Embiid is the Best Big man in the Game

[Mavrelous]

This is the Duncan/KG early 2000s saga all over again

[Wilfried]

All the stats (PER, VORP, BPM) point at 3 players being the best in the NBA: Jokic, Giannis and Embiid.

Embiid has climbed up from around #8 about a month ago, he's getting much better but also playing as a solo the last games.

But I think Jokic, Giannis and Embiid are indeed the best in the business atm and I'm ok with not choosing between those 3, they are all incredibly good with their +'s and sometimes -'s.

[antonac]

Seriously. If Embiid would have played 41 minutes last night, he would have had 70 points and 20 rebounds.

Do better, people.

he was also playing the worst team in the league while Jokic was playing a team fighting to stay in a play off spot.

probably the most marked difference was that Jokic did a lot of his work in the clutch with the game on the line, given Embiid's play off performances it's perhaps not surprising he does his best work against terrible teams with no stakes.

Just stop. I can read a box score. Who the f was playing for the Clippers last night - huh?

Zubac with 32? Reggie FREAKING Jackson? What has he ever done?

And what the f is that word salad about "Jokic did a lot of his work in the clutch"? Don't get me wrong - Jokic had a great game, and he helped the team win - IN OVERTIME AT HOME - against a team that will be lucky to be a play-in team (again - I can read the box score and see who played).

So...why didn't Embiid "do his work in the clutch"?

BECAUSE HE SCORED FIFTY FREAKING POINTS IN TWENTY SEVEN MINUTES

dkjghas;ojgahsdjvhslkj;dghSDJhd!!!!??!!!!TII&RFYFUFULVOUYFG

You Jokic fanboys are INSUFFERABLE.

Mods - PLEASE LOCK ALL FUTURE EMBIID VERSUS JOKIC THREADS

(thanks)

got you reaching.

[bebopdeluxe]

he was also playing the worst team in the league while Jokic was playing a team fighting to stay in a play off spot.

probably the most marked difference was that Jokic did a lot of his work in the clutch with the game on the line, given Embiid's play off performances it's perhaps not surprising he does his best work against terrible teams with no stakes.

Just stop. I can read a box score. Who the f was playing for the Clippers last night - huh?

Zubac with 32? Reggie FREAKING Jackson? What has he ever done?

And what the f is that word salad about "Jokic did a lot of his work in the clutch"? Don't get me wrong - Jokic had a great game, and he helped the team win - IN OVERTIME AT HOME - against a team that will be lucky to be a play-in team (again - I can read the box score and see who played).

So...why didn't Embiid "do his work in the clutch"?

BECAUSE HE SCORED FIFTY FREAKING POINTS IN TWENTY SEVEN MINUTES

dkjghas;ojgahsdjvhslkj;dghSDJhd!!!!??!!!!TII&RFYFUFULVOUYFG

You Jokic fanboys are INSUFFERABLE.

Mods - PLEASE LOCK ALL FUTURE EMBIID VERSUS JOKIC THREADS

(thanks)

Don't get a heart attack over this lol.

I'm cool. Just BEYOND tired of the "Jokic's walking on water" ish. Let me know when he feeds the masses with a few fish and a loaf of bread - OK?

[Gasolina]

Since it seems like Jokic’s vastly improved defense is here to stay, there just isn’t any legitimate argument for Embiid over him. It’s just not close, sorry Sixers fans. One guy is an offensive system unto himself who only gets better in the clutch, and the other guy picks up 8 turnovers and chucks his team out of the playoffs because he’s extremely limited if he has to create for himself and others.

Embiid’s a great, all-time player. He isn’t remotely as versatile or as valuable as Jokic and it’s hard to see that ever changing, barring injury.

How the heck do you define Embiid as “extremely limited” if he has to create for himself or others? Guy is the complete package. Jokic is relied on more as a playmaker and better at it. Embiid is the better defender in terms of controlling the paint and being more versatile in switching situations. Both are unstoppable scoring when they assert themselves, which both do consistently.

This argument between him and Jokic is splitting hairs imo, they are both great, and anyone on either side is not likely to change their mind unless we see a philly/Denver finals.

