Why did the Lakers break up a championship team so quickly?

[sogood]

The Lakers won the championship just 15 months ago and only 3 players from that team remains (LeBron, Davis, and THT).

Their identity during the championship year was defense. They completely dismantled that by making dumb trades and being cheap and letting go one of their best defensive player (Caruso).

Usually you add pieces to improve that team, not go full 2k.

[Jazz9]

Who knows what goes through the head of people trading for an over the hill WB

[zimpy27]

The Green+Pick28(Jaden McDaniels) trade for Schroeder was the big move after the championship. It started everything.

I think Vogel is the reason for that trade since his defense is based on a Point of Attack (POA) defender, it's the same reason Bradley started in the RS before not going to the bubble and the reason why Bradley after getting waived by everyone is still starting for Lakers now. So I think Schroeder was seen as an upgrade of Bradley in Vogels system. But Green was more important. They made up for it with Caruso getting more minutes and then they just let him walk for nothing.. I can only imagine that they thought it was Vogels system with Davis that was the source of their defense but it was guys like Caruso and Green in combination.

Last season both Davis and LeBron suffered bad injuries. LeBron has only just recovered and Davis still hasn't recovered. Schroeder didn't take their money and walked for nothing. I think they knew they were in trouble in the offseason and thought Westbrook would be able to carry the 21-22 RS.. Well he hasn't gelled with Vogels system at all. He doesn't fit the defense since he isn't a POA defender (it's why they still start Bradley). Westbrook hasn't been given the keys to go get wins either. Whole thing is a mess.

[Slava]

The Green+Pick28(Jaden McDaniels) trade for Schroeder was the big move after the championship. It started everything.

I think Vogel is the reason for that trade since his defense is based on a Point of Attack (POA) defender, it's the same reason Bradley started in the RS before not going to the bubble and the reason why Bradley after getting waived by everyone is still starting for Lakers now. So I think Schroeder was seen as an upgrade of Bradley in Vogels system. But Green was more important. They made up for it with Caruso getting more minutes and then they just let him walk for nothing.. I can only imagine that they thought it was Vogels system with Davis that was the source of their defense but it was guys like Caruso and Green in combination.

Last season both Davis and LeBron suffered bad injuries. LeBron has only just recovered and Davis still hasn't recovered. Schroeder didn't take their money and walked for nothing. I think they knew they were in trouble in the offseason and thought Westbrook would be able to carry the 21-22 RS.. Well he hasn't gelled with Vogels system at all. He doesn't fit the defense since he isn't a POA defender (it's why they still start Bradley). Westbrook hasn't been given the keys to go get wins either. Whole thing is a mess.

I think a lot of it is also LeBron's explicit wish to not play PG and instead play with a high level playmaker. If you remember the suicide squad meme team Magic put together in 2019, he wouldn't stop talking about how he wanted playmakers at every position on the floor to ease the burden on LeBron. Lakers wanted an elite playmaker, unfortunately they did not come to that conclusion when Chris Paul was being moved and banked on Schröder being adequate enough. Schröder never got any kind of synergy with Davis so he was on his way out. Then this offseason they chose Westbrook over a sign and trade for Derozan. They had a coherent idea, they happened to pick the worst option and Westbrook for his part is doing worse than even the skeptics could have imagined him do.

[Liam_Gallagher]

Did you see the playoffs last year? Kuzma, KCP, Caruso, Schroder, Drummond and THT stunk up the joint.

They absolutely couldn't bring those players back.

[wickywack]

The Lakers won the championship just 15 months ago and only 3 players from that team remains (LeBron, Davis, and THT).

Their identity during the championship year was defense. They completely dismantled that by making dumb trades and being cheap and letting go one of their best defensive player (Caruso).

Usually you add pieces to improve that team, not go full 2k.

I'd argue that their "identity" was having the two best players on the floor. Lebron *and* AD were both ridiculously good that post season. Even by NBA standards, that was a top-heavy team - e.g., look at most 2020 post-season advanced stats.

