2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5)

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Which three rookies impress you the most? (vote for up to 3)

Cade Cunningham
90
15%
Jalen Green
5
1%
Evan Mobley
174
29%
Scottie Barnes
111
18%
Josh Giddey
56
9%
Franz Wagner
77
13%
Alperen Sengun
20
3%
Omer Yurtseven
12
2%
Herbert Jones
10
2%
Other (Duarte, Kuminga, Mitchell, Dosunmu, etc.)
49
8%
 
Total votes: 604

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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#61 » by Statlanta » Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:46 am

John Murdoch wrote:1st time i watched Suggs last night vs my Lakers...agreesive player but low IQ...nearly every attempt he would go for a highlight dunk that resulted in a charge. Maybe if he settles down he can have a nice career but i personally would take Talen over him


Talen is playing with LeBron and the Lakers development team. Imagine Suggs learning from Point LeBron and Rondo when he was a Laker.

Give Talen this awful roster and his impact stats would likely drop due to how many below average players are on this roster.
The Greatest of All Time debate in basketball is essentially who has the greatest basketball resume of the player who has the best highlights instead of who is the best player
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#62 » by John Murdoch » Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:42 am

Statlanta wrote:
John Murdoch wrote:1st time i watched Suggs last night vs my Lakers...agreesive player but low IQ...nearly every attempt he would go for a highlight dunk that resulted in a charge. Maybe if he settles down he can have a nice career but i personally would take Talen over him


Talen is playing with LeBron and the Lakers development team. Imagine Suggs learning from Point LeBron and Rondo when he was a Laker.

Give Talen this awful roster and his impact stats would likely drop due to how many below average players are on this roster.


I think the oppsite is more likely. Every young asset that has left the LBJ lakers has flourished away from him given higher usage , less pressure atmospheres...Ingram...Ball....Randle...DLo
Magic#1 wrote:We have won two playoff games in two years. If we decide to keep this team for the next two years, maybe it will feel like we won a series.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#63 » by orlando_joe » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:32 am

John Murdoch wrote:
Statlanta wrote:
John Murdoch wrote:1st time i watched Suggs last night vs my Lakers...agreesive player but low IQ...nearly every attempt he would go for a highlight dunk that resulted in a charge. Maybe if he settles down he can have a nice career but i personally would take Talen over him


Talen is playing with LeBron and the Lakers development team. Imagine Suggs learning from Point LeBron and Rondo when he was a Laker.

Give Talen this awful roster and his impact stats would likely drop due to how many below average players are on this roster.


I think the oppsite is more likely. Every young asset that has left the LBJ lakers has flourished away from him given higher usage , less pressure atmospheres...Ingram...Ball....Randle...DLo

magic are good with suggs ...no worries lakers more like stuck with talen...lol
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#64 » by NRSV » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:34 am

Mobley often has like like 8-10 pts in first quarter, then ends with like 15. Curious why.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#65 » by JujitsuFlip » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:40 am

15 points and 17 rebounds for Mobley
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#66 » by whitehops » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:40 am

since ricky rubio has been out the last 12 games, the cavs have a DRTG of 113.8, which would be a bottom-5 defense over the course of the season.

i wonder what that does to mobley's ROY campaign because the current narrative is that he is the reason for their top 3 defense.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#67 » by Blacksheep25 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:22 am

whitehops wrote:since ricky rubio has been out the last 12 games, the cavs have a DRTG of 113.8, which would be a bottom-5 defense over the course of the season.

i wonder what that does to mobley's ROY campaign because the current narrative is that he is the reason for their top 3 defense.


Lauri getting hurt tonight and likely out for a month or more pretty much ascertains he wins ROTY now. He was going to anyway, but now it’s a no brainer.

You see the immediate effect on his rebound numbers with 17 tonight. Likely those minutes are spread among guys who play better defense, but take fewer shots. So their defense will look better and his numbers will go up as he is like one of these rookies playing for a bad team like Cade.

He’s shared rebounds with two other 7 footers all year. Lauri takes a decent amount of shots that his replacement likely won’t. More likely his minutes will go to guys who are more traditional SF size, He’ll play a little more center most likely and his minutes will be staggered a little more with Allen, so he’l he contesting less shots on perimeter I’d guess and he scores and rebounds more when he’s at center. Obviously Lauri is a very strange SF, and it sometimes works out, and other times, doesn’t, They’ll have worse spacing, but that will bother other players more than Mobley who doesn’t shoot a lot from behind the arc. He’ll score a few more points a game and grab more rebounds now. He might not actually be more effective, but his counting stats will look like he is.

