Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[winforlose]

So Prince primary value is his contract. That said, have his recent improvements made it easier to move him? Personally I think it is irrelevant, but I also think it is a question worth asking.

[Domejandro]

Something I have been kicking around is…

MIN: Robert Covington
OUT: Taurean Prince, Jake Layman, and two seconds

Why for Minnesota? Substantially upgrade the bench defense and shooting, obtain a $3.94MM TPE, open up a roster spot, get Robert Covington’s bird-rights, and gain a bit more wiggle room under the Luxury-Tax ($4.9MM).

Why not for Minnesota? It is a short-sighted trade.

OKC: Taurean Prince and Jake Layman
OUT: Derrick Favors and a second

Why for OKC? Use their cap space this season to dump the $10.2MM owed to Derrick Favors next off-season.

Why not for OKC? There’s probably a reason, maybe trading a second isn’t worth the increased flexibility.

POR: Derrick Favors and three seconds
OUT: Robert Covington

Why for Portland? Avoid the Repeater Tax this season while obtaining three seconds. Derrick Favors, while overpaid, is a very solid third big.

Why not for Portland? While avoiding the Luxury-Tax is this year is positive, Derrick Favors contract is inflated.


Could simplify the trade to just the Portland and Minnesota, but I think avoiding the Repeater Tax + one second is worth more to Portland.

[minimus]

Obogie, Layman, top10 protected FRP for Patrick Williams, Simonovic.

Why for CHI: get some immediate help and FRP

KAT/Reid + Knight
Vando/MCD + (Williams)
Edwards/Prince
Beverley/Beasley/Bolmaro
DLo/Nowell/JMac

[shrink]

I just wanted to finish up the Naz Reid discussion for those that didn’t go over to the Trades and Transactions thread. The best Idea I head was from HartfordWhalers, who suggested that we pick up Naz’s cheap option next year, and immediately offer him an extension.

The reason I like this idea is that MIN continues to benefit for one more season from the Hinkie-special deal, getting Naz discount production for a ridiculous $1.93 mil. But picking up that option would make Naz a UFA the following summer, and I imagine forcing him to play for far less than he is worth, plus with no security if he gets hurt, would alienate him, and he’d never sign with us. By doing it this way, we can give him the security he should want, having never made much money in the NBA. MIN also maintains a lot of leverage, and he may take a deal for a few mil less than market, simply to sign now for guaranteed, life-changing money. If I was Gupta, I would point to Vanderbilt’s contract of $4.2, $4.6, $4.9, and offer that as an extension, with the bulk of the money guaranteed.

By picking up the team option and extending him, we get to use him in this year’s playoffs, we get one more ultra-cheap year, and with future years on a contract under market-value, even if we trade him later, we should get something back in return.

[winforlose]

I just wanted to finish up the Naz Reid discussion for those that didn’t go over to the Trades and Transactions thread. The best Idea I head was from HartfordWhalers, who suggested that we pick up Naz’s cheap option next year, and immediately offer him an extension.

The reason I like this idea is that MIN continues to benefit for one more season from the Hinkie-special deal, getting Naz discount production for a ridiculous $1.93 mil. But picking up that option would make Naz a UFA the following summer, and I imagine forcing him to play for far less than he is worth, plus with no security if he gets hurt, would alienate him, and he’d never sign with us. By doing it this way, we can give him the security he should want, having never made much money in the NBA. MIN also maintains a lot of leverage, and he may take a deal for a few mil less than market, simply to sign now for guaranteed, life-changing money. If I was Gupta, I would point to Vanderbilt’s contract of $4.2, $4.6, $4.9, and offer that as an extension, with the bulk of the money guaranteed.

By picking up the team option and extending him, we get to use him in this year’s playoffs, we get one more ultra-cheap year, and with future years on a contract under market-value, even if we trade him later, we should get something back in return.

This only works if Naz is happy with his role. I have no specific knowledge one way or the other but I doubt he is. Naz is down 2.8 minutes per game and KAT has missed far less time this season. Naz slump could easily be attributed to inconsistent minutes and frankly too few minutes. Young players like Naz want a chance to strut their stuff to set up future earnings. While he was likely thrilled to be a backup after going undrafted, I doubt he wants to stay a backup for the next few years. Too many teams could use him, and having a 20/10 game as a starter will definitely draw attention. Someone will find him and want him, and his agent would be crazy to let him sign a small money deal rather than go through RFA where he will likely get more.

