2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[Dutchball97]

Joel more than likely will keep up this production, and as long as he doesn’t miss anymore games he will win the MVP. They are 23-10 when he plays which is the number 1 win % in the east. His team is 2.5 out of 1st and all he needs to do is get his team in the top 3 which he more than likely will do.

I hope they will give it to him regardless because i got tired with all the whining and the endless threads about how he's so much better than Jokic, Giannis, Hakeem, Jordan, LeBron, Gandhi, George Washington and Michelangelo.

Do you really think the Sixers fans would shut up for a while about Embiid if he won MVP? If anything they'll probably make even more threads because they'll finally have an actual argument instead of only hypothetical scenarios that might or might not happen.

[eyeatoma]

Joel more than likely will keep up this production, and as long as he doesn’t miss anymore games he will win the MVP. They are 23-10 when he plays which is the number 1 win % in the east. His team is 2.5 out of 1st and all he needs to do is get his team in the top 3 which he more than likely will do.

I hope they will give it to him regardless because i got tired with all the whining and the endless threads about how he's so much better than Jokic, Giannis, Hakeem, Jordan, LeBron, Gandhi, George Washington and Michelangelo.

Do you really think the Sixers fans would shut up for a while about Embiid if he won MVP? If anything they'll probably make even more threads because they'll finally have an actual argument instead of only hypothetical scenarios that might or might not happen.

You mean like Jokic fans have done? They have been insufferable since he won the MVP, and doubled down on on all their takes.

[Dutchball97]

I hope they will give it to him regardless because i got tired with all the whining and the endless threads about how he's so much better than Jokic, Giannis, Hakeem, Jordan, LeBron, Gandhi, George Washington and Michelangelo.

Do you really think the Sixers fans would shut up for a while about Embiid if he won MVP? If anything they'll probably make even more threads because they'll finally have an actual argument instead of only hypothetical scenarios that might or might not happen.

You mean like Jokic fans have done? They have been insufferable since he won the MVP, and doubled down on on all their takes.

Be better than them then if you think Jokic fans are so insufferable. At this point it is just two sides screaming at each other and annoying everyone else.

[eyeatoma]

Do you really think the Sixers fans would shut up for a while about Embiid if he won MVP? If anything they'll probably make even more threads because they'll finally have an actual argument instead of only hypothetical scenarios that might or might not happen.

You mean like Jokic fans have done? They have been insufferable since he won the MVP, and doubled down on on all their takes.

Be better than them then if you think Jokic fans are so insufferable. At this point it is just two sides screaming at each other and annoying everyone else.

Yeah fair enough, I just don't think it's for us to call each other out to calm down lol. As you said both sides have been ridiculous.

[Dutchball97]

You mean like Jokic fans have done? They have been insufferable since he won the MVP, and doubled down on on all their takes.

Be better than them then if you think Jokic fans are so insufferable. At this point it is just two sides screaming at each other and annoying everyone else.

Yeah fair enough, I just don't think it's for us to call each other out to calm down lol. As you said both sides have been ridiculous.

Hussein especially on the Sixers side has been baiting and trolling the entire time. If you look at his last posts here or any of his threads it is always claims of Embiid being better than Jokic, Embiid deserving more awards than Jokic etc and he doesn't even back it up. He says it only to incite arguments and I'm honestly surprised he hasn't been banned yet.

Now I know there have been Jokic fans who have also been making some claims about Embiid being much worse or Embiid never being fully healthy that serve no purpose other than to agitate Embiid/76er fans. It really is a shame though because both Embiid and Jokic have been amazing and all we're doing on the forum right now is meaningless arguments that go nowhere about who is better. People have made up their minds whether they rely more on advanced stats, raw counting stats, on-off, team success or whatever and no use getting mad about others looking at these things another way. At the end of the day basketball is just a game and we're all just people trying to enjoy it.

[eyeatoma]

Be better than them then if you think Jokic fans are so insufferable. At this point it is just two sides screaming at each other and annoying everyone else.

Yeah fair enough, I just don't think it's for us to call each other out to calm down lol. As you said both sides have been ridiculous.

Hussein especially on the Sixers side has been baiting and trolling the entire time. If you look at his last posts here or any of his threads it is always claims of Embiid being better than Jokic, Embiid deserving more awards than Jokic etc and he doesn't even back it up. He says it only to incite arguments and I'm honestly surprised he hasn't been banned yet.

Now I know there have been Jokic fans who have also been making some claims about Embiid being much worse or Embiid never being fully healthy that serve no purpose other than to agitate Embiid/76er fans. It really is a shame though because both Embiid and Jokic have been amazing and all we're doing on the forum right now is meaningless arguments that go nowhere about who is better. People have made up their minds whether they rely more on advanced stats, raw counting stats, on-off, team success or whatever and no use getting mad about others looking at these things another way. At the end of the day basketball is just a game and we're all just people trying to enjoy it.

Well said.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Curry is basically out of it now.

