, hopefully Marks not screwing it up this time.

[Suwanee]

People discounting CLE out of hand are being silly. They're a young, growing problem for the rest of the East, and already the East's best team in point differential. They have a rare collection of ~7 footers with a variety of impactful skills, starting with Mobley & Fro. Also including Kevin Love, who came back recently and has been fantastic.

Anyway, there's another problem with Harden that I don't see listed above, and it's that even if we can keep him, he likely has to get locked in at the max or near-max for what... another four years? That's pretty scary for a guy who'll be 33 next season, has a tonne of wear on his body, and plays a pretty bruising game. So even if he stays healthy, it's really hard to see that enormous chunk of the cap being well spent down the road.

I'm thinking it might be better to cut losses (probably with Kyrie too), then use all the new cap room to sign players who want to play with Durant, a top org, and some pretty good young players. Plus a top coach too, hopefully Marks not screwing it up this time.

Did you forget KD signed a four year extension last year? Harden is one year younger than KD. If he signs an extension (BIG IF) this coming offseason, they'll end the contracts at about same age. If we're holding on to KD, might as well Harden. I doubt you're going to get any player better than Harden even with cap space.

[gigantes]

Did you forget KD signed a four year extension last year? Harden is one year younger than KD. If he signs an extension (BIG IF) this coming offseason, they'll end the contracts at about same age. If we're holding on to KD, might as well Harden. I doubt you're going to get any player better than Harden even with cap space.

How could any Nets fan possibly forget that?

Anyway, just because KD has so far been a huge anomaly in terms of injury-recovery and effectiveness at his age doesn't mean the slightest thing in terms of how it'll go with others around him. Not to mention, Durant takes better care of his body than Harden, and stuff like that adds up over time.

This season we're already getting a glimpse of what an older Beard is going to look like, for reasons no fault of his own, and it's hard for me to see a declining version of that being worth ~$45-50m/yr for years ahead. But the better point is that it's hard to predict anything for sure, and that's a fortune of cap room to invest in such a situation.

I don't think any possibility is off the table at this point. If Kyrie changed his mind and got the vaccine, I could see the Nets re-signing him and Beard, giving themselves a couple more seasons with their big three at near-peak efficiency. But at the other extreme, I could see those two leaving, and if it somehow doesn't work out with FA's, Durant wanting to move on, putting us back in rebuild.

But why wouldn't FA's want to play at a top destination, with arguably the best player in the world? I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that.

[Prokorov]

Looked great mid way through the 4th. Kyrie/Harden just couldn't make shots when it mattered.

Really disappointing.

We let Garland do whatever he wanted. We put no pressure on him to get the ball out of his hand. we defended him giving him 6 feet of space. We let him run pick and rolls. we let him come off screens clean. I mean, they had no other offensive threats to do anything with the ball. should have made him give it up at half court.

Okoro, Mobley, Allen are all terrible/non threats from three. we should have packed it in and hard double garland. I mean they scored 115. at the very least it would have been no worse.

I thought both patty sat to much in the 4th. and the Brown/Blake/LMA lineup was gross.

Kyrie/Harden pairing looked great. did great sharing the ball and when either was off ball they did great as a spacer or attacking closeouts off the catch.

I dont mind losing because we miss shots on good looks late. but to me we should have been up 8+ points not looking to come back. We scored at will especially with Ky/Harden in the lineup. if we manufactored any stops we would have gone on multiple huge runs instead of 1 or 2 small ones.

Losing to a 1 man offense when you have 2 mega stars who both play extremely well just leaves a bad taste in the mouth

Yeah, I thought that we should have been forcing Garland to give up the ball and put the onus on the others to score.

I'm not too upset with this loss because had we hit some good looks, we would have won, but here's where Nash comes in to haunt us: lack of adjustments.

Harden missing 6 FTS was flukey too.

It is frustrating because Nash has seen first hand how our offense struggles with 1 star and no spacing. he sees how teams play us when its just harden and no shooters active. He has the blue print. This is the lineup cleveland started and that dropped 65 1st half points:

Garland --> only star
Okoro --> 30.6% from three
Markanen --> 31.9% from three
Mobley --> 28.3% from three
Allen --> 12.5% from three (1-8 on the year)

How you dont pack the paint completely and make someone besides Garland handle the ball/shoot is beyond me. Again, as much hate as Nash deserves i probably overdo it by 10%. And some adjustments are beyond a rookie/2nd year coach. but this is so basic and so obvious it blows your mind at how it isnt clear coming into the game that should be the focus

[Prokorov]

People discounting CLE out of hand are being silly. They're a young, growing problem for the rest of the East, and already the East's best team in point differential. They have a rare collection of ~7 footers with a variety of impactful skills, starting with Mobley & Fro. Also including Kevin Love, who came back recently and has been fantastic.