[NebWolvesFan]

I'm a big fan of a trade for Kelly Olynyk. He's spent a lot of time in the Heat culture and has played well since leaving Miami. Plus with two more years on his deal, I could see the Pistons doing a Prince for Kelly trade to save 25 million. Heck, they could buy our Prince and maybe save a couple more million. Kelly has no future in the rebuilding Pistons. They have Grant, Stewart, and will most likely draft a big in the 2022 draft.

To me, Kelly is Prince with way improved defensive rebounding.

[shrink]

I just wanted to finish up the Naz Reid discussion for those that didn’t go over to the Trades and Transactions thread. The best Idea I head was from HartfordWhalers, who suggested that we pick up Naz’s cheap option next year, and immediately offer him an extension.

The reason I like this idea is that MIN continues to benefit for one more season from the Hinkie-special deal, getting Naz discount production for a ridiculous $1.93 mil. But picking up that option would make Naz a UFA the following summer, and I imagine forcing him to play for far less than he is worth, plus with no security if he gets hurt, would alienate him, and he’d never sign with us. By doing it this way, we can give him the security he should want, having never made much money in the NBA. MIN also maintains a lot of leverage, and he may take a deal for a few mil less than market, simply to sign now for guaranteed, life-changing money. If I was Gupta, I would point to Vanderbilt’s contract of $4.2, $4.6, $4.9, and offer that as an extension, with the bulk of the money guaranteed.

By picking up the team option and extending him, we get to use him in this year’s playoffs, we get one more ultra-cheap year, and with future years on a contract under market-value, even if we trade him later, we should get something back in return.

This only works if Naz is happy with his role. I have no specific knowledge one way or the other but I doubt he is. Naz is down 2.8 minutes per game and KAT has missed far less time this season. Naz slump could easily be attributed to inconsistent minutes and frankly too few minutes. Young players like Naz want a chance to strut their stuff to set up future earnings. While he was likely thrilled to be a backup after going undrafted, I doubt he wants to stay a backup for the next few years. Too many teams could use him, and having a 20/10 game as a starter will definitely draw attention. Someone will find him and want him, and his agent would be crazy to let him sign a small money deal rather than go through RFA where he will likely get more.

Well, it’s a team option, so even if Naz and his agent prefer to be an RFA, it’s not his choice, for the contract he signed.

After the team option is picked up, where Naz does have a choice is whether or not to extend. For a player that’s labored so long making minimum salaries, most will opt for the security of signing that first larger deal.

As an undrafted player, Naz may appreciate the team signing him, or at this point, he may want a larger role. You’re right - we never hear anything from him. We can still trade him on the extension, or even right away as an extend-and-trade, though those are less common in today’s NBA.

[wolves_89]

A little over 2 weeks from the trade deadline, my list of somewhat realistic PF/C trade targets would be:

Paul Millsap
Rui Hachimura
Kyle Kuzma
Kelly Olynyk
Larry Nance
Marvin Bagley
PJ Washington

[Klomp]

I just wanted to finish up the Naz Reid discussion for those that didn’t go over to the Trades and Transactions thread. The best Idea I head was from HartfordWhalers, who suggested that we pick up Naz’s cheap option next year, and immediately offer him an extension.

The reason I like this idea is that MIN continues to benefit for one more season from the Hinkie-special deal, getting Naz discount production for a ridiculous $1.93 mil. But picking up that option would make Naz a UFA the following summer, and I imagine forcing him to play for far less than he is worth, plus with no security if he gets hurt, would alienate him, and he’d never sign with us. By doing it this way, we can give him the security he should want, having never made much money in the NBA. MIN also maintains a lot of leverage, and he may take a deal for a few mil less than market, simply to sign now for guaranteed, life-changing money. If I was Gupta, I would point to Vanderbilt’s contract of $4.2, $4.6, $4.9, and offer that as an extension, with the bulk of the money guaranteed.

By picking up the team option and extending him, we get to use him in this year’s playoffs, we get one more ultra-cheap year, and with future years on a contract under market-value, even if we trade him later, we should get something back in return.

This only works if Naz is happy with his role. I have no specific knowledge one way or the other but I doubt he is. Naz is down 2.8 minutes per game and KAT has missed far less time this season. Naz slump could easily be attributed to inconsistent minutes and frankly too few minutes. Young players like Naz want a chance to strut their stuff to set up future earnings. While he was likely thrilled to be a backup after going undrafted, I doubt he wants to stay a backup for the next few years. Too many teams could use him, and having a 20/10 game as a starter will definitely draw attention. Someone will find him and want him, and his agent would be crazy to let him sign a small money deal rather than go through RFA where he will likely get more.