Because Embiid is a bad playmaker who also can’t self-create in late game situations. His handle is far worse than Jokic’s and he doesn’t have nearly the passing or court vision that Jokic does. He’s very far from the complete package and we have seen him struggle to create in every late game playoff situation he has been in.

More than anything the Sixers loss to the Hawks was on Embiid’s limitations, not Simmons’.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Since it seems like Jokic’s vastly improved defense is here to stay, there just isn’t any legitimate argument for Embiid over him. It’s just not close, sorry Sixers fans. One guy is an offensive system unto himself who only gets better in the clutch, and the other guy picks up 8 turnovers and chucks his team out of the playoffs because he’s extremely limited if he has to create for himself and others.

Embiid’s a great, all-time player. He isn’t remotely as versatile or as valuable as Jokic and it’s hard to see that ever changing, barring injury.

How the heck do you define Embiid as “extremely limited” if he has to create for himself or others? Guy is the complete package. Jokic is relied on more as a playmaker and better at it. Embiid is the better defender in terms of controlling the paint and being more versatile in switching situations. Both are unstoppable scoring when they assert themselves, which both do consistently.

This argument between him and Jokic is splitting hairs imo, they are both great, and anyone on either side is not likely to change their mind unless we see a philly/Denver finals.

Because Embiid is a bad playmaker who also can’t self-create in late game situations. His handle is far worse than Jokic’s and he doesn’t have nearly the passing or court vision that Jokic does. He’s very far from the complete package and we have seen him struggle to create in every late game playoff situation he has been in.

More than anything the Sixers loss to the Hawks was on Embiid’s limitations, not Simmons’.

He was playing on a torn meniscus in the playoffs.

And he's leading the league in clutch pts this season by a very wide margin. It's harder to defend him in late game situations this season because there isn't a guy standing under the rim 95% of the time (Simmons).

[Gasolina]

How the heck do you define Embiid as “extremely limited” if he has to create for himself or others? Guy is the complete package. Jokic is relied on more as a playmaker and better at it. Embiid is the better defender in terms of controlling the paint and being more versatile in switching situations. Both are unstoppable scoring when they assert themselves, which both do consistently.

This argument between him and Jokic is splitting hairs imo, they are both great, and anyone on either side is not likely to change their mind unless we see a philly/Denver finals.

Because Embiid is a bad playmaker who also can’t self-create in late game situations. His handle is far worse than Jokic’s and he doesn’t have nearly the passing or court vision that Jokic does. He’s very far from the complete package and we have seen him struggle to create in every late game playoff situation he has been in.

More than anything the Sixers loss to the Hawks was on Embiid’s limitations, not Simmons’.

He was playing on a torn meniscus in the playoffs.

And he's leading the league in clutch pts this season by a very wide margin.

He's always got some injury excuse, so I don't really buy the torn meniscus thing. Reeks of the same BS excuse-making as LeBron's cast in 2018. His limitations in late-game situations have been exposed by the Hawks, Raptors, and Celtics twice. Now even with his limitations, he's by far the third-best big in the league, after Giannis and Jokic. That's no small feat. But we have seen Jokic's style of play be able to lift his team past playoff opponents to the tune of clawing back from a 3-1 deficit more than once and being able to close out OT playoff games. You can put the ball in Jokic's hands against a set defense in a late-game situation and he can get you a bucket or get a guy open for a shot and make the correct read. Embiid cannot. That point is basically indisputable.

[bebopdeluxe]

Since it seems like Jokic’s vastly improved defense is here to stay, there just isn’t any legitimate argument for Embiid over him. It’s just not close, sorry Sixers fans. One guy is an offensive system unto himself who only gets better in the clutch, and the other guy picks up 8 turnovers and chucks his team out of the playoffs because he’s extremely limited if he has to create for himself and others.

Embiid’s a great, all-time player. He isn’t remotely as versatile or as valuable as Jokic and it’s hard to see that ever changing, barring injury.

How the heck do you define Embiid as “extremely limited” if he has to create for himself or others? Guy is the complete package. Jokic is relied on more as a playmaker and better at it. Embiid is the better defender in terms of controlling the paint and being more versatile in switching situations. Both are unstoppable scoring when they assert themselves, which both do consistently.

