Jerami Grant receiving a lot of trade interest- (Jake Fisher)

[DetroitSho]

Grant is a role player at his best. People see that 20ppg a game and fall in love but he's doing that with mediocre efficiency and little to no playmaking. Do people really want a 2nd/3rd option that cant create for others and is a mediocre efficiency scorer? I'd pass I rather get a pick and/or a young guy with some potential.

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This is such a weird take. When did it become either/or?

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[mattao313]

Grant is a role player at his best. People see that 20ppg a game and fall in love but he's doing that with mediocre efficiency and little to no playmaking. Do people really want a 2nd/3rd option that cant create for others and is a mediocre efficiency scorer? I'd pass I rather get a pick and/or a young guy with some potential.

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This is such a weird take. When did it become either/or?

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I don't see what's so weird about it

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[DetroitSho]

Grant is a role player at his best. People see that 20ppg a game and fall in love but he's doing that with mediocre efficiency and little to no playmaking. Do people really want a 2nd/3rd option that cant create for others and is a mediocre efficiency scorer? I'd pass I rather get a pick and/or a young guy with some potential.

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This is such a weird take. When did it become either/or?

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I don't see what's so weird about it

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It's weird that you don't want a guy who everybody recognizes would be a high level number 3 as your number 3.

Weird that you seem to leave out that we're in line to receive another good young guy through the draft with the way things are heading, so the decision doesn't have to be between Grant and a young guy. You can have both.

And mostly weird that you seem to believe you're the only one nuanced enough to be able to look past numbers like 20ppg as an argument for or against a player. You've seen enough pro Grant commentary and literally NOBODY has had a singular argument of "keep him because he scores 20ppg".

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[mattao313]

This is such a weird take. When did it become either/or?

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I don't see what's so weird about it

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It's weird that you don't want a guy who everybody recognizes would be a high level number 3 as your number 3.

Weird that you seem to leave out that we're in line to receive another good young guy through the draft with the way things are heading, so the decision doesn't have to be between Grant and a young guy. You can have both.

And mostly weird that you seem to believe you're the only one nuanced enough to be able to look past numbers like 20ppg as an argument for or against a player. You've seen enough pro Grant commentary and literally NOBODY has had a singular argument of "keep him because he scores 20ppg".

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I don't see him as a high level 3 option I made that clear in my post.

What? You're not making sense, I was talking about trading grant for a pick. So no you can't have grant and the pick and/or young guy he was traded for.

Yes it is, if grant wasn't scoring 20ppg we wouldn't be even having this debate about keeping him.

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[Manocad]

Wow, I didn't realize I'd have to go slow, but since you pretty much got everything I said wrong, ok here it goes. At the beginning of the season up until Grant went out, this team was shooting like crap. Do you not remember the discussions of wanting to send Bey to the bench and even the G League just as recently as 60 days ago? Because that's what we do here, we vilify players and throw them away as soon as the next good looking thing (in this case, Diallo) comes along. But I digress.

I'm not sure where you're getting I said Bey is iso'ing less, I didn't even bring that up. But since we're here, he's iso'ing more. MUCH more. Quiet as kept, his game right now is extremely similar to the Grant type game that everybody has turned on, the only difference is he's such a good shooter those 3 point bombs are outweighing the pathetic iso attempts.

I brought up Durant in Golden State to say that people are going to complain about an iso scorer bogging down the offense no matter who it is. Fact of the matter is I don't care how great the ball movement is and otherworldly the shooting is, you will NEED someone (preferably someONES) to be able to get you an iso score when things get tight.

As for why would I want to integrate Grant back into the new and improved version of the lineup? Because I'm not under some ignorant assumption that Grant can't excel back in this lineup with how things are going. If anything, in order for people to stop complaining about him going iso, he NEEDED Bey to finally start hitting wide open shots like he is now. He NEEDED a people mover like Diallo to sneak up the baseline on the back cut while the defense was paying attention to him, as opposed to no people movement. He NEEDED Cade to figure out how to attack an aggressive defense which has led to more open jumpers now. So now, yes, why tf wouldn't I want to add a guy who can get you 20 on or off the ball, shoot high 30s from 3 and get shots for his teammates too?

Like seriously, what type of monster are y'all trying to turn Grant into? It's almost like we're discussing Josh Smith or something. WTF?

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Exactly. Bey ABSOLUTELY tries to iso more now without Grant on the floor, and while he has definitely improved from last year in that regard, he's still not all that great at it. Plus he's nowhere near the defensive player Grant is yet no one's hollering about Bey. Well, except for me, about his defense.