They were. They came back to earth after a great start and have gone 6-5 since rubios injury vs. some very poor competition. They are not terrible, but we clearly had the more talented team last night. and having a bunch of bigs who dont stretch the floor isnt something you should worry about in 2022.

Anyway, there's another problem with Harden that I don't see listed above, and it's that even if we can keep him, he likely has to get locked in at the max or near-max for what... another four years? That's pretty scary for a guy who'll be 33 next season, has a tonne of wear on his body, and plays a pretty bruising game. So even if he stays healthy, it's really hard to see that enormous chunk of the cap being well spent down the road.

You give him the deal and hope you get 2 years. then you live with the John Wall/KEvin love type scenario hoping you got a title from it

I'm thinking it might be better to cut losses (probably with Kyrie too), then use all the new cap room to sign players who want to play with Durant, a top org, and some pretty good young players. Plus a top coach too, hopefully Marks not screwing it up this time.

there is no "all the new cap room". we are so far over the cap even if we dump Kyrie/Harden for nothing we would only have about 17 million in cap space. and that doesnt even account for Claxton/Mills needing new deals at years end.

And KD probably doesnt want a rebuild and losing his 2 good friends at 33 years old

[Jay555]

I'm thinking it might be better to cut losses (probably with Kyrie too), then use all the new cap room to sign players who want to play with Durant, a top org, and some pretty good young players. Plus a top coach too, hopefully Marks not screwing it up this time.

There is no new cap room. If we lose Harden and Kyrie in the off-season, this team will be **** up. It will be KD and a bunch of rooks and a possible borderline star if lucky. No picks. No salary cap. KD’s final prime years would be wasted.

You do everything you can to retain Harden if you are the management. Or you hope he can do a sign and trade which would bring us some assets. But he can walk if he doesn’t want to.

[Prokorov]

I'm thinking it might be better to cut losses (probably with Kyrie too), then use all the new cap room to sign players who want to play with Durant, a top org, and some pretty good young players. Plus a top coach too, hopefully Marks not screwing it up this time.

There is no new cap room. If we lose Harden and Kyrie in the off-season, this team will be **** up. It will be KD and a bunch of rooks and a possible borderline star if lucky. No picks. No salary cap. KD’s final prime years would be wasted.

You do everything you can to retain Harden if you are the management. Or you hope he can do a sign and trade which would bring us some assets. But he can walk if he doesn’t want to.

Kyrie isnt going anywhere. He will pick up his option for sure. There isnt a big market for him and there are even fewer teams with the cap space to come close to paying him. he wants to be in NJ/near home and he is tight with KD. I can see Harden leaving, but KD/Kyrie will be a duo for a while.

sign and trade for harden would make sense. if harden wants out, you accommodate him. thats how the league works. you want to be star friendly. it comes back. its part of why KD/Kyrie are here and not on the knicks. We can get a big TPE, maybe some picks and better role guys then what we have.

it would obviously be a big hit but Kyrie+KD is still 50 win basketball with at least marginal title hopes

[gigantes]

People discounting CLE out of hand are being silly. They're a young, growing problem for the rest of the East, and already the East's best team in point differential. They have a rare collection of ~7 footers with a variety of impactful skills, starting with Mobley & Fro. Also including Kevin Love, who came back recently and has been fantastic.

They were. They came back to earth after a great start and have gone 6-5 since rubios injury vs. some very poor competition. They are not terrible, but we clearly had the more talented team last night. and having a bunch of bigs who dont stretch the floor isnt something you should worry about in 2022.

Yeah, well... Rubio fit great for them, so it makes sense there'd be an adjustment period.

The Cavs will be fine down the road, and I frankly like the way their team is built better than ours. Maybe they're not at the top of their game right now, but you can't just pencil them in as a win, and people were borderline doing that earlier.

You give him the deal and hope you get 2 years. then you live with the John Wall/KEvin love type scenario hoping you got a title from it

Alright, you sold me. Makes perfect sense, and I think we can all live with that.

we are so far over the cap even if we dump Kyrie/Harden for nothing we would only have about 17 million in cap space.

Damn, really? I'm pretty bad at understanding that stuff, but really? I thought the biggest hits remaining would be KD & Joe at a combined ~$60m, leaving ~$60 to pay the rest in 2022. That's wrong?