They haven't both been at that level - at least at the same time - since. AD in particular. I'm not sure that 2020 team with *this* AD / Lebron is a championship team. Certainly not with AD out.

Not defending the Lakers' moves since at all, but I think we overrate the importance of them. It starts with AD / Lebron.

[zimpy27]

The Green+Pick28(Jaden McDaniels) trade for Schroeder was the big move after the championship. It started everything.

I think Vogel is the reason for that trade since his defense is based on a Point of Attack (POA) defender, it's the same reason Bradley started in the RS before not going to the bubble and the reason why Bradley after getting waived by everyone is still starting for Lakers now. So I think Schroeder was seen as an upgrade of Bradley in Vogels system. But Green was more important. They made up for it with Caruso getting more minutes and then they just let him walk for nothing.. I can only imagine that they thought it was Vogels system with Davis that was the source of their defense but it was guys like Caruso and Green in combination.

Last season both Davis and LeBron suffered bad injuries. LeBron has only just recovered and Davis still hasn't recovered. Schroeder didn't take their money and walked for nothing. I think they knew they were in trouble in the offseason and thought Westbrook would be able to carry the 21-22 RS.. Well he hasn't gelled with Vogels system at all. He doesn't fit the defense since he isn't a POA defender (it's why they still start Bradley). Westbrook hasn't been given the keys to go get wins either. Whole thing is a mess.

I think a lot of it is also LeBron's explicit wish to not play PG and instead play with a high level playmaker. If you remember the suicide squad meme team Magic put together in 2019, he wouldn't stop talking about how he wanted playmakers at every position on the floor to ease the burden on LeBron. Lakers wanted an elite playmaker, unfortunately they did not come to that conclusion when Chris Paul was being moved and banked on Schröder being adequate enough. Schröder never got any kind of synergy with Davis so he was on his way out. Then this offseason they chose Westbrook over a sign and trade for Derozan. They had a coherent idea, they happened to pick the worst option and Westbrook for his part is doing worse than even the skeptics could have imagined him do.

Yeah LeBron wanted another playmaker for sure and you are seeing some of the fruit of that with Russ-LeBron. LeBron is having a great scoring year but Russ has been a poor defensive fit since he isn't a POA and his scoring efficiency has been awful.

Main mistake was letting Caruso and Green go for nothing really. Sad thing about the Caruso move is that it seemed like he was always going to get shafted. Some think it was the Westbrook move that put Lakers in a tough position to move out Caruso but actually Russ at 44m is the same price of 13m Kuz, 13m KCP and 18m Schroder (which he declined). Lakers always planned not to resign Caruso.

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

The Green+Pick28(Jaden McDaniels) trade for Schroeder was the big move after the championship. It started everything.

The Westbrook trade was essentially Danny Green+McDaniels+KCP+Kuzma+Harrell for Westbrook. What a disaster.

[BlazersBroncos]

Bc LBJ need play wit frndz.

[zimpy27]

The Green+Pick28(Jaden McDaniels) trade for Schroeder was the big move after the championship. It started everything.

The Westbrook trade was essentially Danny Green+McDaniels+KCP+Kuzma+Harrell for Westbrook. What a disaster.

Nah it wasn't. Schroeder wasn't in that trade and Harrell was opting out if not traded.

It was KCP+Kuzma+Pick22 for Westbrook, the trade alone isn't bad but the team construction fell apart when they let go of Caruso and didn't bring in a POA defender. They also focussed too much on shooting in the offseason. Monk and Melo were good finds but they put the team in an awkward spot defensively.

[Slava]

The Green+Pick28(Jaden McDaniels) trade for Schroeder was the big move after the championship. It started everything.

I think Vogel is the reason for that trade since his defense is based on a Point of Attack (POA) defender, it's the same reason Bradley started in the RS before not going to the bubble and the reason why Bradley after getting waived by everyone is still starting for Lakers now. So I think Schroeder was seen as an upgrade of Bradley in Vogels system. But Green was more important. They made up for it with Caruso getting more minutes and then they just let him walk for nothing.. I can only imagine that they thought it was Vogels system with Davis that was the source of their defense but it was guys like Caruso and Green in combination.