Well, it’s a team option, so even if Naz and his agent prefer to be an RFA, it’s not his choice, for the contract he signed.

After the team option is picked up, where Naz does have a choice is whether or not to extend. For a player that’s labored so long making minimum salaries, most will opt for the security of signing that first larger deal.

As an undrafted player, Naz may appreciate the team signing him, or at this point, he may want a larger role. You’re right - we never hear anything from him. We can still trade him on the extension, or even right away as an extend-and-trade, though those are less common in today’s NBA.

I draw a lot of similarities between Naz Reid and Marcin Gortat.

On July 8, 2009, Gortat, a restricted free agent, signed an offer sheet for five years and $34 million with the Dallas Mavericks. However, Orlando prevented Gortat from going to Dallas by matching the offer sheet on July 13, 2009. Gortat was said to be "very disappointed" to stay with the Magic, since continuing as backup to Dwight Howard would mean limited playing time, whereas playing for Dallas would likely have meant being the starting center.

On December 18, 2010, Gortat was traded to the Phoenix Suns along with Vince Carter, Mickaël Piétrus, a 2011 first-round draft pick (which would become Nikola Mirotić), and $3 million, in exchange for Jason Richardson, Earl Clark, and then-former Magic player and former teammate Hedo Türkoğlu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcin_Gortat

[winforlose]

I just wanted to finish up the Naz Reid discussion for those that didn’t go over to the Trades and Transactions thread. The best Idea I head was from HartfordWhalers, who suggested that we pick up Naz’s cheap option next year, and immediately offer him an extension.

The reason I like this idea is that MIN continues to benefit for one more season from the Hinkie-special deal, getting Naz discount production for a ridiculous $1.93 mil. But picking up that option would make Naz a UFA the following summer, and I imagine forcing him to play for far less than he is worth, plus with no security if he gets hurt, would alienate him, and he’d never sign with us. By doing it this way, we can give him the security he should want, having never made much money in the NBA. MIN also maintains a lot of leverage, and he may take a deal for a few mil less than market, simply to sign now for guaranteed, life-changing money. If I was Gupta, I would point to Vanderbilt’s contract of $4.2, $4.6, $4.9, and offer that as an extension, with the bulk of the money guaranteed.

By picking up the team option and extending him, we get to use him in this year’s playoffs, we get one more ultra-cheap year, and with future years on a contract under market-value, even if we trade him later, we should get something back in return.

This only works if Naz is happy with his role. I have no specific knowledge one way or the other but I doubt he is. Naz is down 2.8 minutes per game and KAT has missed far less time this season. Naz slump could easily be attributed to inconsistent minutes and frankly too few minutes. Young players like Naz want a chance to strut their stuff to set up future earnings. While he was likely thrilled to be a backup after going undrafted, I doubt he wants to stay a backup for the next few years. Too many teams could use him, and having a 20/10 game as a starter will definitely draw attention. Someone will find him and want him, and his agent would be crazy to let him sign a small money deal rather than go through RFA where he will likely get more.

Well, it’s a team option, so even if Naz and his agent prefer to be an RFA, it’s not his choice, for the contract he signed.

After the team option is picked up, where Naz does have a choice is whether or not to extend. For a player that’s labored so long making minimum salaries, most will opt for the security of signing that first larger deal.

As an undrafted player, Naz may appreciate the team signing him, or at this point, he may want a larger role. You’re right - we never hear anything from him. We can still trade him on the extension, or even right away as an extend-and-trade, though those are less common in today’s NBA.

Allow me to clarify. Naz trade value is better after signing a reasonable long term deal instead of one cheap year. Therefore, I find it unlikely they pick up the option and pay him piddles if they don’t believe he will extend. Before making the choice they talk to Naz and his agent and at that point they would tell the team he would prefer to go through RFA or only extend for X. My guess is the agent would inflate X to a very large number to punish us for trying to under pay Naz next year and skip RFA. Thus, if we want to keep him and keep him happy, RFA is our best bet.

I agree players don’t like the uncertainty of playing in a contract year with no fall back in case they are injured. That said, if Naz bets on himself we lose him for a fraction of his trade value. I think the best bet is to move him now. He is 22, and has a history of playing well off the bench and as a fill in. Moreover, I would follow that move with either converting Knight or buying someone like Paul Reed cheap.