People here like to connect dots that don't necessarily connect.
- Grant acted as a #1 option, mostly iso scorer = Grant can only be/wants to be a #1 option, mostly iso scorer = Grant refuses to be anything but a #1 option, mostly iso scorer
- The ball moves around more with Grant out = Grant is the sole cause of the ball not moving around more = if Grant comes back the offense will bog down
- Grant refuses to be anything but a #1 option, mostly iso scorer + Grant coming back will bog the offense down = Grant must be traded immediately while trade options are available

This line of thinking completely overlooks the possibility that Grant may WANT to stay with the team and will alter his style of play to best benefit the team and bring success, hopefully a championship in the near future.

[Manocad]

I don't see what's so weird about it

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It's weird that you don't want a guy who everybody recognizes would be a high level number 3 as your number 3.

Weird that you seem to leave out that we're in line to receive another good young guy through the draft with the way things are heading, so the decision doesn't have to be between Grant and a young guy. You can have both.

And mostly weird that you seem to believe you're the only one nuanced enough to be able to look past numbers like 20ppg as an argument for or against a player. You've seen enough pro Grant commentary and literally NOBODY has had a singular argument of "keep him because he scores 20ppg".

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I don't see him as a high level 3 option I made that clear in my post.

What? You're not making sense, I was talking about trading grant for a pick. So no you can't have grant and the pick and/or young guy he was traded for.

Yes it is, if grant wasn't scoring 20ppg we wouldn't be even having this debate about keeping him.

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The young guy through the draft he was talking about was the Pistons' own likely 1-5 pick. Being that the Pistons will already have that option available, they don't have to make a choice between keeping Grant and having no drafted player, or trading Grant because a drafted player is a better option. They can have both--Grant and the drafted player they'll already get regardless of whether Grant is traded or not.

Saying that we wouldn't be having this discussion if Grant wasn't a 20PPG player is circular logic. If he scored 10PPG he wouldn't be the mostly high sought after trade bait thus there wouldn't be a discussion to have. What do you think all the other teams who may want him are in love with? His fashion sense?

[kpt]

Milsap and nets agree to find him a new team. will he go to someone like the bulls and block a potential trade for grant? I am not saying they are the same player or value to the team.

[DetroitSho]

I don't see what's so weird about it

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It's weird that you don't want a guy who everybody recognizes would be a high level number 3 as your number 3.

Weird that you seem to leave out that we're in line to receive another good young guy through the draft with the way things are heading, so the decision doesn't have to be between Grant and a young guy. You can have both.

And mostly weird that you seem to believe you're the only one nuanced enough to be able to look past numbers like 20ppg as an argument for or against a player. You've seen enough pro Grant commentary and literally NOBODY has had a singular argument of "keep him because he scores 20ppg".

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I don't see him as a high level 3 option I made that clear in my post.

What? You're not making sense, I was talking about trading grant for a pick. So no you can't have grant and the pick and/or young guy he was traded for.

Yes it is, if grant wasn't scoring 20ppg we wouldn't be even having this debate about keeping him.

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So even though Grant has already shown he can be exactly that, an important #3 on a WCF team you don't think he can be that. Because......well because.

And I make perfect sense, I tried to offer you the fact that you can have your young player in addition to Grant. But I didn't peg you for a "let's litter the team with 19 year olds and that'll win us a championship" type person, but ok I get. Instead of Grant you want the (AT BEST) 20th best draft prospect, ya know, the ole door #2 instead of the known commodity.

Mano already addressed the 20ppg take so I won't even bother with that nonsense.

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[mattao313]

It's weird that you don't want a guy who everybody recognizes would be a high level number 3 as your number 3.

Weird that you seem to leave out that we're in line to receive another good young guy through the draft with the way things are heading, so the decision doesn't have to be between Grant and a young guy. You can have both.

And mostly weird that you seem to believe you're the only one nuanced enough to be able to look past numbers like 20ppg as an argument for or against a player. You've seen enough pro Grant commentary and literally NOBODY has had a singular argument of "keep him because he scores 20ppg".

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I don't see him as a high level 3 option I made that clear in my post.

What? You're not making sense, I was talking about trading grant for a pick. So no you can't have grant and the pick and/or young guy he was traded for.

Yes it is, if grant wasn't scoring 20ppg we wouldn't be even having this debate about keeping him.

