[Lewenberg] Sources say Raptors intend to be buyers this deadline

[Dalek]

I think Toronto will tweak rather than take on big salary. They have been typically wanting players who can fit their system that aren't too old and don't have bad contracts. To me there is an obvious need for a back-up PG and another to add some shooting.

The players on very reasonable contracts would be OKC's Kenrich Williams and Ty Jerome. OKC loves firsts and if we give a top 15 protected 2022 FRP plus Flynn and Svi they would bite. Williams and Jerome to me have aged out of the Thunder. They impact winning on a team that just wants to develop talent. OKC has SGA, Maledon and Mann that need minutes over Jerome. Williams is 27 and they have Wiggins emerging.

Williams is a very high level defender and can hit threes - he could step in and help a playoff team. He can take those Yuta/Champagnie minutes and be more successful.

Jerome is a guy I have been a fan of since college. He defends well, and is just a steady hand to run point. Career 36% three point shooter despite a down year this year. In the 3 games he started he averages 16 and 4 one of which he dropped 24 on his old team Phoenix.

Both players are signed for an additional year at only $2m, and Toronto would retain Jerome's RFA status in 2023. These guys maybe don't knocks anyone socks off, but they are high level role players who defend and compete and would fit in the short and long-term.

[JB7]

But if alignment in age is your argument why not try and trade Barnes as well for someone who is similar to Fred and Pascal?

I think Poeltl is a better fit overall than Precious. Adds more size at C (rim protection), plus he is better at rolling to the rim on offence to draw in the defense of the opponent, and his age is not a deterrent, because the core (FVV, PS, OG) are all close to that age. I think Poeltl's age is more of a deterrent for SAS, because they appear to be going into full rebuild. By the time they are competitive again, he will be well into his 30's. And he is not a player you build around. More of a great complement to a strong core.

I would never trade Barnes, unless it was a deal that could not be refused (another better young star player). The hope is Barnes can develop quickly to being the clutch scorer for the team at the end of games. But even if that takes 2-3 years, the rest of the core is still young enough to still be in their primes for another run at the championship.

The reason the NBA has no clear dominant team is age and injuries are catching up with all of the current superstars. The Raptors could be looking at another competitive window in a couple of years as Lebron, Durant, Curry/Draymond, CP3 age out.

I don't really understand the purpose behind it. Poeltl is better than Precious right now, so I would understand the move if you want to compete now. But then we might as well and trade Barnes to go all in and compete in a 3-4 year window. I wouldn't keep 1 longterm project and trade the other or vice versa, there needs to be a clear direction.

Poeltl is also a 2023 expiring so you would have a clean slate there with Trent and FVV also expiring.

Poeltl is better now, and probably has a window of 5+ years, which aligns with FVV, PS and OG. I don't think Barnes will take 3-4 years to fully develop. He is already so far ahead of the curve in Year 1. Imagine what he could be in Year 3. And that is only one piece the team is waiting on rather than 2 (if Precious is included). Being the anchor of the D, I would think it also would take Precious longer to develop into that role. Right now he gets by on pure athleticism. But it is a much bigger step (in terms of BBIQ) to become that type of impact C, where the team could compete for championships.

When Poeltl's contract expires, I think FVV and him are locks to get new deals. Question is about whether GTJ gets too expensive to be worth the big deal, or if he proves to be worth it, does Pascal need to be moved. Ideally all the contracts can fit under the lux tax, but if they can't, it depends on the competitive level of the team. If they are championship material, then I see MLSE spending the money to keep everyone. If they aren't, then probably either GTJ or PS gets moved.

[Spida888]

Hmmm, I guess FO will do their due diligence to see what they can get using our scrap pile of Dragic/Bench/SRPs.

Realistically I don't think there will be a big move involving any of our starters or FRPs. Masai/Bobby are generally pretty patient.

This will likely be an evaluation year to see which players will be part of our core in the next few years.

One thing for certain is we will not do anything that puts us into the tax.

[RalphWiggum]

Without moving FVV, Pascal or OG how much can we really get back?

I actually have a weird feeling that OG might be on the move which doesn't upset me near as much as I thought it would.

I don't think he ever becomes much better than he is right now. If other teams think he can jump another level or two maybe it's in our best long term interests to move him?

[dgr81]

I hope it's for Simmons

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Without moving FVV, Pascal or OG how much can we really get back?

