If It Is To Be Said. So It Be. So It Is. The First Deadline Trade Thread.

[Curmudgeon]

duplicate deleted

[Hal14]

Barnes and/or Hield.

I feel like adding either 1 or both of them would do 2 things:

a) Give us a good player(s)
b) shake things up b/c clearly something is off with the current roster and a little change, shake up would probably do us good

Hield gives us a legit knick down shooter.
Barnes would be a swiss army knife. Versatile, 2-way guy. Score, pass, defend. Can shoot, rebound a little. Kind of like Richardson but 3" taller.

Either trade for 1 of them, both of the, or maybe just try to move up in the draft, so like trade someone for a draft pick that is more likely to be in the top 5 or 10.. so we can give ourselves a better chance at a top 5 (or a worst top 10) pick, a guy who can be a legit 3rd star alongside Tatum/Brown..

[playa-hater]

Barnes and/or Hield.

I feel like adding either 1 or both of them would do 2 things:

a) Give us a good player(s)
b) shake things up b/c clearly something is off with the current roster and a little change, shake up would probably do us good

Hield gives us a legit knick down shooter.
Barnes would be a swiss army knife. Versatile, 2-way guy. Score, pass, defend. Can shoot, rebound a little. Kind of like Richardson but 3" taller.

Either trade for 1 of them, both of the, or maybe just try to move up in the draft, so like trade someone for a draft pick that is more likely to be in the top 5 or 10.. so we can give ourselves a better chance at a top 5 (or a worst top 10) pick, a guy who can be a legit 3rd star alongside Tatum/Brown..

Their salaries would be very hard to match it would take Al horford plus something.

[Curmudgeon]

Some people watch Fox News and don't get vaccinated. Other people listen to WEEI and want to trade Smart.

Smart is a good role player. He has strengths and clear flaws.

This hill you want to die on regarding Smart is old and tired. He’s available for a deal that helps this team.

I'm fine with that. Tatum and/or Brown should be available for the same reason.

Smart is a role player who occasionally plays like a star, as do many role players. Tony Delk scored 53 points in a game. Smart shouldn't be scapegoated when he doesn't play like a star.

[vwoodruff]

The “Tatum has a **** supporting cast” argument is tired and wrong.

J. Brown
R. Williams
M. Smart
J. Richardson
G. Williams
A. Horford
D. Schroder
P. Pritchard
R. Langford

Those nine players are all highly capably of filling key roles on a championship team in support of the right #1 and coach. Put that team with Jimmy friggin’ Butler, and you’d be in the top 3 in the East this year.

One of the reasons we seem to need a PG is evident every time Pritchard is on the floor with Tatum. Instead of Pritchard being an asset who can handle the ball and spot up for 3 on the swing and doubles, Tatum is constantly calling for the ball once it’s across the half court. This turns Pritchard into a spot up shooter and the possession into dribble-dribble-stand-around-contested shot.

This has been apparent since the Heat series in the bubble. That series exposed the contrast between an offense that moves the ball and one that relies on isolation. The silver lining of that series was that it should have been a great demonstration that by tweaking play style, the Cs would have been in the finals. Instead, the Cs came out last year and dribbled the air out of the ball.

I’ll admit I blamed it on Brad for not holding his players accountable (which he didn’t). I liked what Ime said immediately after his press conference about ball movement and accountability. It appears that making it happen and talking about it are two very different things.

It’s Tatum. And then it’s Ime. But, largely, it’s
Tatum.

To me, this is the critical juncture in the future of this franchise. Trade Tatum for huge assets and the Celtics would find their outcome this year will be roughly the same (possibly better with the right deal) and that the championship foundation is stronger.

And while I think it should happen at the deadline because this year is a gettable championship for a number of teams and there theoretically is a great opportunity to extract value in a manner that is big for the Cs and puts Tatum on a better path to success, it likely would need to happen in the off-season once extension trade prohibitions expire.

[Half-Full]

One of the reasons we seem to need a PG is evident every time Pritchard is on the floor with Tatum. Instead of Pritchard being an asset who can handle the ball and spot up for 3 on the swing and doubles, Tatum is constantly calling for the ball once it’s across the half court. This turns Pritchard into a spot up shooter and the possession into dribble-dribble-stand-around-contested shot.

