The TRADE Thread 2021

[BoogieTime]

Also, the lesson with Fox is the best FO's/ownerships dont wait

They dont wait til a player spends half a season putting up negative advanced stats, 25% on threes, bad defense and lack of effort

You sense those qualities from the beginning, and move those players at peak value

Either Monte is late to the party or Vivek is meddling, or both, which means a paralysis of operation.

They've waited too long IMO, but I'm here to see their attempt at moving Fox for value

Hinkie wouldve sensed that motor and he wouldve been gone awhile back

Man, the Fox hate is truly strong with this one.


I think the one thing you really need to understand is no GM around is myopic enough to focus solely on a sample of 30 or 40 games to make a determination on what a player is/will be and ignore their entire career up to that point.

The past 3 years of Fox (and the past month+) paint a mostly different picture from your rhetoric.

What picture is that? The team being better without him on the floor and weak advanced stats?

He hasnt played impactful ball for awhile

[BoogieTime]

Its an interesting worded article by Shams, that the Kings have told Fox that they currently wish to build around him

From my vantage there are one of two reasons for the position. They value him, or as I have said all along, his value is too low to be traded.

Given how many rumors have been flying around, does it make more sense they canvassed the league for his value?

Anyways, at this point it looks like he will be here, by the Kings volition or not, as it is a semi strong stance to take that public. In addition to retaining his value it tarnishes the team's reputation if he than is moved

[LightTheBeam]

Also, the lesson with Fox is the best FO's/ownerships dont wait

They dont wait til a player spends half a season putting up negative advanced stats, 25% on threes, bad defense and lack of effort

You sense those qualities from the beginning, and move those players at peak value

Either Monte is late to the party or Vivek is meddling, or both, which means a paralysis of operation.

They've waited too long IMO, but I'm here to see their attempt at moving Fox for value

Hinkie wouldve sensed that motor and he wouldve been gone awhile back

Man, the Fox hate is truly strong with this one.


I think the one thing you really need to understand is no GM around is myopic enough to focus solely on a sample of 30 or 40 games to make a determination on what a player is/will be and ignore their entire career up to that point.

The past 3 years of Fox (and the past month+) paint a mostly different picture from your rhetoric.

What picture is that? The team being better without him on the floor and weak advanced stats?

He hasnt played impactful ball for awhile

Bolded is a pretty wild statement.

Its pretty clear looking at on/off every year, that even this year the Kings are a far better offensive team when hes on the court.

The opponents ORTG seems to improve when hes not on the court... Question is do we attribute that to Fox being a weak link defensively, or the fact that the opponents bench is not nearly as good as their starters?

If you look at Trae Young and Ja Morant, this theory pretty much holds true. Those teams have managed to put winners around them. Simply looking at on/off would suggest Memphis is better when Morant sits. Misleading stats.

We also have 4 games of data this year (where the Kings went 1-3) and opponents averaged 114ppg against us. Slightly more than the season average.

Again this holds true to last year. Looking at the first 5 games Fox missed, opponents averaged 121.2 ppg against us.

The team defense doesn't improve when he doesn't play, but we know the offense is definitely worse when hes not on the court.

[City of Trees]

I want Sabonis now.

[sacking123]

I still think we can get Simmons without Fox/Hali. It would just come down to picks and whether or not the 6ers can get expirings outside of the ones coming from Sacramento ie Rubio/G. Harris etc.
Was thinking Buddy for Rubio and Barnes for Harris but not the right direction for Orlando. OKC need to get to the salary floor, so they need to add quite a bit of money.

Anyway, I would love the Kings to make a call about Deni Avdija.
If the price isn't too much he could be a good future player with loads of length and potential on the defensive end. The offense isn't pretty at this point, but the tools are there.

[rpa]

I still think we can get Simmons without Fox/Hali

Color me unconvinced.

I think once the season started there was no chance the Sixers would trade Simmons short of a massive overpay or a [super]star (Dame, Beal). They know they need a 2nd star next to Embiid--vet pieces aren't going to cut it. They're far more likely to be able to land one of those in free agency (Harden S&T) or at the draft, when:
a) Pick spots are known
b) Teams decide on a direction

In either of those cases (draft, FA) they're in a far better position with 1 really good asset (Simmons) than a bunch of OK/good ones (Fox, late lottery pick, Barnes, etc). If they deal with a team like Brooklyn they'll prefer that one good asset. If they deal with a team like Portland or DC then they shouldn't have trouble finding a team willing to off-load picks (now with a known value) for Simmons.

Morey is essentially paying for options, but what he's paying doesn't have much value. Some will say he's paying with a whole year of Embiid's prime, but the thing is: if he traded Simmons for a bunch of vets/picks is that really giving them a shot to win with Embiid? Probably not. So if you're going to waste a year of his prime either way best to put yourself in the best position going forward.

[wco81]

Lakers supposedly interested in Barnes.

THT and Nunn? Actually that wouldn't be enough for matching salaries?

[rpa]

Lakers supposedly interested in Barnes.

THT and Nunn? Actually that wouldn't be enough for matching salaries?