[shrink]

This only works if Naz is happy with his role. I have no specific knowledge one way or the other but I doubt he is. Naz is down 2.8 minutes per game and KAT has missed far less time this season. Naz slump could easily be attributed to inconsistent minutes and frankly too few minutes. Young players like Naz want a chance to strut their stuff to set up future earnings. While he was likely thrilled to be a backup after going undrafted, I doubt he wants to stay a backup for the next few years. Too many teams could use him, and having a 20/10 game as a starter will definitely draw attention. Someone will find him and want him, and his agent would be crazy to let him sign a small money deal rather than go through RFA where he will likely get more.

Well, it’s a team option, so even if Naz and his agent prefer to be an RFA, it’s not his choice, for the contract he signed.

After the team option is picked up, where Naz does have a choice is whether or not to extend. For a player that’s labored so long making minimum salaries, most will opt for the security of signing that first larger deal.

As an undrafted player, Naz may appreciate the team signing him, or at this point, he may want a larger role. You’re right - we never hear anything from him. We can still trade him on the extension, or even right away as an extend-and-trade, though those are less common in today’s NBA.

Allow me to clarify. Naz trade value is better after signing a reasonable long term deal instead of one cheap year. Therefore, I find it unlikely they pick up the option and pay him piddles if they don’t believe he will extend. Before making the choice they talk to Naz and his agent and at that point they would tell the team he would prefer to go through RFA or only extend for X. My guess is the agent would inflate X to a very large number to punish us for trying to under pay Naz next year and skip RFA. Thus, if we want to keep him and keep him happy, RFA is our best bet.

I don’t see it. If there is any risk of losing Naz for nothing, it only comes from declining their team option. If they do this, they allow Naz to become an RFA, where 29 other teams can offer him a contract, and it’s quite possible one of those contracts is more than we want to match. We want our team to set the number, and even our fallback position (the two can’t agree on an extension number) is positive.

In the negotiations between Naz and the team this summer, I think it’s highly likely an extension number can be found that helps both the team and Naz. Naz gives up a little, so he can get guaranteed money, and MIN gives up a little so they can have a good, and tradeable, contract. Even if Naz chooses to gamble he doesn’t get hurt and refuses an extension (which I think is unlikely), he still has positive trade value playing for the min. A trade of an I extended Naz also has the added benefits of giving his new team a looksie before they sign him to his next contract, and Naz will come with full Bird rights to any team who doesn’t have cap space or wish to use an exception.

[shrink]

I draw a lot of similarities between Naz Reid and Marcin Gortat.

On July 8, 2009, Gortat, a restricted free agent, signed an offer sheet for five years and $34 million with the Dallas Mavericks. However, Orlando prevented Gortat from going to Dallas by matching the offer sheet on July 13, 2009. Gortat was said to be "very disappointed" to stay with the Magic, since continuing as backup to Dwight Howard would mean limited playing time, whereas playing for Dallas would likely have meant being the starting center.

On December 18, 2010, Gortat was traded to the Phoenix Suns along with Vince Carter, Mickaël Piétrus, a 2011 first-round draft pick (which would become Nikola Mirotić), and $3 million, in exchange for Jason Richardson, Earl Clark, and then-former Magic player and former teammate Hedo Türkoğlu.

There are similarities, but in this case, the team allowed their cheap second rounder to test the market in free agency. Generally, other teams will offer overpaying contracts to other teams’ RFAs to encourage the original team to match. DAL did this, offering a deal at nearly $6 mil a year (a lot, back when the cap was around $53 mil) for five years. Most thought ORL wouldn’t pay that to a back up center, but they matched.

hartfordWhalers mentioned Monte Morris. He was also a 2nd round kid that made good on a cheap deal. In his third year, DEN picked up the cheap team option, and they worked out an extension in December for the following year, on a deal both sides liked and experts called “tradeable.”

[Lastly, since I’ll probably never get a better chance to mention it, I stood in line behind the Polish Hammer at Universal Studios, Tonight Show ride in 2020, before Covid took over. The Wizards had bought him out at that point, so it was unlikely he was coming back to the NBA, but I was shocked how he was phenomenally ripped! I had seen seven footers before, but a ripped 7-footer with normal body proportions was shocking .. like we weren’t the same species! His 5-5 girlfriend was absurdly beautiful as well.]

[winforlose]

Well, it’s a team option, so even if Naz and his agent prefer to be an RFA, it’s not his choice, for the contract he signed.

After the team option is picked up, where Naz does have a choice is whether or not to extend. For a player that’s labored so long making minimum salaries, most will opt for the security of signing that first larger deal.

As an undrafted player, Naz may appreciate the team signing him, or at this point, he may want a larger role. You’re right - we never hear anything from him. We can still trade him on the extension, or even right away as an extend-and-trade, though those are less common in today’s NBA.

