Jokic 49/14/10 as DEN beats LAC

Ballerhogger · Post #41 » by **Ballerhogger** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:33 am

?s=20 Goat pass holy **** ty

Maverick41 · Post #42 » by **Maverick41** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:33 am

Absolutely amazing player. The most offensively skilled and highest IQ big man I've ever seen.

Blame Rasho · Post #43 » by **Blame Rasho** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:36 am

On any given game is or can be the best player in the nba. You can say that about less than a handful of players in any season in any year. He is a mofo and all other teams would love to have him. He is a transcendent player who would excel in any generation and not just this one.

CIN-C-STAR · Post #44 » by **CIN-C-STAR** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:37 am

HotRocks34 wrote:
JazzUte88 wrote:No. Jokic is really good but he let Zubac go off for like 32/34 points or so.

He’s a top 5 player but Giannis, Durant, LeBron (when he wants), Curry aren’t as much of a liability on defense.

So, ok. Go and look at this list. (Advanced Plus/Minus). Sort by (click on) "Def" under "Overall RAPTOR".

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Jokic 2nd best in the league. The next closest person on your list, Giannis, is at 29.

He was targeted on defense tonight, that's true. But his defensive improvement is monstrous. Just to help understand the improvement, his Defense RAPTOR number (higher positive is better) last year was +0.7, and this year it's +7.0.

Thus, not only is he not a liability on defense now, he improves the defense significantly.

Saw him get switched onto Reggie Jackson in crunch time tonight and make him give up the ball.
He was a monster on the defensive glass and they absolutely needed it. Gordon and Green looked fatigued out there.
That steal at the end there where he got it to Morris who blew a layup but then Jokic followed it and tipped it back in? Ridiculous.
They absolutely needed that steal, down 1 at the time with just over a minute left, and most guys are not picking that clean like that it might even end up just a deflection which is a 50-50 ball with no fast break.
Denver wasn't sending much help on the PnR opting instead to stay home on shooters. I think the Zubac numbers tonight were really just a result of that being the expected worst option for the Clippers on offense, which is smart defense that just didn't work. Credit to Zubac, he made the shots they gave him and had a career night.
But Jokic doesn't look like a bad defender at all to me. He has some limitations, but his rebounding is legit and his positional defense and instincts are good enough that I don't get all the criticism.

Ballerhogger · Post #45 » by **Ballerhogger** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:38 am

Sadly nuggets mangment gave MPJ a max like deal when he had back isssues when he was drafted …… Jamal who’s been out for long time and haven’t drafted decent defenders around him . So I don’t how he can get this core to the finals .

marcush · Post #46 » by **marcush** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:42 am

Love him. Great to watch.

HotRocks34 · Post #47 » by **HotRocks34** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:42 am

CIN-C-STAR wrote:But Jokic doesn't look like a bad defender at all to me. He has some limitations, but his rebounding is legit and his positional defense and instincts are good enough that I don't get all the criticism.

Reggie got him a number of times tonight on switches. But Reggie can do that to anyone, as he did in the playoffs last year. It happens, especially to centers matched up against guards.

Overall, Jokic is a defensive stud now. I think even Draymond mentioned it in some recent podcast he did.

TheFire · Post #48 » by **TheFire** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:46 am

Holy cow, he looked like the greatest player ever the last 5 min in 4th and in OT. I’m not even kidding. He was unstoppable. Scored on virtually every possession and when he didn’t have the ball and teammates missed, he would grab the offensive rebound and score himself.

Infinite Llamas · Post #49 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:51 am

Only casuals think that Jokic is a bad defender

CIN-C-STAR · Post #50 » by **CIN-C-STAR** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:55 am

art_tatum wrote:
HotRocks34 wrote:
art_tatum wrote:Can't be best player without ever making real noise in the playoffs.

Like making the Conference Finals? That kind of noise?

Go back on this forum to that run. Everyone was saying Murray was the better player at the time especially during the jazz series. Evidence is right in the search function. Jokic has shown nothing in terms of raising the teams ceiling with a average or below avg team.
Unlike other top players like LeBron KD

His team right now is trash:
2nd best rotation player: Aaron Gordon
3rd brp: Will Barton
4th brp: Jeff Green?
5th: Monte Morris?
6th: Campazzo?

You're calling that average but an average team would be like the Raptors or Knicks. If the above guys were the core to a team, they wouldn't be "average or below average," they'd likely be edging out the Orlando Magic as the absolute worst team in the league.
Instead, with Jokic they are 23-20 and 6th in the West with a solid differential. I'd say what he's doing is a bit more relevant than what you're crediting him for.

What team this bad did KD ever take anywhere? :lol:

Cupcake has played on loaded teams his entire career, except when he was first drafted in Seattle and those teams were trash with him as well :roll:

papajoe · Post #51 » by **papajoe** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:58 am

Lot of white saviour in the Jokic debate. Lots of white men vicariously living through him why you can't get an honest debate when comparing him and embiid. embiid is better and it's not close.

Needed overtime to beat a clippers team missing it's two best players. Not MVP worthy.

Such a terrible take that you thought it was threadworthy? Strike for race baiting
-zimpy27

BigGargamel · Post #52 » by **BigGargamel** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:02 am

I can't stop watching that game winning pass. Double teamed, yet somehow found the open guy 30 feet away.

papajoe wrote:Needed overtime to beat a clippers team missing it's two best players. Not MVP worthy.

LOL dude dropped a 50 point triple double with trash teammates, yet somehow it's his fault. This board is too much.

Embiid fans acting like he didn't just drop 50 points on by far the worst team in the league. These are all NBA teams. A win is a win.

Sofia · Post #53 » by **Sofia** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:04 am

Sharkboy242 wrote:It sucks he was 1 point a way from a 50 point triple double. How many players have a 50 point triple double?