Last season both Davis and LeBron suffered bad injuries. LeBron has only just recovered and Davis still hasn't recovered. Schroeder didn't take their money and walked for nothing. I think they knew they were in trouble in the offseason and thought Westbrook would be able to carry the 21-22 RS.. Well he hasn't gelled with Vogels system at all. He doesn't fit the defense since he isn't a POA defender (it's why they still start Bradley). Westbrook hasn't been given the keys to go get wins either. Whole thing is a mess.

I think a lot of it is also LeBron's explicit wish to not play PG and instead play with a high level playmaker. If you remember the suicide squad meme team Magic put together in 2019, he wouldn't stop talking about how he wanted playmakers at every position on the floor to ease the burden on LeBron. Lakers wanted an elite playmaker, unfortunately they did not come to that conclusion when Chris Paul was being moved and banked on Schröder being adequate enough. Schröder never got any kind of synergy with Davis so he was on his way out. Then this offseason they chose Westbrook over a sign and trade for Derozan. They had a coherent idea, they happened to pick the worst option and Westbrook for his part is doing worse than even the skeptics could have imagined him do.

Yeah LeBron wanted another playmaker for sure and you are seeing some of the fruit of that with Russ-LeBron. LeBron is having a great scoring year but Russ has been a poor defensive fit since he isn't a POA and his scoring efficiency has been awful.

Main mistake was letting Caruso and Green go for nothing really. Sad thing about the Caruso move is that it seemed like he was always going to get shafted. Some think it was the Westbrook move that put Lakers in a tough position to move out Caruso but actually Russ at 44m is the same price of 13m Kuz, 13m KCP and 18m Schroder (which he declined). Lakers always planned not to resign Caruso.

The other option could have been Kuzma + Harrell S&T for Derozan or Hield, in that case, you still retain KCP as a defensive wing and maybe keep Caruso if Chicago doesn't come calling. They had a price for AC, Chicago outbid them.

[lamscott]

I've been saying this forever. Pelinka got too cute. Now he knows that putting random pieces together isn't going to work.

[HabsAndDubs]

Because that’s what the Lakers do. After Shaq and Kobe, they signed Karl Malone and Gary Payton, and it didn’t work. After Kobe and Pau, they got Steve Nash and Dwight Howard and it didn’t work. After Lebron + AD, they get Westbrook, and it’s not working.

Lakers culture means getting showtime players, and Westbrook is a showtime guy. Dwight is a showtime guy. melo is showtime.

Without speaking to the motivation to get specifically Westbrook, you can always count on the Lakers to chase stars, especially vet stars who are on the decline.

When Lebron retires, if AD is still a star, you know they’re going to get like a 35 year old Jimmy Butler, or a just about to decline Giannis, or Trae Young or something.

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

The Green+Pick28(Jaden McDaniels) trade for Schroeder was the big move after the championship. It started everything.

The Westbrook trade was essentially Danny Green+McDaniels+KCP+Kuzma+Harrell for Westbrook. What a disaster.

Nah it wasn't. Schroeder wasn't in that trade and Harrell was opting out if not traded.

It was KCP+Kuzma+Pick22 for Westbrook. Green+Caruso being moved for nothing was worse than the Westbrook trade.

The Lakers made the Westbrook trade because they decided to move on from Schroder, and Harrell opted in because it was in his financial interest to do so.

And Caruso wasn't moved anywhere, he left in FA.

[srhcan]

The Lakers won the championship just 15 months ago and only 3 players from that team remains (LeBron, Davis, and THT).

Their identity during the championship year was defense. They completely dismantled that by making dumb trades and being cheap and letting go one of their best defensive player (Caruso).

Usually you add pieces to improve that team, not go full 2k.

that championship had full stamps of Covid-19 playing in a bubble; dont count it as real championship

[HomoSapien]

The Westbrook trade was essentially Danny Green+McDaniels+KCP+Kuzma+Harrell for Westbrook. What a disaster.