Allow me to clarify. Naz trade value is better after signing a reasonable long term deal instead of one cheap year. Therefore, I find it unlikely they pick up the option and pay him piddles if they don’t believe he will extend. Before making the choice they talk to Naz and his agent and at that point they would tell the team he would prefer to go through RFA or only extend for X. My guess is the agent would inflate X to a very large number to punish us for trying to under pay Naz next year and skip RFA. Thus, if we want to keep him and keep him happy, RFA is our best bet.

I don’t see it. If there is any risk of losing Naz for nothing, it only comes from declining their team option. If they do this, they allow Naz to become an RFA, where 29 other teams can offer him a contract, and it’s quite possible one of those contracts is more than we want to match. We want our team to set the number, and even our fallback position (the two can’t agree on an extension number) is positive.

In the negotiations between Naz and the team this summer, I think it’s highly likely an extension number can be found that helps both the team and Naz. Naz gives up a little, so he can get guaranteed money, and MIN gives up a little so they can have a good, and tradeable, contract. Even if Naz chooses to gamble he doesn’t get hurt and refuses an extension (which I think is unlikely), he still has positive trade value playing for the min. A trade of an I extended Naz also has the added benefits of giving his new team a looksie before they sign him to his next contract, and Naz will come with full Bird rights to any team who doesn’t have cap space or wish to use an exception.

Your position is reasonable. The variable is Naz’s opinion of himself. I think being buried behind KAT is a tough spot for a 22 year old backup to be in. That said, he was undrafted and his play has been very up and down for his very short career. I think this is a situation where we lack enough specific information to draw a proper conclusion, but I think both theories are valid given what we know.

[MN7725]

A little over 2 weeks from the trade deadline, my list of somewhat realistic PF/C trade targets would be:

Paul Millsap
Rui Hachimura
Kyle Kuzma
Kelly Olynyk
Larry Nance
Marvin Bagley
PJ Washington

If Clips are going to pack it in, I'd rather have Marcus Morris than any of those guys
they may just want to get off his money, so hopefully not much if any incentive needed

excellent catch/shoot player, just not doing it as much this season with the Clips losing their main guys, so his shooting #s are down overall

[wolves_89]

A little over 2 weeks from the trade deadline, my list of somewhat realistic PF/C trade targets would be:

Paul Millsap
Rui Hachimura
Kyle Kuzma
Kelly Olynyk
Larry Nance
Marvin Bagley
PJ Washington

If Clips are going to pack it in, I'd rather have Marcus Morris than any of those guys
they may just want to get off his money, so hopefully not much if any incentive needed

excellent catch/shoot player, just not doing it as much this season with the Clips losing their main guys, so his shooting #s are down overall

Morris is already 32, has seen a significant drop off in his level of play this year, and is owed $33.5M after this season. I don't really see him as a very attractive trade target. I'd rather go after guys who have upside (Hachimura, Bagley, Washington) or guys who have considerably smaller financial obligations attached.

[Mattya]

Ibaka should be our target to help the interior defense. Not someone you have to commit a lot to anymore. Shoots well enough from outside(especially this season). Plus a veteran who has played a role with other stars who take a lot of shots.

[Mattya]

I love Naz, and while I think he is a good fit for the offense in a vacuum I think he is a rough fit for what we need next to KAT. Keeping Naz on the team makes it difficult to find that big to rotate in and play with or for KAT.

[Neeva]

A little over 2 weeks from the trade deadline, my list of somewhat realistic PF/C trade targets would be:

Paul Millsap
Rui Hachimura
Kyle Kuzma
Kelly Olynyk
Larry Nance
Marvin Bagley
PJ Washington

What about the Mo’s from Orlando, Boucher from
Raptors and Clarke from Memphis?

[TwolvesFanRome]

Hi all guys, here in Italy rumors are starting to circulate about an interest in Westbrook... How true can it be? In my opinion, nothing.

[shrink]

Hi all guys, here in Italy rumors are starting to circulate about an interest in Westbrook... How true can it be? In my opinion, nothing.

I would be shocked!

Gupta said any deal the Wolves make will be geared toward improving now and over the next five years to maximize the "runway" Gupta said the Wolves have with center Karl-Anthony Towns and guards D'Angelo Russell and Anthony Edwards.

"We do see an opportunity to get up to maybe the five [seed], to work our way out of the play-in to just secure a playoff spot outright, which would be great," Gupta said. "Given that opportunity, I'd say we're more buyers. But generally I would say we're buyers over the long term."