Breaking News : Sixers prefer to hold out for James Harden

[Karmaloop]

This is still posturing in my opinion.

Of course it's posturing. Even if James Harden were to want to leave Brooklyn, I don't see any way the Nets would even consider trading him to a division rival.

[OGSactownballer]

I feel like thisnis just more Morey nonsense noise to raise the return price.

I don’t think Harden is leaving and I know that Morey won’t pay the additional it would cost to get him from the Nets.

[Sportfan73]

I feel like thisnis just more Morey nonsense noise to raise the return price.

I don’t think Harden is leaving and I know that Morey won’t pay the additional it would cost to get him from the Nets.

Basically this. I think more than anything Morey wants to threaten that he will take it to the offseason and this is the most obvious/believable rumor to attach to that threat to make it more real

[The Rebel]

While I agree sign and trades for pure cap space usually end up being a 2nd round pick, the 76ers have to send out salary. If the Nets refuse to take Harris or Simmons in the deal then they are going to have to find a way to move 1 of them in a 3 way sign and trade or they are going to have too e both deals for the cap space to sign Harden. It cost the Warriors 3 picks to ceapr the cap space to sign igoudala years ago when the Nuggets said no sign and trade.

July 10, 2013: As part of a 3-team trade, traded by the Denver Nuggets to the Golden State Warriors; the Denver Nuggets traded cash and a 2018 2nd round draft pick (Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk was later selected) to the Utah Jazz; the Golden State Warriors traded a 2018 2nd round draft pick (Thomas Welsh was later selected) to the Denver Nuggets; the Golden State Warriors traded Andris Biedriņš, Richard Jefferson, Brandon Rush, a 2014 1st round draft pick (Rodney Hood was later selected), a 2016 2nd round draft pick (Tyrone Wallace was later selected), a 2017 1st round draft pick (Josh Hart was later selected) and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Alpha Kaba was later selected) to the Utah Jazz; the Utah Jazz traded Randy Foye to the Denver Nuggets; and the Utah Jazz traded Kevin Murphy to the Golden State Warriors.

So for Denver it was:
Denver out: Iguodala S&T cash and 2018 2nd
Denver in: Randy Foye and 2018 2nd

I think that looks right in line with what I have been saying.

Now, if Philly is paying a team to take unwanted salary, that would cost whatever the unwanted salary costs to dump. But for S&T a player even to a rival, teams do it cheap often.

Context is key. If I'm remembering 8.5 years ago correctly, the Nuggets were entering a rebuild cycle, wanted to cut costs and had no intent on keeping Iggy.

That's very different than the Nets having title asperations and every intent on keeping the Big 3 together.

You're right context is key, and you are not even close on what the Nuggets were trying to do. The literally fired George Karl the week before Igoudala left, at least partially due to Karl not getting past the 1st round.

The Nuggets were intent on keeping Iggy, that is why they refused to sign and trade him, they had no interest in letting him go, especially not to the Warriors.

After Igoudala left and Gallo decided to take some weird treatment instead of having knee surgery the Nuggets were forced into a bad year, but that was never the plan that year.

[Snakebites]

I mean, yeah, Morey probably is putting this out there in the hopes that rival teams will be convinced he doesn't have to move Simmons right now and put their best offers forward.

But...I also think Morey really is willing to let the deadline pass.

Whether or not trading for Harden is a real possibility, and whether or not Morey considers it realistic...is another matter entirely. I have no idea.

[Texas Chuck]

I think every rumor means exactly what suits my preconceived personal take. I've thought from the jump that Morey wasn't going to take a crap offer just to be done with this and I can definitely interpret this report to match up with that perfectly.

If I thought he was willing to take the first decent offer than came and there just hasn't been one, I'd view this as public negotiating to up the bid.

If I thought he never had any intention of trading him because like some posters I just want to teach players that they must shut up and play for the team that has their rights no matter what(while never once having an issue of a team signing say Blake Griffin to a deal just so they can trade him...) then this fits that.

[The Rebel]

So for Denver it was:
Denver out: Iguodala S&T cash and 2018 2nd
Denver in: Randy Foye and 2018 2nd

I think that looks right in line with what I have been saying.

Now, if Philly is paying a team to take unwanted salary, that would cost whatever the unwanted salary costs to dump. But for S&T a player even to a rival, teams do it cheap often.

Context is key. If I'm remembering 8.5 years ago correctly, the Nuggets were entering a rebuild cycle, wanted to cut costs and had no intent on keeping Iggy.

That's very different than the Nets having title asperations and every intent on keeping the Big 3 together.

The big difference is that GS first arranged enough cap space to just outright sign Iggy, using picks to dump Biendrins and Jefferson into Utah's cap space. (this was during the moratorium so it was agreed to but not official) Then Denver had a choice of having Iggy just leave as a UFA or making a S&T deal for small incentive, so they took the small incentive and it all got folded in together into a 3-way deal.

If Philly were to arrange enough cap space to just outright sign Harden then the Nets would probably agree to a S&T option that gives them only a minor incentive as a slight improvement. However that would take moving Simmons and Harris outright from Philly, which would be really tough. If Philly's options are S&T or no Harden than the Nets have much more leverage. (though if the Nets options are S&T to Philly or Harden walks to team C then the Nets don't have much more leverage)

I actually went and looked up the deal

the Warriors traded Biedrens, Rush, Jefferson, along with 2 1st round picks, and 3 2nd round picks for Kevin Murphy and Igoudala.