Warriors look awful and his stats are pedestrian.

None of the top 3 Eastern teams have guys with statistical resumes to win.

Same in the West, although Morant is making a late case.

The safest bet is to assume the Bucks or Sixers get a top seed in which case Embiid/Giannis would win.

I still don't think Jokic is in the mix till the Nuggets get a top seed. Which seems unlikely.

[Hussien Fatal]

Jokic shouldn’t be in the conversation, it’s between the two best two way players in the league Giannis and Embiid.

[Cubbies2120]

Jokic shouldn’t be in the conversation, it’s between the two best two way players in the league Giannis and Embiid.

Well we know Jokic will never be homeless even if he goes broke, cause he lives rent free in your head.

I know you were mad af watching Jokic do what he did on national television, with one of the greatest cross-court assists we'll ever see.

Embiid's night was the equivalent to the Warriors record-breaking 73rd win - It was incredible, but overshadowed by another, even more incredible event (Kobe's final game where he dropped 60).

Also rather unfortunate that Jokic isn't a great 2 way player...

Wait a sec...

1st among Centers in stl
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense/?sort=STL&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C

2nd in Deflections
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle/?sort=DEFLECTIONS&dir=1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C

3rd in Box Outs
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/box-outs/?sort=BOX_OUTS&dir=1

4th in Contested shots
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle/?sort=CONTESTED_SHOTS&dir=1

Jokic leads the NBA in contested rebounds per game, Embiid is 14th, or almost two full rebounds a game less.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/rebounding/?sort=REB_CONTEST&dir=1

Nikola Jokic Advanced Stats categories:

Defensive Win Shares / 48 minutes: #1 in the entire league
Defensive Box +-: Tied for #1 in the entire league with Draymond Green
Defensive Rating: #5, behind perennial DPOY candidates like Gobert/Green

In all of those he's well above Embiid.

So, stop the cap fam.

[Cubbies2120]

I still don't think Jokic is in the mix till the Nuggets get a top seed. Which seems unlikely.

Nuggets have the easiest schedule in the NBA remaining. If they were able to go 22-16 (58%) with Jokic playing while having one of the hardest schedules in the NBA so far, then I'd imagine they should be able to win at a 65-70% clip with an easy schedule and new roster additions.

[Infinite Llamas]

Curry is basically out of it now.

Warriors look awful and his stats are pedestrian.

None of the top 3 Eastern teams have guys with statistical resumes to win.

Same in the West, although Morant is making a late case.

The safest bet is to assume the Bucks or Sixers get a top seed in which case Embiid/Giannis would win.

I still don't think Jokic is in the mix till the Nuggets get a top seed. Which seems unlikely.

With some teams playing more games than others, we need to be looking at losses more than wins right now. Denver has 20, Milwaukee has 19, Philadelphia has 18. All three of these teams have similar records right now so it’s stupid to penalize the Nuggets at this point.

[jokeboy86]

Jokic has really thrown a wrench into the MVP discussion similar to Mike Trout in baseball. Trout's team is hardly ever at the top of the standings but statistically he's impossible to ignore. Now obviously an NBA player is much more impactful on a team's success than baseball but the precedent has been established for the NBA MVP for so many years now.

I will say if Jokic were American or playing in a bigger market I think the talking heads would be going much harder to bat for Jokic to win MVP than they have these past two years. No question. If the Nuggets don't move up or drop in the standings there's no excuse for why Jokic shouldn't at least be a top 3 finalist with where the media had Curry at last year with the Warriors being 9th/play-in team.

[KGtabake]

Jokic has really thrown a wrench into the MVP discussion similar to Mike Trout in baseball. Trout's team is hardly ever at the top of the standings but statistically he's impossible to ignore. Now obviously an NBA player is much more impactful on a team's success than baseball but the precedent has been established for the NBA MVP for so many years now.

I will say if Jokic were American or playing in a bigger market I think the talking heads would be going much harder to bat for Jokic to win MVP than they have these past two years. No question. If the Nuggets don't move up or drop in the standings there's no excuse for why Jokic shouldn't at least be a top 3 finalist with where the media had Curry at last year with the Warriors being 9th/play-in team.

We had the exact same convo about Giannis 2-3 years ago. Same things. Milwaukee is even smaller market than Denver.
Jokic will do it just like Giannis did. They are very similar in mindset too. They don't care about big markets, they don't use social media all the time (Jokic doesn't even have SM), they don't watch the talking heads etc.
No worries, Jokic has arrived for good.

[Woodsanity]

Even though I think Jokic having the best individual season I can't have him as MVP since the Nuggets record is not good enough currently.

1. Giannis
2. Embiid
3. Jokic

The rest are irrelevant since they aren't even close in my eyes.

Giannis should honestly be easily in the lead currently but I think there is some media bias against him. His team has the best record of the three, he has better stats than Embiid and he has played more games.

Embiid needs to stay healthy to have a chance and Jokic needs to improve his team's record but that is unlikely since who knows when MPJ and Murray return and if they do how well they can play.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Curry is basically out of it now.