He’s still the best defensive rookie by a million miles. He will be scoring as much as any of them and rebounding more. It’s his award barring a long injury.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#68 » by basketballRob » Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:45 am

Blacksheep25 wrote:
whitehops wrote:since ricky rubio has been out the last 12 games, the cavs have a DRTG of 113.8, which would be a bottom-5 defense over the course of the season.

i wonder what that does to mobley's ROY campaign because the current narrative is that he is the reason for their top 3 defense.


Lauri getting hurt tonight and likely out for a month or more pretty much ascertains he wins ROTY now. He was going to anyway, but now it’s a no brainer.

You see the immediate effect on his rebound numbers with 17 tonight. Likely those minutes are spread among guys who play better defense, but take fewer shots. So their defense will look better and his numbers will go up as he is like one of these rookies playing for a bad team like Cade.

He’s shared rebounds with two other 7 footers all year. Lauri takes a decent amount of shots that his replacement likely won’t. More likely his minutes will go to guys who are more traditional SF size, He’ll play a little more center most likely and his minutes will be staggered a little more with Allen, so he’l he contesting less shots on perimeter I’d guess and he scores and rebounds more when he’s at center. Obviously Lauri is a very strange SF, and it sometimes works out, and other times, doesn’t, They’ll have worse spacing, but that will bother other players more than Mobley who doesn’t shoot a lot from behind the arc. He’ll score a few more points a game and grab more rebounds now. He might not actually be more effective, but his counting stats will look like he is.

He’s still the best defensive rookie by a million miles. He will be scoring as much as any of them and rebounding more. It’s his award barring a long injury.
I missed the game. Did OKC start the really small lineup again? They usually don't play anyone over like 6'7".

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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#69 » by zaymon » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:10 am

John Murdoch wrote:1st time i watched Suggs last night vs my Lakers...agreesive player but low IQ...nearly every attempt he would go for a highlight dunk that resulted in a charge. Maybe if he settles down he can have a nice career but i personally would take Talen over him


Suggs had 2 charges last game. One was flop by Reeves. Nearly every attempt = one attempt ?
Since tracking data is available (13/14 season), Jalen Suggs is second best perimeter defender for a rookie starter by Raptor.
Other player is Luguentz Dort, but he played less minutes, started less games and had half of Suggs usage.
So you prefer THT who is not good at anything over propably best perimeter defender since at least 2013 ?
Its like me saying i prefer RJ Hampton over Cade Cunningham.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#70 » by orlando_joe » Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:57 pm

Blacksheep25 wrote:
whitehops wrote:since ricky rubio has been out the last 12 games, the cavs have a DRTG of 113.8, which would be a bottom-5 defense over the course of the season.

i wonder what that does to mobley's ROY campaign because the current narrative is that he is the reason for their top 3 defense.


Lauri getting hurt tonight and likely out for a month or more pretty much ascertains he wins ROTY now. He was going to anyway, but now it’s a no brainer.

You see the immediate effect on his rebound numbers with 17 tonight. Likely those minutes are spread among guys who play better defense, but take fewer shots. So their defense will look better and his numbers will go up as he is like one of these rookies playing for a bad team like Cade.

He’s shared rebounds with two other 7 footers all year. Lauri takes a decent amount of shots that his replacement likely won’t. More likely his minutes will go to guys who are more traditional SF size, He’ll play a little more center most likely and his minutes will be staggered a little more with Allen, so he’l he contesting less shots on perimeter I’d guess and he scores and rebounds more when he’s at center. Obviously Lauri is a very strange SF, and it sometimes works out, and other times, doesn’t, They’ll have worse spacing, but that will bother other players more than Mobley who doesn’t shoot a lot from behind the arc. He’ll score a few more points a game and grab more rebounds now. He might not actually be more effective, but his counting stats will look like he is.

He’s still the best defensive rookie by a million miles. He will be scoring as much as any of them and rebounding more. It’s his award barring a long injury.

suggs plays pretty good d...not sure its a million miles..but yes very good
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#71 » by Blacksheep25 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:14 pm

basketballRob wrote:
Blacksheep25 wrote:
whitehops wrote:since ricky rubio has been out the last 12 games, the cavs have a DRTG of 113.8, which would be a bottom-5 defense over the course of the season.

i wonder what that does to mobley's ROY campaign because the current narrative is that he is the reason for their top 3 defense.


Lauri getting hurt tonight and likely out for a month or more pretty much ascertains he wins ROTY now. He was going to anyway, but now it’s a no brainer.

You see the immediate effect on his rebound numbers with 17 tonight. Likely those minutes are spread among guys who play better defense, but take fewer shots. So their defense will look better and his numbers will go up as he is like one of these rookies playing for a bad team like Cade.