Does that package even have positive value? THT wasn't that good to begin with and doesn't look like he's improved at all. Of course, the Lakers are a dumpster fire this year (yay!) so maybe he's just fallen into that?

[sacking123]

I still think we can get Simmons without Fox/Hali

Color me unconvinced.

I think once the season started there was no chance the Sixers would trade Simmons short of a massive overpay or a [super]star (Dame, Beal). They know they need a 2nd star next to Embiid--vet pieces aren't going to cut it. They're far more likely to be able to land one of those in free agency (Harden S&T) or at the draft, when:
a) Pick spots are known
b) Teams decide on a direction

In either of those cases (draft, FA) they're in a far better position with 1 really good asset (Simmons) than a bunch of OK/good ones (Fox, late lottery pick, Barnes, etc). If they deal with a team like Brooklyn they'll prefer that one good asset. If they deal with a team like Portland or DC then they shouldn't have trouble finding a team willing to off-load picks (now with a known value) for Simmons.

Morey is essentially paying for options, but what he's paying doesn't have much value. Some will say he's paying with a whole year of Embiid's prime, but the thing is: if he traded Simmons for a bunch of vets/picks is that really giving them a shot to win with Embiid? Probably not. So if you're going to waste a year of his prime either way best to put yourself in the best position going forward.

If the 6ers big plan is Harden, they're stuck if the Nets (KD) don't want Simmons. The easiest way to Harden is to open up the space. That means unloading Harris, which is going to be difficult without adding decent value.

The hardest part of the puzzle is giving the 6ers enough pieces to still have as much of a chance this year as they would with an underperforming Harris.
Worst case scenario is they go after another FA, Beal if he opts out, Lavine etc. If they luck out, they just cut out a just above average player that makes max money.

[rpa]

If the 6ers big plan is Harden, they're stuck if the Nets (KD) don't want Simmons.

If they elect to keep Kyrie, Simmons is a beyond perfect fit on that team.

And if they don't want Simmons? I think it'd be far easier to find what the Nets do want using Simmons as bait as opposed to vets/picks.

The easiest way to Harden is to open up the space. That means unloading Harris, which is going to be difficult without adding decent value.

Your second sentence explains why the first sentence isn't the easiest way.

Secondly, creating cap space without a fool proof plan in place to use it is the worst idea in the world. Don't you remember Vlade's 2nd biggest blunder? He trades picks for cap space (when he didn't even have to!!!!) without an agreement by a player to sign. Remember how he got turned down by Wes Mathews after making that space?

[wco81]

Lakers supposedly interested in Barnes.

THT and Nunn? Actually that wouldn't be enough for matching salaries?

Does that package even have positive value? THT wasn't that good to begin with and doesn't look like he's improved at all. Of course, the Lakers are a dumpster fire this year (yay!) so maybe he's just fallen into that?

Could be some wishful thinking by Lakers fans on their board.

Or who knows, maybe some NBA teams covet THT.

[LightTheBeam]

Lakers supposedly interested in Barnes.

THT and Nunn? Actually that wouldn't be enough for matching salaries?

Does that package even have positive value? THT wasn't that good to begin with and doesn't look like he's improved at all. Of course, the Lakers are a dumpster fire this year (yay!) so maybe he's just fallen into that?

Could be some wishful thinking by Lakers fans on their board.

Or who knows, maybe some NBA teams covet THT.

My family lives in LA. I lived there for some time. The Lakers fans friends of mine think they are going to get Bradley beal, salary cap be damned. Using tht + Nunn + a 1st 5 years out.

I'd say wishful thinking isn't out of the question. But when you can are used to superstars flocking it becomes the expectation.

Sent from my SM-G988U1 using RealGM mobile app

[sacking123]

If the 6ers big plan is Harden, they're stuck if the Nets (KD) don't want Simmons.

If they elect to keep Kyrie, Simmons is a beyond perfect fit on that team.

And if they don't want Simmons? I think it'd be far easier to find what the Nets do want using Simmons as bait as opposed to vets/picks.

The easiest way to Harden is to open up the space. That means unloading Harris, which is going to be difficult without adding decent value.

Your second sentence explains why the first sentence isn't the easiest way.

Secondly, creating cap space without a fool proof plan in place to use it is the worst idea in the world. Don't you remember Vlade's 2nd biggest blunder? He trades picks for cap space (when he didn't even have to!!!!) without an agreement by a player to sign. Remember how he got turned down by Wes Mathews after making that space?

Completely different scenario. Morey and Harden have history, he traded for Harden, worked with him for many years and gave him what he wants and he tried to trade for him last year. He wants Harden. He wants Harden desperately. And because they have history and like working together, they would have more than a good idea whether or not it will happen and how it can happen.
Trying to equate what Morey would be trying to do is drawing a long bow.
Everyone knows the play, Morey will figure out the best way for the 6ers to get Harden without giving up any more assets than he has to. It's the way to the best player available to the 6ers. A Simmons trade, nor a Simmons S&T can get them there.
If he believes the best way is to sign Harden outright and get 1-2 future draft picks from Simmons/Harris which he can use to put the third star (Maxey plus 2/3 picks) next to Embiid/Harden then why wouldn't he do it?