Totally. Pritchard hardly gets the ball in his hand when he has to pass it off to Tatum. This is why I have advocated for putting the young guys on the court without either of the Jays. A lineup of Pritchard, Nesmith, Romeo, Grant and either Al or RWill will free up Pritchard's game. The others will benefit as well. We get to see what they can do, and the Jays get a rest. We already know they are capable. They can help us more on the court than on the bench.

[Jaqua92]

The “Tatum has a **** supporting cast” argument is tired and wrong.

J. Brown
R. Williams
M. Smart
J. Richardson
G. Williams
A. Horford
D. Schroder
P. Pritchard
R. Langford

Those nine players are all highly capably of filling key roles on a championship team in support of the right #1 and coach. Put that team with Jimmy friggin’ Butler, and you’d be in the top 3 in the East this year.

One of the reasons we seem to need a PG is evident every time Pritchard is on the floor with Tatum. Instead of Pritchard being an asset who can handle the ball and spot up for 3 on the swing and doubles, Tatum is constantly calling for the ball once it’s across the half court. This turns Pritchard into a spot up shooter and the possession into dribble-dribble-stand-around-contested shot.

This has been apparent since the Heat series in the bubble. That series exposed the contrast between an offense that moves the ball and one that relies on isolation. The silver lining of that series was that it should have been a great demonstration that by tweaking play style, the Cs would have been in the finals. Instead, the Cs came out last year and dribbled the air out of the ball.

I’ll admit I blamed it on Brad for not holding his players accountable (which he didn’t). I liked what Ime said immediately after his press conference about ball movement and accountability. It appears that making it happen and talking about it are two very different things.

It’s Tatum. And then it’s Ime. But, largely, it’s
Tatum.

To me, this is the critical juncture in the future of this franchise. Trade Tatum for huge assets and the Celtics would find their outcome this year will be roughly the same (possibly better with the right deal) and that the championship foundation is stronger.

And while I think it should happen at the deadline because this year is a gettable championship for a number of teams and there theoretically is a great opportunity to extract value in a manner that is big for the Cs and puts Tatum on a better path to success, it likely would need to happen in the off-season once extension trade prohibitions expire.

Absolutely not.

Tatum's not the #1 guy on a contender yet, but that supporting cast isn't a championship caliber team for anyone else in this league right now.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Jaqua92]

Edit

[Celts17Pride]

The “Tatum has a **** supporting cast” argument is tired and wrong.

J. Brown
R. Williams
M. Smart
J. Richardson
G. Williams
A. Horford
D. Schroder
P. Pritchard
R. Langford

Those nine players are all highly capably of filling key roles on a championship team in support of the right #1 and coach. Put that team with Jimmy friggin’ Butler, and you’d be in the top 3 in the East this year.

One of the reasons we seem to need a PG is evident every time Pritchard is on the floor with Tatum. Instead of Pritchard being an asset who can handle the ball and spot up for 3 on the swing and doubles, Tatum is constantly calling for the ball once it’s across the half court. This turns Pritchard into a spot up shooter and the possession into dribble-dribble-stand-around-contested shot.

This has been apparent since the Heat series in the bubble. That series exposed the contrast between an offense that moves the ball and one that relies on isolation. The silver lining of that series was that it should have been a great demonstration that by tweaking play style, the Cs would have been in the finals. Instead, the Cs came out last year and dribbled the air out of the ball.

I’ll admit I blamed it on Brad for not holding his players accountable (which he didn’t). I liked what Ime said immediately after his press conference about ball movement and accountability. It appears that making it happen and talking about it are two very different things.

It’s Tatum. And then it’s Ime. But, largely, it’s
Tatum.

To me, this is the critical juncture in the future of this franchise. Trade Tatum for huge assets and the Celtics would find their outcome this year will be roughly the same (possibly better with the right deal) and that the championship foundation is stronger.

And while I think it should happen at the deadline because this year is a gettable championship for a number of teams and there theoretically is a great opportunity to extract value in a manner that is big for the Cs and puts Tatum on a better path to success, it likely would need to happen in the off-season once extension trade prohibitions expire.