He’s shared rebounds with two other 7 footers all year. Lauri takes a decent amount of shots that his replacement likely won’t. More likely his minutes will go to guys who are more traditional SF size, He’ll play a little more center most likely and his minutes will be staggered a little more with Allen, so he’l he contesting less shots on perimeter I’d guess and he scores and rebounds more when he’s at center. Obviously Lauri is a very strange SF, and it sometimes works out, and other times, doesn’t, They’ll have worse spacing, but that will bother other players more than Mobley who doesn’t shoot a lot from behind the arc. He’ll score a few more points a game and grab more rebounds now. He might not actually be more effective, but his counting stats will look like he is.

He’s still the best defensive rookie by a million miles. He will be scoring as much as any of them and rebounding more. It’s his award barring a long injury.
I missed the game. Did OKC start the really small lineup again? They usually don't play anyone over like 6'7".

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Yeah, they were small. You didn’t miss much. We aren’t very good right now with all the injuries piling up. Thankfully the schedule is relatively easy for next month and the all star break.

I wasn’t suggesting Mobley will routinely rebound 17 boards a game against normal teams. I just think his counting stats trend slightly up with LM out when he was already among the leaders and his defensive ability is already lauded and he’s considered the best amongst the rookies by a long way. He’s certainly not playing defense on the level he was a month ago, but he’s still amazing at it for a rookie.

I’d guess he’s lifting a lot. On his frame it’s imperceptible yet, but he seems to be struggling with free throws after being very good at it, taking less three pointers, but more willing to bang inside and trying to rebound stronger. All stuff I associate with a young kid when he starts hitting the weights and is getting stronger, yet hasn’t adjusted to it yet.

The Cavs didn’t need another injury, but when you think of what the likely affect is, the Cabs schedule is such they likely win at .500 or slightly above even with all the injuries because they’re playing bad teams. They’ll be closer games because they are a worse team and need to play defense until the end. LM scores decently but plays defense badly. He’s tried harder, but he got smoked by a Derozan type the other day. He’s not equipped to guard guys like that. Him out opens up more shots and probably results in better defense. Less spacing, but that isn’t bad for a 7 footer not shooting threes often.

They were a much better team than people realized pre-Rubio injury. Now we basically have one guy who can dribble at an NBA level with losing Sexton, Rubio, Rondo out since he basically got here. I’m not very optimistic for the rest of the year. I expect more injuries with these guys playing too many minutes and our ceiling is much lower than it was six weeks ago. But purely for counting stats and stupid rookie awards, it likely helps Mobley as he’s likely to end up in the top few scorers while being viewed as the best defensive rookie in years.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#72 » by NRSV » Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:15 pm

No disrespect to Suggs. I like him a lot. He will likely make some all defense teams in his career if voters know what they’re looking at.

But analytics have Mobley as a 99th percentile rim protector. In the entire NBA. Not just amongst rookies.

He’s also clamped Dame, Tatum, Herro, and others on the perimeter in crunch time.

Players will drive into the paint and immediately turn around when he comes over to help because it’s block city.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#73 » by Blacksheep25 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:18 pm

orlando_joe wrote:
Blacksheep25 wrote:
whitehops wrote:since ricky rubio has been out the last 12 games, the cavs have a DRTG of 113.8, which would be a bottom-5 defense over the course of the season.

i wonder what that does to mobley's ROY campaign because the current narrative is that he is the reason for their top 3 defense.


Lauri getting hurt tonight and likely out for a month or more pretty much ascertains he wins ROTY now. He was going to anyway, but now it’s a no brainer.

You see the immediate effect on his rebound numbers with 17 tonight. Likely those minutes are spread among guys who play better defense, but take fewer shots. So their defense will look better and his numbers will go up as he is like one of these rookies playing for a bad team like Cade.

He’s shared rebounds with two other 7 footers all year. Lauri takes a decent amount of shots that his replacement likely won’t. More likely his minutes will go to guys who are more traditional SF size, He’ll play a little more center most likely and his minutes will be staggered a little more with Allen, so he’l he contesting less shots on perimeter I’d guess and he scores and rebounds more when he’s at center. Obviously Lauri is a very strange SF, and it sometimes works out, and other times, doesn’t, They’ll have worse spacing, but that will bother other players more than Mobley who doesn’t shoot a lot from behind the arc. He’ll score a few more points a game and grab more rebounds now. He might not actually be more effective, but his counting stats will look like he is.

He’s still the best defensive rookie by a million miles. He will be scoring as much as any of them and rebounding more. It’s his award barring a long injury.

suggs plays pretty good d...not sure its a million miles..but yes very good



I agree he does play very good defense. Guards don’t get the defensive credit when they’re good, or it take a long time to establish that reputation. Obviously there hasn’t been a DPOY from that position since Payton almost 30 years ago, but I agree he’s very good.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#74 » by ConSarnit » Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:46 pm

basketballRob wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
Yezzzzzzzir. It's comical how quickly people gave up on this guy. I never stopped believing once that he'll become a bonafide star in this league eventually. His only weakness is his outside shooting and handles and only reason those aren't strengths of his is because he hasn't played basketball nearly enough compared to other top rookies (i.e. lack of reps) since he used to be a football player. Give this dude some time, he's gonna be Orlando's big star for years to come.