[dozencousins]

I want Sabonis now.

He hurt his ankle tonight !

[BoogieTime]

Even if this ownership can't afford to have multiple down ticket sales seasons, if that's Vivek's issue, or if Vivek is just an impetuous meddler who wants to win now, with our remains schedule it makes more sense to wait til the offseason to make some type of win now push. Our pick will be worth a lot more.

Sabonis looks out for a long while, taking away one carrot

[dozencousins]

Update :

Via my source as of right now we are very close to aquiring Ben Simmons and it looks like it will happen soon now . The deal looks like it will include Fox ! However the Kings would not be sending the Kings ransom as Morey had been wanting overall .

I am told if this deal does not happen today or tomorrow it is likely Monte will walk away from any Phily deal and move on .

I expect a deal done very soon & if so expect many more moves there after .

[LightTheBeam]

Even if this ownership can't afford to have multiple down ticket sales seasons, if that's Vivek's issue, or if Vivek is just an impetuous meddler who wants to win now, with our remains schedule it makes more sense to wait til the offseason to make some type of win now push. Our pick will be worth a lot more.

Sabonis looks out for a long while, taking away one carrot

Vivek doesn't have any basketball sense. He just wants ticket sales. Trading for a "star" and giving casuals some new hope is going to lead to ticket sales.

[BoogieTime]

Update :

Via my source as of right now we are very close to aquiring Ben Simmons and it looks like it will happen soon now . The deal looks like it will include Fox ! However the Kings would not be sending the Kings ransom as Morey had been wanting overall .

I am told if this deal does not happen today or tomorrow it is likely Monte will walk away from any Phily deal and move on .

I expect a deal done very soon & if so expect many more moves there after .

If it includes Fox it will be a third team, as the Sixers have let it be known that they don't want him to be a centerpiece through their assortment of beat writers, and we will have to include this years unprotected and maybe more sweetener IMO to cover the value difference.

Could it happen? We'll see

[LightTheBeam]

Update :

Via my source as of right now we are very close to aquiring Ben Simmons and it looks like it will happen soon now . The deal looks like it will include Fox ! However the Kings would not be sending the Kings ransom as Morey had been wanting overall .

I am told if this deal does not happen today or tomorrow it is likely Monte will walk away from any Phily deal and move on .

I expect a deal done very soon & if so expect many more moves there after .

If it includes Fox it will be a third team, as the Sixers have let it be known that they don't want him to be a centerpiece through their assortment of beat writers, and we will have to include this years unprotected and maybe more sweetener IMO to cover the value difference.

Could it happen? We'll see

Feels like posturing.

Kings could have offered Fox for Simmons.

Morey says "we don't really want Fox, take Tobias and give us Barnes and you got a deal"

Monte says "we don't want Tobias..."

Monte then goes to media, "If we can't get Simmons, we turn our attention towards Sabonis".

Morey scours market, sees ATL offering Collins, nobody wants to take Tobias. Embid is killing it nightly and putting Sixers back in the convo.

This + Fox improving play over the past month and pressure from Embid not to waste his season.

I still think the deal that makes the most sense from Philly POV is to take on Barnes, 1 of Bagley/Tristan, Mitchell + picks. Fill the team with good players, young talent and picks. Creates more flexibility than taking Fox. + the history between Morey & Harden suggests that Morey knows already if Harden is coming or not. If he is, it will make sense to take on those picks & Mitchell so you can use them to dump Tobias later.

[dozencousins]

Update :

Via my source as of right now we are very close to aquiring Ben Simmons and it looks like it will happen soon now . The deal looks like it will include Fox ! However the Kings would not be sending the Kings ransom as Morey had been wanting overall .

I am told if this deal does not happen today or tomorrow it is likely Monte will walk away from any Phily deal and move on .

I expect a deal done very soon & if so expect many more moves there after .

If it includes Fox it will be a third team, as the Sixers have let it be known that they don't want him to be a centerpiece through their assortment of beat writers, and we will have to include this years unprotected and maybe more sweetener IMO to cover the value difference.

Could it happen? We'll see

Feels like posturing.

Kings could have offered Fox for Simmons.

Morey says "we don't really want Fox, take Tobias and give us Barnes and you got a deal"

Monte says "we don't want Tobias..."

Monte then goes to media, "If we can't get Simmons, we turn our attention towards Sabonis".

Morey scours market, sees ATL offering Collins, nobody wants to take Tobias. Embid is killing it nightly and putting Sixers back in the convo.

This + Fox improving play over the past month and pressure from Embid not to waste his season.

I still think the deal that makes the most sense from Philly POV is to take on Barnes, 1 of Bagley/Tristan, Mitchell + picks. Fill the team with good players, young talent and picks. Creates more flexibility than taking Fox. + the history between Morey & Harden suggests that Morey knows already if Harden is coming or not. If he is, it will make sense to take on those picks & Mitchell so you can use them to dump Tobias later.

I can say this Monte is not posturing . Weather or not Morey is who know's ? If he is there will be no deal now or later . I know that Monte is ready to move on if the deal is not agreed to really soon now !