I actually have a weird feeling that OG might be on the move which doesn't upset me near as much as I thought it would.

I don't think he ever becomes much better than he is right now. If other teams think he can jump another level or two maybe it's in our best long term interests to move him?

would you move Ben Simmons for OG + Dragic

and if that trade happened, lets hypothesize that Ben Simmons is open to it (take a positive spin on this matter - no negative ones because we know what media is saying about Ben Simmons)

--> how would that trade affect this team? Ben Simmons plays the point guard and FVV plays the SG position?

--> He's not going to take away shots from FVV and Siakam - he's a pass first guy. more shots to Barnes and GTJ as well. defends at the same level as OG and doesn't move awkwardly and can handle the ball - Ben Simmons can post up better than OG. but we lose 3 point shooting for sure.

--> so we will still need to find 1-2 shooters as well unless Yuta and Svi have a shooting renaissance in the second half

[Morris_Shatford]

With Holmes potentially available my interest level in the Yaks and Bagley's of the world is in freefall.

How much better is Holmes than Birch? Same size, same skillset.

Although tbf, Holmes might be able to stay on the court longer than Khem "Sorry coach, I have an ouchie" Birch.

Holmes is 6' 10" 235lbs and has played around 30MPG since he arrived in Sac in 2019.
His work ethic and energy on the floor is light-years ahead of Birch.

He isn't going to hit threes, but he is a finished product on an insanely reasonable deal for the next 3.5 seasons.

[Kingsway_fan]

Imo Birch is in same category as non playing bench players... he sucks... team is focused on precious and developing him...

[TorontoRapsFan]

Raptors are probably eyeing players like Hield that have a multi year (not expiring next year) contract that's around the 20 mil range. It's pretty much the only way they can use their expiring contracts and not give up any first rounders while getting a serviceable player back. I really don't see them giving up a frp so options are limited.

[Jackson2015]

I think they will add Vets. Thad Young or Milsap as bigs. And maybe a return of corey joseph for some vet leadership/ back up. I'm expecting nothing exciting.

[ATLTimekeeper]

With Holmes potentially available my interest level in the Yaks and Bagley's of the world is in freefall.

How much better is Holmes than Birch? Same size, same skillset.

Although tbf, Holmes might be able to stay on the court longer than Khem "Sorry coach, I have an ouchie" Birch.

Holmes is 6' 10" 235lbs and has played around 30MPG since he arrived in Sac in 2019.
His work ethic and energy on the floor is light-years ahead of Birch.

He isn't going to hit threes, but he is a finished product on an insanely reasonable deal for the next 3.5 seasons.

I thought Birch destroyed him the last time they played. His work ethic is light years ahead of Birch? Where's this coming from?

[durka]

With Holmes potentially available my interest level in the Yaks and Bagley's of the world is in freefall.

How much better is Holmes than Birch? Same size, same skillset.

Although tbf, Holmes might be able to stay on the court longer than Khem "Sorry coach, I have an ouchie" Birch.

Holmes is 6' 10" 235lbs and has played around 30MPG since he arrived in Sac in 2019.
His work ethic and energy on the floor is light-years ahead of Birch.

He isn't going to hit threes, but he is a finished product on an insanely reasonable deal for the next 3.5 seasons.

I'd say in an ideal world Birch is the 3rd C on a good team, can pass as the backup on a decent team. Combined with his trouble staying on the court his value is minimal.

Holmes is a good player who's probably a league average starter and an elite back. I'd probably put him at the level Ibaka was on when he was here. Any team in the league would want him.

[mulamutti]

Speaking for myself...i remember gow amazibg the chemistry was between poetl and siakam. Wicked big to big actions. So imo there's potential for both him and siakam to make each other better than they are currently perceived.

The problem with getting him: we have the worst bench in the league and Center happens to ve the only position we have depth at. If we DO get poetl (i doubt there's any substance to it)....one would think we HAVE trade either precious or birch for a backup guard player. Doesn't make sense to have 3 centers and literally 0 bench guys capable of playing in the backcourt.

I think a deal for Poeltl makes a lot of sense for the Raps. Addresses a need for a starting C that has probably been the most glaring need in their starting line-up. It also allows the remaining core players to settle into more appropriate roles.