Absolutely not.

Tatum's not the #1 guy on a contender yet, but that supporting cast isn't a championship caliber team for anyone else in this league right now.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

All the guys listed above no other NBA wants in the trade market except Brown, Smart and RW3.

What does that tell you?

Edit: Maybe G.Williams has some trade value but not much

[winsomme2]

I think at this point I'd like to just trade Schroder and JRich for draft assets/expirings and play the young guys.

Reality is that we'll still probably be a 500 team with Jaylen, Tatum, and Smart so it's not a real tank but at least we'll see if one or more of PP, Nesmith, Langford, Hauser can develop into a player and have a pick in the 12-14 range in a draft where there will be really talented prospects available.

Smart/PP
Jaylen/Langford
Tatum/Nesmith
RWill/Grant/Hauser
Horford/Freedon

[zoyathedestroya]

The “Tatum has a **** supporting cast” argument is tired and wrong.

J. Brown
R. Williams
M. Smart
J. Richardson
G. Williams
A. Horford
D. Schroder
P. Pritchard
R. Langford

Those nine players are all highly capably of filling key roles on a championship team in support of the right #1 and coach. Put that team with Jimmy friggin’ Butler, and you’d be in the top 3 in the East this year.

One of the reasons we seem to need a PG is evident every time Pritchard is on the floor with Tatum. Instead of Pritchard being an asset who can handle the ball and spot up for 3 on the swing and doubles, Tatum is constantly calling for the ball once it’s across the half court. This turns Pritchard into a spot up shooter and the possession into dribble-dribble-stand-around-contested shot.

This has been apparent since the Heat series in the bubble. That series exposed the contrast between an offense that moves the ball and one that relies on isolation. The silver lining of that series was that it should have been a great demonstration that by tweaking play style, the Cs would have been in the finals. Instead, the Cs came out last year and dribbled the air out of the ball.

I’ll admit I blamed it on Brad for not holding his players accountable (which he didn’t). I liked what Ime said immediately after his press conference about ball movement and accountability. It appears that making it happen and talking about it are two very different things.

It’s Tatum. And then it’s Ime. But, largely, it’s
Tatum.

To me, this is the critical juncture in the future of this franchise. Trade Tatum for huge assets and the Celtics would find their outcome this year will be roughly the same (possibly better with the right deal) and that the championship foundation is stronger.

And while I think it should happen at the deadline because this year is a gettable championship for a number of teams and there theoretically is a great opportunity to extract value in a manner that is big for the Cs and puts Tatum on a better path to success, it likely would need to happen in the off-season once extension trade prohibitions expire.

Absolutely not.

Tatum's not the #1 guy on a contender yet, but that supporting cast isn't a championship caliber team for anyone else in this league right now.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

All the guys listed above no other NBA wants in the trade market except Brown, Smart and RW3.

What does that tell you?

Edit: Maybe G.Williams has some trade value but not much

Who do you want to trade for from the recent champs Bucks supporting cast besides Middleton, Jrue, Portis, and maybe DiVincenzo. And don't lie...

[Curmudgeon]

It's tough to build up the trade value of the young players when (1) they don't play, and (2) when they do play they stand around watching Tatum and Brown dribble.

If you want to tank for the lottery, let Tatum play point guard as he did against Portland. The team scored zero baskets in seven minutes with him running the offense. No other personnel changes would be required.

[Celts17Pride]

Absolutely not.

Tatum's not the #1 guy on a contender yet, but that supporting cast isn't a championship caliber team for anyone else in this league right now.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

All the guys listed above no other NBA wants in the trade market except Brown, Smart and RW3.

What does that tell you?

Edit: Maybe G.Williams has some trade value but not much

Who do you want to trade for from the recent champs Bucks supporting cast besides Middleton, Jrue, Portis, and maybe DiVincenzo. And don't lie...

Celtics have 3 guys playing significant minutes Schroder, Richardson and Horford that their teams didn’t want and dumped them.

The rest are young players Langford, Pritchard, Nesmith that if they were free agents would have a tough time getting jobs or something more than a minimum contract.

Guys like Fernando, Freedom, Dozier, Bol are just lucky to be in the NBA.