Warriors look awful and his stats are pedestrian.

None of the top 3 Eastern teams have guys with statistical resumes to win.

Same in the West, although Morant is making a late case.

The safest bet is to assume the Bucks or Sixers get a top seed in which case Embiid/Giannis would win.

I still don't think Jokic is in the mix till the Nuggets get a top seed. Which seems unlikely.

Is it ever safe to assume Embiid will be healthy the second half of the season?

No reason to have Embiid, Giannis, or Jokic in your top 3. All have the capability of winning it based on stats and all 3 might have supporting casts help in the next 2 months (Simmons trade return, Jrue coming back, Murray coming back).

Curry/lebron/morant are all dark horses but still within in the realm of possibilities if things get wild the last 2 months. There is no run away candidate this year where they would have to shoot someone to not win it at this point.

[jokeboy86]

Jokic has really thrown a wrench into the MVP discussion similar to Mike Trout in baseball. Trout's team is hardly ever at the top of the standings but statistically he's impossible to ignore. Now obviously an NBA player is much more impactful on a team's success than baseball but the precedent has been established for the NBA MVP for so many years now.

I will say if Jokic were American or playing in a bigger market I think the talking heads would be going much harder to bat for Jokic to win MVP than they have these past two years. No question. If the Nuggets don't move up or drop in the standings there's no excuse for why Jokic shouldn't at least be a top 3 finalist with where the media had Curry at last year with the Warriors being 9th/play-in team.

We had the exact same convo about Giannis 2-3 years ago. Same things. Milwaukee is even smaller market than Denver.
Jokic will do it just like Giannis did. They are very similar in mindset too. They don't care about big markets, they don't use social media all the time (Jokic doesn't even have SM), they don't watch the talking heads etc.
No worries, Jokic has arrived for good.

The difference is Giannis had the top seed both years and similar to this year if he gets the top seed it makes it very hard for them to ignore a guy putting up stats on a top team in a conference. With Jokic they don't have to truly acknowledge him as a candidate because they'll just cite Denver's seeding. I'm not even sure if by some way the Nuggets end up 3rd or 4th that they would give it to Jokic. There's a lot of hesitancy from the media(especially TV) to give guys like Jokic or Giannis multiple MVPs not only cause because then they look foolish when they don't list them as arguably the league's top players but they also think of players who don't have multiple MVPs who they may personally feel are better. It was almost like pulling teeth for them to give Giannis the 2nd one over Lebron.

If Jokic were to win a 2nd MVP he would have more than Kobe, Shaq, KG, Dirk, Hakeem, Robinson, Barkley, Robertson, etc.
If Giannis were to win a 3rd this year he would have more than Duncan, Malone, Curry and as many as Bird and Magic. And he also would have won 3 MVPs by age 27. Only Kareem and Lebron have done that. Again only Kareem and Lebron. A lot of media and fans couldn't deal with that.

[Sharkboy242]

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-jan-21-2022-edition

Spoilers: Jokic is first.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-jan-21-2022-edition

Spoilers: Jokic is first.

I think 5 different players have been on top this year. I think part of it recency bias and marketing efforts in who is on top any given week. I think it is a coin-flip between Jokic or Giannis so don't mean to disparage Jokic at all or say he doesn't deserve it.

The next 10 days will be big for Giannis. Bulls tonight and Nuggets a week from Sunday. Giannis has looked great in matchups so far against Curry, Durant, Ja, Celtics (Nationally televised big game) but really crappy against mediocre teams. Need some wins and needs the head-to-head tie-breaker against Jokic.

[Mickey8]

Even though I think Jokic having the best individual season I can't have him as MVP since the Nuggets record is not good enough currently.

1. Giannis
2. Embiid
3. Jokic

The rest are irrelevant since they aren't even close in my eyes.

Giannis should honestly be easily in the lead currently but I think there is some media bias against him. His team has the best record of the three, he has better stats than Embiid and he has played more games.

Embiid needs to stay healthy to have a chance and Jokic needs to improve his team's record but that is unlikely since who knows when MPJ and Murray return and if they do how well they can play.

Embiid should be ranked number 1 at the moment , but Jokic and Giannis are not that far away from him.

[Woodsanity]

Even though I think Jokic having the best individual season I can't have him as MVP since the Nuggets record is not good enough currently.

1. Giannis
2. Embiid
3. Jokic

The rest are irrelevant since they aren't even close in my eyes.

Giannis should honestly be easily in the lead currently but I think there is some media bias against him. His team has the best record of the three, he has better stats than Embiid and he has played more games.

Embiid needs to stay healthy to have a chance and Jokic needs to improve his team's record but that is unlikely since who knows when MPJ and Murray return and if they do how well they can play.

Embiid should be ranked number 1 at the moment , but Jokic and Giannis are not that far away from him.

I don't see any pro Embiid argument currently. He has worse stats than Giannis, worse record and played fewer games.