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The young guy through the draft he was talking about was the Pistons' own likely 1-5 pick. Being that the Pistons will already have that option available, they don't have to make a choice between keeping Grant and having no drafted player, or trading Grant because a drafted player is a better option. They can have both--Grant and the drafted player they'll already get regardless of whether Grant is traded or not.

Saying that we wouldn't be having this discussion if Grant wasn't a 20PPG player is circular logic. If he scored 10PPG he wouldn't be the mostly high sought after trade bait thus there wouldn't be a discussion to have. What do you think all the other teams who may want him are in love with? His fashion sense?

Our pick has nothing to do with a pick and/or a young guy we potentially trade for. I don't see the point of bring it up.

All the other good teams see a 6'8 guy who has a good track record of being able to knock down 3s and be able to match up against other big wing players as big wing guys are at a premium. I don't think other good teams see oh he's scoring 20ppg on one of the worst teams in the league he'll do that here to.

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[mattao313]

It's weird that you don't want a guy who everybody recognizes would be a high level number 3 as your number 3.

Weird that you seem to leave out that we're in line to receive another good young guy through the draft with the way things are heading, so the decision doesn't have to be between Grant and a young guy. You can have both.

And mostly weird that you seem to believe you're the only one nuanced enough to be able to look past numbers like 20ppg as an argument for or against a player. You've seen enough pro Grant commentary and literally NOBODY has had a singular argument of "keep him because he scores 20ppg".

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I don't see him as a high level 3 option I made that clear in my post.

What? You're not making sense, I was talking about trading grant for a pick. So no you can't have grant and the pick and/or young guy he was traded for.

Yes it is, if grant wasn't scoring 20ppg we wouldn't be even having this debate about keeping him.

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So even though Grant has already shown he can be exactly that, an important #3 on a WCF team you don't think he can be that. Because......well because.

And I make perfect sense, I tried to offer you the fact that you can have your young player in addition to Grant. But I didn't peg you for a "let's litter the team with 19 year olds and that'll win us a championship" type person, but ok I get. Instead of Grant you want the (AT BEST) 20th best draft prospect, ya know, the ole door #2 instead of the known commodity.

Mano already addressed the 20ppg take so I won't even bother with that nonsense.

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Yes we can potentially upgrade the talent of the team more with a grant trade. We can pick up a nice C prospect in that range that can defend, catch lobs, and rebound something this board all agree on. We potentially get another guy to that can hopefully become a rotation piece as well.

We can pick up some good veterans in FA that can replace grants production+.



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[DetroitSho]

I don't see him as a high level 3 option I made that clear in my post.

What? You're not making sense, I was talking about trading grant for a pick. So no you can't have grant and the pick and/or young guy he was traded for.

Yes it is, if grant wasn't scoring 20ppg we wouldn't be even having this debate about keeping him.

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So even though Grant has already shown he can be exactly that, an important #3 on a WCF team you don't think he can be that. Because......well because.

And I make perfect sense, I tried to offer you the fact that you can have your young player in addition to Grant. But I didn't peg you for a "let's litter the team with 19 year olds and that'll win us a championship" type person, but ok I get. Instead of Grant you want the (AT BEST) 20th best draft prospect, ya know, the ole door #2 instead of the known commodity.

Mano already addressed the 20ppg take so I won't even bother with that nonsense.

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Yes we can potentially upgrade the talent of the team more with a grant trade. We can pick up a nice C prospect in that range that can defend, catch lobs, and rebound something this board all agree on. We potentially get another guy to that can hopefully become a rotation piece as well.

We can pick up some good veterans in FA that can replace grants production+.



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Can you put some actual names to these trade returns you're referring to?

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[mattao313]

So even though Grant has already shown he can be exactly that, an important #3 on a WCF team you don't think he can be that. Because......well because.

And I make perfect sense, I tried to offer you the fact that you can have your young player in addition to Grant. But I didn't peg you for a "let's litter the team with 19 year olds and that'll win us a championship" type person, but ok I get. Instead of Grant you want the (AT BEST) 20th best draft prospect, ya know, the ole door #2 instead of the known commodity.

Mano already addressed the 20ppg take so I won't even bother with that nonsense.

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Yes we can potentially upgrade the talent of the team more with a grant trade. We can pick up a nice C prospect in that range that can defend, catch lobs, and rebound something this board all agree on. We potentially get another guy to that can hopefully become a rotation piece as well.

We can pick up some good veterans in FA that can replace grants production+.