The only Celtics that have any value are Tatum, Brown, Smart, RW3 and maybe G Williams a little value.

The roster is garbage. Setting up Tatum and Brown for failure. We can agree to disagree.

My opinion is you want Tatum and Brown to play better put better role players around them.

[zoyathedestroya]

Cs can replace their entire non-Jays crew with whoever's available in the trade market and it likely will still not matter (if goal is a title). I personally don't go, "I wish the Cs had Gary Payton II and Bjelica instead of Richardson and Grant." Dubs win with the guys they have because of the system they run which is mostly driven by what their two top guys (Curry, Draymond) are capable of and not because they have Jordan Poole.

[Celts17Pride]

Cs can replace their entire non-Jays crew with whoever's available in the trade market and it likely will still not matter (if goal is a title). I personally don't go, "I wish the Cs had Gary Payton II and Bjelica instead of Richardson and Grant." Dubs win with the guys they have because of the system they run which is mostly driven by what their two top guys (Curry, Draymond) are capable of and not because they have Jordan Poole.

Tatum and Brown are averaging 50 ppg, 14 rpg and 7 apg between them.

How much more do you want them to do?

75 ppg, 20 rpg, 15 apg?

[Fencer reregistered]

All the guys listed above no other NBA wants in the trade market except Brown, Smart and RW3.

What does that tell you?

Edit: Maybe G.Williams has some trade value but not much

Who do you want to trade for from the recent champs Bucks supporting cast besides Middleton, Jrue, Portis, and maybe DiVincenzo. And don't lie...

Celtics have 3 guys playing significant minutes Schroder, Richardson and Horford that their teams didn’t want and dumped them.

The rest are young players Langford, Pritchard, Nesmith that if they were free agents would have a tough time getting jobs or something more than a minimum contract.

Guys like Fernando, Freedom, Dozier, Bol are just lucky to be in the NBA.

The only Celtics that have any value are Tatum, Brown, Smart, RW3 and maybe G Williams a little value.

The roster is garbage. Setting up Tatum and Brown for failure. We can agree to disagree.

My opinion is you want Tatum and Brown to play better put better role players around them.

I don't think Schroeder was dumped.
Richardson was dumped, but is somewhat outplaying the Mavs' estimation of him.
Hopefully one or more of Langford/Nesmith/Pritchard will develop.

But your general point makes sense.

[zoyathedestroya]

Cs can replace their entire non-Jays crew with whoever's available in the trade market and it likely will still not matter (if goal is a title). I personally don't go, "I wish the Cs had Gary Payton II and Bjelica instead of Richardson and Grant." Dubs win with the guys they have because of the system they run which is mostly driven by what their two top guys (Curry, Draymond) are capable of and not because they have Jordan Poole.

Tatum and Brown are averaging 50 ppg, 14 rpg and 7 apg between them.

How much more do you want them to do?

75 ppg, 20 rpg, 15 apg?

Raw numbers? That's where we're at with this argument?

Maybe if Tatum doesn't shoot like **** esp in clutch moments, we'd win a couple more games. If you want to stick with raw numbers.

[Celts17Pride]

Cs can replace their entire non-Jays crew with whoever's available in the trade market and it likely will still not matter (if goal is a title). I personally don't go, "I wish the Cs had Gary Payton II and Bjelica instead of Richardson and Grant." Dubs win with the guys they have because of the system they run which is mostly driven by what their two top guys (Curry, Draymond) are capable of and not because they have Jordan Poole.

Tatum and Brown are averaging 50 ppg, 14 rpg and 7 apg between them.

How much more do you want them to do?

75 ppg, 20 rpg, 15 apg?

Raw numbers? That's where we're at with this argument?

Maybe if Tatum doesn't shoot like **** esp in clutch moments, we'd win a couple more games. If you want to stick with raw numbers.

We obviously have a difference of opinion. We can just agree to disagree

[Curmudgeon]

The "better supporting cast" argument is spurious. If Smart, Timelord, Richardson et. al. had a "better supporting cast" they would be a contender too. Tatum and Brown for Steph and Draymond. Where do I sign?

[zoyathedestroya]

I don't know what spurious means since English isn't my first language, but if it has anything to do with the Spurs, I concur with Curm.