Nah it wasn't. Schroeder wasn't in that trade and Harrell was opting out if not traded.

It was KCP+Kuzma+Pick22 for Westbrook. Green+Caruso being moved for nothing was worse than the Westbrook trade.

The Lakers made the Westbrook trade because they decided to move on from Schroder, and Harrell opted in because it was in his financial interest to do so.

And Caruso wasn't moved anywhere, he left in FA.

Not to mention they weren’t interested in his home town discount to stay in LA.

[HomoSapien]

The Westbrook trade was essentially Danny Green+McDaniels+KCP+Kuzma+Harrell for Westbrook. What a disaster.

Nah it wasn't. Schroeder wasn't in that trade and Harrell was opting out if not traded.

It was KCP+Kuzma+Pick22 for Westbrook. Green+Caruso being moved for nothing was worse than the Westbrook trade.

The Lakers made the Westbrook trade because they decided to move on from Schroder, and Harrell opted in because it was in his financial interest to do so.

And Caruso wasn't moved anywhere, he left in FA.

Not to mention they weren’t interested in his home town discount to stay in LA.

I’m guessing LBJ is behind a fair amount of these decisions and he’s clearly always preferred winning through the super team route over traditional team building. In this case, he and Pelinka badly miscalculated the impact of these moves.

[KembaWalker]

LeBron needed more help

[zimpy27]

I think a lot of it is also LeBron's explicit wish to not play PG and instead play with a high level playmaker. If you remember the suicide squad meme team Magic put together in 2019, he wouldn't stop talking about how he wanted playmakers at every position on the floor to ease the burden on LeBron. Lakers wanted an elite playmaker, unfortunately they did not come to that conclusion when Chris Paul was being moved and banked on Schröder being adequate enough. Schröder never got any kind of synergy with Davis so he was on his way out. Then this offseason they chose Westbrook over a sign and trade for Derozan. They had a coherent idea, they happened to pick the worst option and Westbrook for his part is doing worse than even the skeptics could have imagined him do.

Yeah LeBron wanted another playmaker for sure and you are seeing some of the fruit of that with Russ-LeBron. LeBron is having a great scoring year but Russ has been a poor defensive fit since he isn't a POA and his scoring efficiency has been awful.

Main mistake was letting Caruso and Green go for nothing really. Sad thing about the Caruso move is that it seemed like he was always going to get shafted. Some think it was the Westbrook move that put Lakers in a tough position to move out Caruso but actually Russ at 44m is the same price of 13m Kuz, 13m KCP and 18m Schroder (which he declined). Lakers always planned not to resign Caruso.

The other option could have been Kuzma + Harrell S&T for Derozan or Hield, in that case, you still retain KCP as a defensive wing and maybe keep Caruso if Chicago doesn't come calling. They had a price for AC, Chicago outbid them.

Derozan would have been good, Hield would have been awful.
I still get the logic of Westbrook over Hield.

Nunn, Westbrook, THT, LeBron, Davis would have been the plan except THT didn't improve shooting and Nunn hasn't played a game.
Bazmore+Ariza were key defensive wing additions but that was poorly evaluated.
Monk+Howard+Melo have been the best vet additions.

[zimpy27]

The Westbrook trade was essentially Danny Green+McDaniels+KCP+Kuzma+Harrell for Westbrook. What a disaster.

Nah it wasn't. Schroeder wasn't in that trade and Harrell was opting out if not traded.

It was KCP+Kuzma+Pick22 for Westbrook. Green+Caruso being moved for nothing was worse than the Westbrook trade.

The Lakers made the Westbrook trade because they decided to move on from Schroder, and Harrell opted in because it was in his financial interest to do so.

And Caruso wasn't moved anywhere, he left in FA.

Schroeder wanted to test FA and Lakers didn't want to wait. That is fine. Harrell only opted in because he was told he was being traded. Yeah Caruso was gone in FA, that's what I mean for nothing.