Off top of my head, it might only be Harden, Bird and maybe Lebron

DaFan334 · Post #54 » by **DaFan334** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:05 am

Ballerhogger wrote:Sadly nuggets mangment gave MPJ a max like deal when he had back isssues when he was drafted …… Jamal who’s been out for long time and haven’t drafted decent defenders around him . So I don’t how he can get this core to the finals .

The calvary is coming... the league is on notice... Jamal tore his ACL on April 12th of last year and looks like he will be back in the next month or two. Pretty normal for an ACL. What do you feel they should have done with MPJ? He has max talent and Denver needed to lock him up. Its part of their culture to reward players more than big market teams would and it so far has paid off. MPJ has max-level talent and could still show that. What defenders has Denver missed in the draft? They have found good defensive players outside the draft, but for the most part, the league doesn't have many good defenders. Denver has drafted very well overall or made very smart moves. With Murray, the Nuggets have the best 2 man game in the league and the potential to win any game. To deny this is pretty ignorant.

DaFan334 · Post #55 » by **DaFan334** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:06 am

papajoe wrote:Lot of white saviour in the Jokic debate. Lots of white men vicariously living through him why you can't get an honest debate when comparing him and embiid. embiid is better and it's not close.

Needed overtime to beat a clippers team missing it's two best players. Not MVP worthy.

Way to be racist and a homer at the same time...

Sofia · Post #56 » by **Sofia** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:11 am

Sofia wrote:
Sharkboy242 wrote:It sucks he was 1 point a way from a 50 point triple double. How many players have a 50 point triple double?

Off top of my head, it might only be Harden, Bird and maybe Lebron

Ok I looked it up, Harden has 5, Westbrook has 3, Elgin and Wilt have 2, Kareem and Richie Guerin (who!?) have 1.

Harden is the only one with a 60 pointer

Ballerhogger · Post #57 » by **Ballerhogger** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:20 am

DaFan334 wrote:
Ballerhogger wrote:Sadly nuggets mangment gave MPJ a max like deal when he had back isssues when he was drafted …… Jamal who’s been out for long time and haven’t drafted decent defenders around him . So I don’t how he can get this core to the finals .

The calvary is coming... the league is on notice... Jamal tore his ACL on April 12th of last year and looks like he will be back in the next month or two. Pretty normal for an ACL. What do you feel they should have done with MPJ? He has max talent and Denver needed to lock him up. Its part of their culture to reward players more than big market teams would and it so far has paid off. MPJ has max-level talent and could still show that. What defenders has Denver missed in the draft? They have found good defensive players outside the draft, but for the most part, the league doesn't have many good defenders. Denver has drafted very well overall or made very smart moves. With Murray, the Nuggets have the best 2 man game in the league and the potential to win any game. To deny this is pretty ignorant.

counting on MPJ to be healthy is bad idea, why didn’t the wait until the off season.. . We will see what Jamal can do when he comes back . The nuggets defense is bad as team . Luckily Jokic can carry them to the playoffs .

HotRocks34 · Post #58 » by **HotRocks34** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:22 am

papajoe wrote:Lot of white saviour in the Jokic debate. Lots of white men vicariously living through him why you can't get an honest debate when comparing him and embiid. embiid is better and it's not close.

Needed overtime to beat a clippers team missing it's two best players. Not MVP worthy.

I'm Latino and have never identified as white. I look white, but I never thought of myself as "white" and, to be honest, I despised people like Larry "white savior" Bird growing up. Later I came to respect Bird because while some people tried to make him a "white hero," he wasn't having any of it.

Ball is about ballers. If you can play, you can play. Nothing else matters. That's the beauty of ball.

Jokic is a straight baller.

Ugly0598 · Post #59 » by **Ugly0598** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:23 am

art_tatum wrote:They're essentially a .50 team with a ok cast.
Can't be best player without ever making real noise in the playoffs.
For example all those advanced stats and he can't lead his team to a better win ratio as curry when playing with the crappy warriors team last year (who i don't think is best player either) but when playing warriors were 37-26

Game also went into overtime for those raw stats. Great game tho.
Dude got swept by the suns and gave the Lakers as much competition as a severely injured heat team in 2020.
Top 5 maybe 3 player but definitely not clear cut best player.

I agree personally but that’s being a contrarian.

BigGargamel · Post #60 » by **BigGargamel** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:29 am

Ballerhogger wrote:
DaFan334 wrote:
Ballerhogger wrote:Sadly nuggets mangment gave MPJ a max like deal when he had back isssues when he was drafted …… Jamal who’s been out for long time and haven’t drafted decent defenders around him . So I don’t how he can get this core to the finals .

The calvary is coming... the league is on notice... Jamal tore his ACL on April 12th of last year and looks like he will be back in the next month or two. Pretty normal for an ACL. What do you feel they should have done with MPJ? He has max talent and Denver needed to lock him up. Its part of their culture to reward players more than big market teams would and it so far has paid off. MPJ has max-level talent and could still show that. What defenders has Denver missed in the draft? They have found good defensive players outside the draft, but for the most part, the league doesn't have many good defenders. Denver has drafted very well overall or made very smart moves. With Murray, the Nuggets have the best 2 man game in the league and the potential to win any game. To deny this is pretty ignorant.
counting on MPJ to be healthy is bad idea, why didn’t the wait until the off season.. . We will see what Jamal can do when he comes back . The nuggets defense is bad as team . Luckily Jokic can carry them to the playoffs .

The Nuggets are average to above average in most defensive metrics. Hardly a "bad defensive team" in today's NBA landscape.

If anything, they're a bad offensive team.

Is Jokic the best player in the NBA?