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Can you put some actual names to these trade returns you're referring to?

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You said a pick around 20 so mark Williams, christian koloko, or even Jalen Duren can slip.

In a trade we could mao get deni or gafford. Thats just off the top of my head

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[Manocad]

I don't see him as a high level 3 option I made that clear in my post.

What? You're not making sense, I was talking about trading grant for a pick. So no you can't have grant and the pick and/or young guy he was traded for.

Yes it is, if grant wasn't scoring 20ppg we wouldn't be even having this debate about keeping him.

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The young guy through the draft he was talking about was the Pistons' own likely 1-5 pick. Being that the Pistons will already have that option available, they don't have to make a choice between keeping Grant and having no drafted player, or trading Grant because a drafted player is a better option. They can have both--Grant and the drafted player they'll already get regardless of whether Grant is traded or not.

Saying that we wouldn't be having this discussion if Grant wasn't a 20PPG player is circular logic. If he scored 10PPG he wouldn't be the mostly high sought after trade bait thus there wouldn't be a discussion to have. What do you think all the other teams who may want him are in love with? His fashion sense?

Our pick has nothing to do with a pick and/or a young guy we potentially trade for. I don't see the point of bring it up.

All the other good teams see a 6'8 guy who has a good track record of being able to knock down 3s and be able to match up against other big wing players as big wing guys are at a premium. I don't think other good teams see oh he's scoring 20ppg on one of the worst teams in the league he'll do that here to.

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The part you're missing here is that you're criticizing Pistons fans for the value they place on Grant while not levying the same criticism on other teams who value Grant, and obviously without knowing what anyone is thinking. Since Grant is a 6'8" guy who has a good track record of being able to knock down 3s and be able to match up against other big wing players as big wing and is at a premium in the league, why can't that player wouldn't be a good fit on the Pistons? He would only bog down the offense on the Pistons and not somewhere else?

[A_dub06]

Personally out of all the teams rumoured to be strongly interested in Grant I hope we go with either a package from Chicago or Portland.

From Chicago I’d be keen on a package consisting of Williams, White and a pick.

From Portand Simons, Little and a pick.

Outside of that if Sacto would be willing to part with their 1st round pick unprotected plus Bagley and filler I’d pull the trigger too.

I don’t think this draft will be all that great so unless we can get a top 10 unprotected 1st I’d prefer to get some young interesting prospects. At this stage the Portland package is probably my favourite. Simons would be nice next to Cade and Little is starting to show us something too. Having a nucleus of Simons/Cade/Little/Bey/Holgrem (who I hope we draft) is a pretty exciting young lineup!

As a Blazers Fan with all due respect do you have lost your mind? Never ever are the Blazers gonna trade Simons and Little for Grant lmao

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Yes, he HAS lost his mind. That's HIS offer, not the Pistons' offer, because they wouldn't offer it. Simons is approaching free agency so the Pistons could get him anyway. So Grant for Little and a pick?

Thank you for your analytical response Manacod, I really appreciate you pointing out that it’s my offer and not the pistons, for a second there I thought I spoke on behalf of the team….

You have admitted that you don’t watch any other teams games in a previous thread so I doubt you have ever watched Simons. If you had, you would see he has nice shooting ability, underrated passing, decent on ball defending (eye test) and he is finally starting to show his potential. Simon’s may be a free agent come season end but being in the drivers seat for his free agency and not having to overpay to the point that Portland wouldn’t match, plus Little and a pick would be a solid trade. You don’t get players with upside like theirs for nothing, and any difference in value you see between Simon and Little for Grant is covered by the pick.

I’m interested to know what trade you would suggest considering our direction and path using Grant.

[Manocad]

As a Blazers Fan with all due respect do you have lost your mind? Never ever are the Blazers gonna trade Simons and Little for Grant lmao

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Yes, he HAS lost his mind. That's HIS offer, not the Pistons' offer, because they wouldn't offer it. Simons is approaching free agency so the Pistons could get him anyway. So Grant for Little and a pick?

Thank you for your analytical response Manacod, I really appreciate you pointing out that it’s my offer and not the pistons, for a second there I thought I spoke on behalf of the team….

You have admitted that you don’t watch any other teams games in a previous thread so I doubt you have ever watched Simons. If you had, you would see he has nice shooting ability, underrated passing, decent on ball defending (eye test) and he is finally starting to show his potential. Simon’s may be a free agent come season end but being in the drivers seat for his free agency and not having to overpay to the point that Portland wouldn’t match, plus Little and a pick would be a solid trade. You don’t get players with upside like theirs for nothing, and any difference in value you see between Simon and Little for Grant is covered by the pick.