This argument between him and Jokic is splitting hairs imo, they are both great, and anyone on either side is not likely to change their mind unless we see a philly/Denver finals.

Because Embiid is a bad playmaker who also can’t self-create in late game situations. His handle is far worse than Jokic’s and he doesn’t have nearly the passing or court vision that Jokic does. He’s very far from the complete package and we have seen him struggle to create in every late game playoff situation he has been in.

More than anything the Sixers loss to the Hawks was on Embiid’s limitations, not Simmons’.

Embiid's limitations? He scored over 30 PPG in that series on A FREAKING TORN MENISCUS.

You people are BRUTAL.

[bebopdeluxe]

Because Embiid is a bad playmaker who also can’t self-create in late game situations. His handle is far worse than Jokic’s and he doesn’t have nearly the passing or court vision that Jokic does. He’s very far from the complete package and we have seen him struggle to create in every late game playoff situation he has been in.

More than anything the Sixers loss to the Hawks was on Embiid’s limitations, not Simmons’.

He was playing on a torn meniscus in the playoffs.

And he's leading the league in clutch pts this season by a very wide margin.

He's always got some injury excuse, so I don't really buy the torn meniscus thing. Reeks of the same BS excuse-making as LeBron's cast in 2018. His limitations in late-game situations have been exposed by the Hawks, Raptors, and Celtics twice. Now even with his limitations, he's by far the third-best big in the league, after Giannis and Jokic. That's no small feat. But we have seen Jokic's style of play be able to lift his team past playoff opponents to the tune of clawing back from a 3-1 deficit more than once and being able to close out OT playoff games. You can put the ball in Jokic's hands against a set defense in a late-game situation and he can get you a bucket or get a guy open for a shot and make the correct read. Embiid cannot. That point is basically indisputable.

Oh, so you don't "buy" that Embiid's play in the Hawks series was impacted by a torn meniscus?

That's nice.

[Hussien Fatal]

Since it seems like Jokic’s vastly improved defense is here to stay, there just isn’t any legitimate argument for Embiid over him. It’s just not close, sorry Sixers fans. One guy is an offensive system unto himself who only gets better in the clutch, and the other guy picks up 8 turnovers and chucks his team out of the playoffs because he’s extremely limited if he has to create for himself and others.

Embiid’s a great, all-time player. He isn’t remotely as versatile or as valuable as Jokic and it’s hard to see that ever changing, barring injury.

How the heck do you define Embiid as “extremely limited” if he has to create for himself or others? Guy is the complete package. Jokic is relied on more as a playmaker and better at it. Embiid is the better defender in terms of controlling the paint and being more versatile in switching situations. Both are unstoppable scoring when they assert themselves, which both do consistently.

This argument between him and Jokic is splitting hairs imo, they are both great, and anyone on either side is not likely to change their mind unless we see a philly/Denver finals.

Because Embiid is a bad playmaker who also can’t self-create in late game situations. His handle is far worse than Jokic’s and he doesn’t have nearly the passing or court vision that Jokic does. He’s very far from the complete package and we have seen him struggle to create in every late game playoff situation he has been in.

More than anything the Sixers loss to the Hawks was on Embiid’s limitations, not Simmons’.

Lol Joel averaged 30 and 12 vs the Hawks but you’re saying they lost due to his limitations? Get real, they lost because they had a Point Guard who can’t make a FT and can’t shoot a lick.

Also Embiid is 1st in the league in clutch points, and the fact you don’t think Embiid can handle shows everybody here that you don’t watch him play. His handles are absolutely ELITE for the Center position.

Joel has a win% of 70% Jokic is 58%. Joel’s impact is higher on both ends.

[Gasolina]

How the heck do you define Embiid as “extremely limited” if he has to create for himself or others? Guy is the complete package. Jokic is relied on more as a playmaker and better at it. Embiid is the better defender in terms of controlling the paint and being more versatile in switching situations. Both are unstoppable scoring when they assert themselves, which both do consistently.

This argument between him and Jokic is splitting hairs imo, they are both great, and anyone on either side is not likely to change their mind unless we see a philly/Denver finals.

Because Embiid is a bad playmaker who also can’t self-create in late game situations. His handle is far worse than Jokic’s and he doesn’t have nearly the passing or court vision that Jokic does. He’s very far from the complete package and we have seen him struggle to create in every late game playoff situation he has been in.