And KD probably doesnt want a rebuild and losing his 2 good friends at 33 years old

Sure he doesn't want a rebuild, but you either swing or sign some assets he's happy with, or he politely asks for a trade. In which case we get a load of assets back and go from there, which I'm not sure would be such a terrible thing considering that this iteration just isn't working for one reason or another.

There is no new cap room. If we lose Harden and Kyrie in the off-season, this team will be **** up. It will be KD and a bunch of rooks and a possible borderline star if lucky. No picks. No salary cap. KD’s final prime years would be wasted.

You do everything you can to retain Harden if you are the management. Or you hope he can do a sign and trade which would bring us some assets. But he can walk if he doesn’t want to.

So if the 2022 cap is set to expand to ~$120m, where exactly is the money going outside of KD & Joe?

The picks are a sunk cost, so you're not going to get them back regardless, man. They were worth two seasons worth of the big three, but it's just not working out for one reason or another. Doesn't mean you necessarily have to go four more years with an unpredictable Kyrie and a declining Harden.

There's a lot of possible scenarios; my main point is that things could work out for the best without necessarily going in any particular direction.

Having said all that, I think there's still a chance this team pulls it all together by the end. A real coach, plus Kyrie vaxxed, maybe a canny deal at the deadline, plus Joe back, makes us a top contender again IMO.

[Suwanee]

Did you forget KD signed a four year extension last year? Harden is one year younger than KD. If he signs an extension (BIG IF) this coming offseason, they'll end the contracts at about same age. If we're holding on to KD, might as well Harden. I doubt you're going to get any player better than Harden even with cap space.

How could any Nets fan possibly forget that?

Anyway, just because KD has so far been a huge anomaly in terms of injury-recovery and effectiveness at his age doesn't mean the slightest thing in terms of how it'll go with others around him. Not to mention, Durant takes better care of his body than Harden, and stuff like that adds up over time.

This season we're already getting a glimpse of what an older Beard is going to look like, for reasons no fault of his own, and it's hard for me to see a declining version of that being worth ~$45-50m/yr for years ahead. But the better point is that it's hard to predict anything for sure, and that's a fortune of cap room to invest in such a situation.

I don't think any possibility is off the table at this point. If Kyrie changed his mind and got the vaccine, I could see the Nets re-signing him and Beard, giving themselves a couple more seasons with their big three at near-peak efficiency. But at the other extreme, I could see those two leaving, and if it somehow doesn't work out with FA's, Durant wanting to move on, putting us back in rebuild.

But why wouldn't FA's want to play at a top destination, with arguably the best player in the world? I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that.

We’re talking about both Harden and Kyrie gone. That leaves KD and a bunch of role players. And as Prok pointed out, even with both contracts off the book, we only have $17mil to spend. That’s not even max money. Good luck trying to lure a top talent that’s better than Harden with that.

I seriously doubt the Giannis’ of the world are lining up and saying: fxxk it. I’m going to take a significant pay cut to team up with KD to form a BIG TWO!!!

Best case scenario is a S&T. But Harden and his new team aren’t stupid. They aren’t going to give you equal value which will deplete their new roster. Then it’s going to become another saga where both sides play hard balls on and on and on. I for one am not looking forward to it.

[gigantes]

We’re talking about both Harden and Kyrie gone. That leaves KD and a bunch of role players. And as Prok pointed out, even with both contracts off the book, we only have $17mil to spend. That’s not even max money. Good luck trying to lure a top talent that’s better than Harden with that.

I seriously doubt the Giannis’ of the world are lining up and saying: fxxk it. I’m going to take a significant pay cut to team up with KD to form a BIG TWO!!!

Best case scenario is a S&T. But Harden and his new team aren’t stupid. They aren’t going to give you equal value which will deplete their new roster. Then it’s going to become another saga where both sides play hard balls on and on and on. I for one am not looking forward to it.

Already responded to all that above.

[Suwanee]

We’re talking about both Harden and Kyrie gone. That leaves KD and a bunch of role players. And as Prok pointed out, even with both contracts off the book, we only have $17mil to spend. That’s not even max money. Good luck trying to lure a top talent that’s better than Harden with that.

I seriously doubt the Giannis’ of the world are lining up and saying: fxxk it. I’m going to take a significant pay cut to team up with KD to form a BIG TWO!!!

Best case scenario is a S&T. But Harden and his new team aren’t stupid. They aren’t going to give you equal value which will deplete their new roster. Then it’s going to become another saga where both sides play hard balls on and on and on. I for one am not looking forward to it.

Already responded to all that above.

Sorry did not see that.

Ok, if you’re fine with a total rebuild with KD leaving too, there’s really nothing to talk about then. LOL