I’m interested to know what trade you would suggest considering our direction and path using Grant.

I'm not suggesting a trade for Grant because I don't know what other teams would offer, but targeting a point guard who could be lost anyway in free agency, a maybe turns into something forward and mid first round pick isn't it. I don't think it's implausible that keeping Grant may be the best solution.

[DBC10]

Although I've seen Grant as a ball stopper this season, how he works with Cunningham is still a work in process. They had no training camp or preseason to develop any chemistry due to that ankle, followed by a bad shooting start to the season. Top it off with Olynyk going down early and there's been little time for the new lineup to gel.

Picture Grant returning to the lineup a few games before the trade deadline, fitting in to the flow and we win those games. Will heads explode?

Heads won't explode due to the fact that it'll just increase his trade value even more. So I say yes, the time to trade him has come and that can't be ignored

I'd rather not wait to see if Grant can fit with Cade and co (plus whatever contract extension he seeks) and just roll out with our young guys instead. We don't need Grant, he's nice to have but any combination of Bey, Diallo, Lyles can provide a stopgap to whatever production Grant can do. Along with a shiny new draft pick to develop, we're going to be squeezed for rotation minutes even if we trade a couple vets for next season

[Manocad]

Although I've seen Grant as a ball stopper this season, how he works with Cunningham is still a work in process. They had no training camp or preseason to develop any chemistry due to that ankle, followed by a bad shooting start to the season. Top it off with Olynyk going down early and there's been little time for the new lineup to gel.

Picture Grant returning to the lineup a few games before the trade deadline, fitting in to the flow and we win those games. Will heads explode?

Heads won't explode due to the fact that it'll just increase his trade value even more. So I say yes, the time to trade him has come and that can't be ignored

I'd rather not wait to see if Grant can fit with Cade and co (plus whatever contract extension he seeks) and just roll out with our young guys instead. We don't need Grant, he's nice to have but any combination of Bey, Diallo, Lyles can provide a stopgap to whatever production Grant can do. Along with a shiny new draft pick to develop, we're going to be squeezed for rotation minutes even if we trade a couple vets for next season

The key takeaway here IMO is not that it's given that Grant is a bad fit with the team, but since the team is still able to score and win some games with Grant out his trade value is in filling the biggest hole in the starting lineup; the goal should be to get five really good starters. I don't see anyone suggesting that the return for Grant should be a player or players who build up the bench; the suggestions are for getting a young player who's obviously good and projected to be a starter (and a pick). And IMO the biggest need right now for the starting five in regard to a player not currently on the team/locked in for the future is a center. So to me it makes sense to trade Grant for the starting center of the future if you don't think that player is available in the draft.

The idea that Grant should be traded because he will want a role or minutes that detract from other players makes no sense. He doesn't play any more minutes than any other starter so the minutes he'd expect to play are the same that any starting player would expect to play, including the player who replaces him.

[NYPiston]

You said a pick around 20 so mark Williams, christian koloko, or even Jalen Duren can slip.

In a trade we could mao get deni or gafford. Thats just off the top of my head

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You don't do that trade then if all you're getting is a late 1st+ maybe a modest upside guy.
With the way the market is shaping up, I think the Pistons could land a higher upside young player plus maybe a pick for Grant. I'm all for trading him but not just for the sake of trading him, it needs to be for real value.

[mattao313]

You said a pick around 20 so mark Williams, christian koloko, or even Jalen Duren can slip.

In a trade we could mao get deni or gafford. Thats just off the top of my head

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You don't do that trade then if all you're getting is a late 1st+ maybe a modest upside guy.
With the way the market is shaping up, I think the Pistons could land a higher upside young player plus maybe a pick for Grant. I'm all for trading him but not just for the sake of trading him, it needs to be for real value.

Im fine with a teens pick and a decent young prospect. I don't see Grant having lotto pick value or some established young guy with potential.

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[Kalamazoo317]

If we can get a very good return (like Patrick Williams or Myles Turner) for Grant, it's worth doing, IMO. I think Bey fits more naturally at PF on offense and Grant was a ball stopper when he was in the lineup. Maybe/hopefully he can adapt his offensive game to be a better fit and Bey can figure out a way to still be effective at SF. I don't hate the idea of keeping Grant and for sure would rather do so than trade him just to trade him without a great return.