More than anything the Sixers loss to the Hawks was on Embiid’s limitations, not Simmons’.

Embiid's limitations? He scored over 30 PPG in that series on A FREAKING TORN MENISCUS.

You people are BRUTAL.

Yes, his limitations. Players who score 30 ppg can't have limitations? That's news to me, guess Kobe was a flawless player, as was Rockets James Harden.
Embiid is not a guy who can get the ball at the top of the arc and create something for his team against a set offense at the end of the game. He just isn't. There are basically only two 'bigs' that can do that, Giannis and Jokic, so it's not as though it's some great cardinal flaw. But his poor playmaking and turnover-prone play when confronted by doubles is a limitation.

[dhsilv2]

This is the Duncan/KG early 2000s saga all over again

But that was a reasonable debate given they both had years where one was better than the other and there were difference metrics which rated one over the other. This is right now this year is about as one sided as they come.

[Gasolina]

How the heck do you define Embiid as “extremely limited” if he has to create for himself or others? Guy is the complete package. Jokic is relied on more as a playmaker and better at it. Embiid is the better defender in terms of controlling the paint and being more versatile in switching situations. Both are unstoppable scoring when they assert themselves, which both do consistently.

This argument between him and Jokic is splitting hairs imo, they are both great, and anyone on either side is not likely to change their mind unless we see a philly/Denver finals.

Because Embiid is a bad playmaker who also can’t self-create in late game situations. His handle is far worse than Jokic’s and he doesn’t have nearly the passing or court vision that Jokic does. He’s very far from the complete package and we have seen him struggle to create in every late game playoff situation he has been in.

More than anything the Sixers loss to the Hawks was on Embiid’s limitations, not Simmons’.

Lol Joel averaged 30 and 12 vs the Hawks but you’re saying they lost due to his limitations? Get real, they lost because they had a Point Guard who can’t make a FT and can’t shoot a lick.

Also Embiid is 1st in the league in clutch points, and the fact you don’t think Embiid can handle shows everybody here that you don’t watch him play. His handles are absolutely ELITE for the Center position.

Joel has a win% of 70% Jokic is 58%. Joel’s impact is higher on both ends.

I didn't say Embiid can't handle the ball. I said his handle is far worse than Jokic's, which is true. He obviously has a far better handle than bigs like Gobert, Vuc, etc.

And yes, averaging 30 and 12 doesn't make up for his failings in crucial moments. Game 4 - whose fault was that loss? Could it have been Embiid not scoring at all in the second half? How about Embiid having 33 turnovers for the entire series? More than twice as much the actual primary ball handler on his team and 8 more than Trae Young?

Embiid is a great player. Embiid also has limitations. Only the biggest homers can't see that when we have 4 postseason runs worth of corroborating evidence at this point.

[Jadoogar]

Don't tell the Jokic stans.

Apparently hes the best player in the league and cannot be questioned.

lol Jokic also put a 50 point triple double so it's not like he was far behind tonight.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Because Embiid is a bad playmaker who also can’t self-create in late game situations. His handle is far worse than Jokic’s and he doesn’t have nearly the passing or court vision that Jokic does. He’s very far from the complete package and we have seen him struggle to create in every late game playoff situation he has been in.

More than anything the Sixers loss to the Hawks was on Embiid’s limitations, not Simmons’.

He was playing on a torn meniscus in the playoffs.

And he's leading the league in clutch pts this season by a very wide margin.

He's always got some injury excuse, so I don't really buy the torn meniscus thing. Reeks of the same BS excuse-making as LeBron's cast in 2018. His limitations in late-game situations have been exposed by the Hawks, Raptors, and Celtics twice. Now even with his limitations, he's by far the third-best big in the league, after Giannis and Jokic. That's no small feat. But we have seen Jokic's style of play be able to lift his team past playoff opponents to the tune of clawing back from a 3-1 deficit more than once and being able to close out OT playoff games. You can put the ball in Jokic's hands against a set defense in a late-game situation and he can get you a bucket or get a guy open for a shot and make the correct read. Embiid cannot. That point is basically indisputable.