So many young, promising players on Orlando. Off the top of my head I believe they have the best young crop moving forward:
A-level prospects: Suggs, Wagner, WCJ, Cole (though I don't see him being part of the team long term)
B-level prospects: Bamba, Hampton

I just hope every single one of those guys has long and healthy career. I was pretty high on Isaac (and still am) but it's unfortunate how injuries impeded his progress.


I feel like outside shooting and handles might be pretty important for a guard. I'm not going to write Suggs off but he's possibly the worst shooting rookie of all-time. A guard who has loose handles and terrible shooting doesn't bode well for him becoming a "bonafide" star.

And Suggs has played pretty high level basketball since grade 8, so I'm not exactly sure where you're getting this idea he doesn't have the reps.

I don't know why there is this idea that they need to get rid of Anthony to make room for Suggs. He's only a year older and might just be flat out better than Suggs. Keep the better guy.
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Yeah, I'm definitely not writing him off. Suggs has good athleticism and his form looks good. He also plays with really good effort and has strong intangibles. He has a good foundation to work with and is probably still trying to adjust (as with most rookies).
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#75 » by srhcan » Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:48 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:suggs last night 22/4/9/2/2
since back 5 games 14.8/5.6/5.2
and great d
still needs work on turnovers but looking solid


Yezzzzzzzir. It's comical how quickly people gave up on this guy. I never stopped believing once that he'll become a bonafide star in this league eventually. His only weakness is his outside shooting and handles and only reason those aren't strengths of his is because he hasn't played basketball nearly enough compared to other top rookies (i.e. lack of reps) since he used to be a football player. Give this dude some time, he's gonna be Orlando's big star for years to come.

So many young, promising players on Orlando. Off the top of my head I believe they have the best young crop moving forward:
A-level prospects: Suggs, Wagner, WCJ, Cole (though I don't see him being part of the team long term)
B-level prospects: Bamba, Hampton

I just hope every single one of those guys has long and healthy career. I was pretty high on Isaac (and still am) but it's unfortunate how injuries impeded his progress.

I think Bamba is A-level prospect. Orlando has just done a very poor job in developing him. I hope he move to another team, he can flourish in the right system.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#76 » by srhcan » Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:00 am

lobosloboslobos wrote:
thelead wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:Scottie Barnes heard you guys talking about a rookie wall

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I didn't get to catch the game. Did he look healthier and more active? He just didn't look right to me physically (and energy-wise) over the last few weeks.


Absolutey. Much looser and more comfortable looking. He has definitely had a lingering hip injury that has slowed him and he was still getting treatment on it during the game, but it seems to be a lot better thankfully. Shot 12-19 and was killing it in the paint.


I look at the highlights and almost all his points come in paint when he was playing against a smaller player. Most teams would not match him with a smaller player. I would like to see him shoot more midrange and 3-pointers, he needs to improve his shooting.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#77 » by SOUL » Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:36 am

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Suggs does so many things well besides shooting to affect the game. My biggest worry is the ballhandling but he's the kind of guy you want on your team when you want to compete. I can see him having a Jrue-level affect once he becomes a vet and learns the game a bit more.
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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#78 » by Optimus_Steel » Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:42 am

srhcan wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:suggs last night 22/4/9/2/2
since back 5 games 14.8/5.6/5.2
and great d
still needs work on turnovers but looking solid


Yezzzzzzzir. It's comical how quickly people gave up on this guy. I never stopped believing once that he'll become a bonafide star in this league eventually. His only weakness is his outside shooting and handles and only reason those aren't strengths of his is because he hasn't played basketball nearly enough compared to other top rookies (i.e. lack of reps) since he used to be a football player. Give this dude some time, he's gonna be Orlando's big star for years to come.

So many young, promising players on Orlando. Off the top of my head I believe they have the best young crop moving forward:
A-level prospects: Suggs, Wagner, WCJ, Cole (though I don't see him being part of the team long term)
B-level prospects: Bamba, Hampton

I just hope every single one of those guys has long and healthy career. I was pretty high on Isaac (and still am) but it's unfortunate how injuries impeded his progress.

I think Bamba is A-level prospect. Orlando has just done a very poor job in developing him. I hope he move to another team, he can flourish in the right system.
Trust me he is not an A level prospect. You can't be if you have no awareness, fire, and just play lackadaisical.

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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#79 » by 7r5ur » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:31 am

This is pretty wild. Cade is the 17th most double-teamed player in the entire NBA based on % of each player's possessions that see a double. More than Steph and Lebron :o

Get this man some teammates.

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Re: 2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5) 

Post#80 » by basketballRob » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:37 am

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