I think a deal of Achiuwa and Boucher (plus maybe a 2 round draft pick) for Poeltl makes sense for both sides. Poeltl doesn't move the needle enough for SAS to invest in him, especially since he will be 28 at the start of his new deal (SAS is finally committing to the rebuild). But his age fits perfectly with where the Raps are at with their core.

I agree with the two of you about Jakob. A young-ish starting center who plays def and has proven on and off the court chemistry with Siakam is a great idea. Makes so much sense to me.

I understand the frustration with the "obsession" with a guy like him who might not "move the needle" too, but you don't always get to move at the speed you want to. Finding more of a long term fit than Boucher while keeping our star players happy is a great first step. Trading for him would still leave us in need of a lot elsewhere, so I wouldn't "give up the farm" to get him. We still 100% would need to build up our guard play/shooting in the short and long term, but I'm not overpaying for options like Lavert or Clarkson yet.

A consistent strategy of "Moving the needle" through super-trades and super-acquisitions is only an option for 4 teams: Lakers/Miami/Warriors/NYC(bkn). Literally every other team builds incrementally and hopes for either a random hail mary trade (raps, celts) or a rare one-off year (e.g.pistons, mavs), or win by a genuine slow building strategy (e.g. milwaukee, spurs).

Any trade that "moves the needle" for the raptors, only gets us in the 5-7 range in the eastern conference, and maybe 1 round in the playoffs. e.g. even if we somehow got a bradley beal type, we are not top 2 or 3 in the east and not a championship contender. We already have 2 borderline all stars, one high likelihood all star, and all-defense type player (OG). So adding with smaller trades to land a bunch of poeltls is the only way to move forwards.

Recent raptor fans are spoiled and will need to adjust to this new reality. Seasoned day one type raptors fans (like me) settle right back in to the building reasonably mentality. I am super stoked that we have a solid front office and organization, that the moves are at least meaningful and logical. As opposed to the terribly managed pre-masai eras.

[Johnny Bball]

I still don't believe this is a playoff team so as long as they don't give up a FRP then I'm cool.

Why? It’s not like it will be unprotected and not this year.

[alpngso]

the only asset Raps probably part with is Boucher, Birch, 22 1st and future picks.

may deal Siakam if good offer comes but looks like team is full on make the playoffs or the play in mode based on Nurse running FVV Siakam 44 min a night

[Psubs]

the only asset Raps probably part with is Boucher, Birch, 22 1st and future picks.

may deal Siakam if good offer comes but looks like team is full on make the playoffs or the play in mode based on Nurse running FVV Siakam 44 min a night

Dragic's expiring contract would really help out Atlanta, who is projected to have a payroll of $145 million plus their 1st round picks.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

the only asset Raps probably part with is Boucher, Birch, 22 1st and future picks.

may deal Siakam if good offer comes but looks like team is full on make the playoffs or the play in mode based on Nurse running FVV Siakam 44 min a night

Dragic's expiring contract would really help out Atlanta, who is projected to have a payroll of $145 million plus their 1st round picks.

i would trade something along the lines of Dragic + Birch (or Boucher, if they want expiring) for Bogdanovic + De'Andre Hunter

[Prestige]

The team as currently constructed reminds me of the Rudy Gay Raptors. Top heavy with some good pieces, but less than the sum of its parts. Getting rid of Gay unlocked something in the rest of the team, and it will likely have to occur again.

[NotMyKawhi]

That 2027 first is clearly the most valuable trade asset that the Lakers currently possess. The Lakers have tried, with no luck yet, to package that pick with Talen Horton-Tucker and Kendrick Nunn in an attempt to acquire Jerami Grant from Detroit.


i wonder if they'd do Tucker, nunn and the 2027 1st for trent?

[HomieOmey]

I still don't believe this is a playoff team so as long as they don't give up a FRP then I'm cool.

Why? It’s not like it will be unprotected and not this year.

It's probably because I see Flynn as an almost wasted asset (while admitting it's still pretty early) AND because I assume we won't re-sign Boucher (which isn't necessarily true) that I'd actually be HAPPY to trade our (protected) pick this year to essentially give us one player we like more than those two guys while easing the burden on FVV (by improving our backcourt) or OG/Siakam (by adding a starting center). I feel like this could save us a lot of long term money while improving our young core. Like you said, it's not like we're going to be giving up a top 10 pick.