This is a lot of gibberish, he leads the NBA in clutch scoring this year, your indisputable point isn't backed by any stats this season. It's like you can't understand that removing Simmons from the court has improved the floor balance for the Sixers and made it harder to key in on Embiid late because Simmons and his defender aren't hanging out in the dunkers spot.

Embiid leads the NBA in clutch points, dispute that.

[Gasolina]

He was playing on a torn meniscus in the playoffs.

And he's leading the league in clutch pts this season by a very wide margin.

He's always got some injury excuse, so I don't really buy the torn meniscus thing. Reeks of the same BS excuse-making as LeBron's cast in 2018. His limitations in late-game situations have been exposed by the Hawks, Raptors, and Celtics twice. Now even with his limitations, he's by far the third-best big in the league, after Giannis and Jokic. That's no small feat. But we have seen Jokic's style of play be able to lift his team past playoff opponents to the tune of clawing back from a 3-1 deficit more than once and being able to close out OT playoff games. You can put the ball in Jokic's hands against a set defense in a late-game situation and he can get you a bucket or get a guy open for a shot and make the correct read. Embiid cannot. That point is basically indisputable.

This is a lot of gibberish, he leads the NBA in clutch scoring this year, your indisputable point isn't backed by any stats this season. It's like you can't understand that removing Simmons from the court has improved the floor balance for the Sixers and made it harder to key in on Embiid late because Simmons and his defender aren't hanging out in the dunkers spot.

Embiid leads the NBA in clutch points, dispute that.

Hey, if he's able to maintain that in the postseason then I will come back and gladly admit he has made it a conversation again. I'm not weighing the less than half a season of play we've seen this year from him heavier than the 4 postseason runs we've seen him in. So if your argument is strictly that he has overcome these limitations this year, my response is - we'll see!

[NoDopeOnSundays]

He's always got some injury excuse, so I don't really buy the torn meniscus thing. Reeks of the same BS excuse-making as LeBron's cast in 2018. His limitations in late-game situations have been exposed by the Hawks, Raptors, and Celtics twice. Now even with his limitations, he's by far the third-best big in the league, after Giannis and Jokic. That's no small feat. But we have seen Jokic's style of play be able to lift his team past playoff opponents to the tune of clawing back from a 3-1 deficit more than once and being able to close out OT playoff games. You can put the ball in Jokic's hands against a set defense in a late-game situation and he can get you a bucket or get a guy open for a shot and make the correct read. Embiid cannot. That point is basically indisputable.

This is a lot of gibberish, he leads the NBA in clutch scoring this year, your indisputable point isn't backed by any stats this season. It's like you can't understand that removing Simmons from the court has improved the floor balance for the Sixers and made it harder to key in on Embiid late because Simmons and his defender aren't hanging out in the dunkers spot.

Embiid leads the NBA in clutch points, dispute that.

Hey, if he's able to maintain that in the postseason then I will come back and gladly admit he has made it a conversation again. I'm not weighing the less than half a season of play we've seen this year from him heavier than the 4 postseason runs we've seen him in. So if your argument is strictly that he has overcome these limitations this year, my response is - we'll see!

He leads even after missing 11 games, what happened in the past with Simmons isn't relevant to the spacing he has this year.

[bebopdeluxe]

Read on Twitter

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[bebopdeluxe]

This is a lot of gibberish, he leads the NBA in clutch scoring this year, your indisputable point isn't backed by any stats this season. It's like you can't understand that removing Simmons from the court has improved the floor balance for the Sixers and made it harder to key in on Embiid late because Simmons and his defender aren't hanging out in the dunkers spot.

Embiid leads the NBA in clutch points, dispute that.

Hey, if he's able to maintain that in the postseason then I will come back and gladly admit he has made it a conversation again. I'm not weighing the less than half a season of play we've seen this year from him heavier than the 4 postseason runs we've seen him in. So if your argument is strictly that he has overcome these limitations this year, my response is - we'll see!

He leads even after missing 11 games, what happened in the past with Simmons isn't relevant to the spacing he has this year.

Stop it with these pesky FACTS and STATISTICS. This is the RealGM GB - "Home of the HAWT TAKEZ"

[Dutchball97]

Can't Embiid be a MVP level player without him needing to be seen as better than Jokic?