The Jazz traded Kevin Murphy (immediately waived) and Randy Foye (signed and traded), for Biedrens, Jefferson, Rush, 2 1st round picks, 2 2nd round picks from the Warriors, and 1 2nd round pick from the Nuggets

The Nuggets traded Igoudala, cash, and a 2nd round pick for Foye and a 2nd round pick.

The Nuggets only got involved after the Warriors and Jazz deal was announced, they agreed with Foye on a deal after Igoudala and the Warriors took so long to announce he was going there, so they finally agreed to the 3 way sign and trade deal to get Foye and giving the Jazz some cash to do it.

[Sportfan73]

I think every rumor means exactly what suits my preconceived personal take. I've thought from the jump that Morey wasn't going to take a crap offer just to be done with this and I can definitely interpret this report to match up with that perfectly.

If I thought he was willing to take the first decent offer than came and there just hasn't been one, I'd view this as public negotiating to up the bid.

If I thought he never had any intention of trading him because like some posters I just want to teach players that they must shut up and play for the team that has their rights no matter what(while never once having an issue of a team signing say Blake Griffin to a deal just so they can trade him...) then this fits that.

I think more than anything it’s a perfect rumor to align with the threat that he will hold him to the offseason. With how many different outlets reported it today it seems so obviously leaked because they want to squeeze the last like 33% or whatever out of negotiations

[Slim Charless]

Harden ain't happening. Kyrie probably could though. Both teams would be wise to pull the trigger on that

[Fencer reregistered]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/no-matter-how-badly-the-76ers-might-want-james-harden-actually-completing-a-deal-would-be-extremely-difficult/ reviews the forbiddingly difficult cap arithmetic for Harden/Philly scenarios.

[HartfordWhalers]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/no-matter-how-badly-the-76ers-might-want-james-harden-actually-completing-a-deal-would-be-extremely-difficult/ reviews the forbiddingly difficult cap arithmetic for Harden/Philly scenarios.

Not sure why he has the Sixers cutting 4 young players making basically the vet min to then need to sign new ones needing similar; although it does make it look like they need a lot more bodies.

I think a lot better math was done here https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2022/01/19/how-the-sixers-could-pull-off-a-ben-simmonsjames-harden-sign-and-trade/?sh=23ca1d5b87b7

For what its worth here follows my accounting of the question:

Tobias Harris $37,633,050
Ben Simmons $35,448,672 TRADED
Joel Embiid $33,616,770
Danny Green $10,000,000 Non GTD needs to be let go
Seth Curry $8,496,653
Furkan Korkmaz $5,000,000
Georges Niang $3,465,000
Matisse Thybulle $4,379,527
Tyrese Maxey $2,726,880
Jaden Springer $2,125,200
Shake Milton $1,997,718 Non GTD but kept here
Andre Drummond Free agent
Paul Reed Jr $1,782,621 Non GTD but kept here
Isaiah Joe $1,782,621 Non GTD but kept here
Charles Bassey $1,563,518 Non GTD but kept here (technically ~75k gtd after that big skirmish over it)

Add Harden at 105% his old salary $46,526,382.00

Totals to $151,095,940. but with only 13 players.

The hard cap projects at $151,583,000, so without any other move it isn't doable.

In theory cutting all 4 nongtd and getting 6 undrafted/second round rookies works but that doesn't feel realistic.

Instead, it works nicely and easily if Korkmaz was traded, as there isn't much need for breathing room.
Ben outgoing, Green cut, Korkmaz outgoing. Not crazy.

What neither of those did is include a potential cap hold for Philly's 1st rounder this offseason.
As an example, rookie scale where they are right now at 21 is $2,252,400. And most picks go for 20% more than scale.

So, I would have the full complete list:
1) Simmons outgoing
2) Green cut
3) Korkmaz outgoing
4) And 2022 draft pick stashed or traded or Jayden Springer traded.

{And Nets to play along}

[zimpy27]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/no-matter-how-badly-the-76ers-might-want-james-harden-actually-completing-a-deal-would-be-extremely-difficult/ reviews the forbiddingly difficult cap arithmetic for Harden/Philly scenarios.

Not sure why he has the Sixers cutting 4 young players making basically the vet min to then need to sign new ones needing similar; although it does make it look like they need a lot more bodies.

I think a lot better math was done here https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2022/01/19/how-the-sixers-could-pull-off-a-ben-simmonsjames-harden-sign-and-trade/?sh=23ca1d5b87b7

For what its worth here follows my accounting of the question:

Tobias Harris $37,633,050
Ben Simmons $35,448,672 TRADED
Joel Embiid $33,616,770
Danny Green $10,000,000 Non GTD needs to be let go
Seth Curry $8,496,653
Furkan Korkmaz $5,000,000
Georges Niang $3,465,000
Matisse Thybulle $4,379,527
Tyrese Maxey $2,726,880
Jaden Springer $2,125,200
Shake Milton $1,997,718 Non GTD but kept here
Andre Drummond Free agent
Paul Reed Jr $1,782,621 Non GTD but kept here
Isaiah Joe $1,782,621 Non GTD but kept here
Charles Bassey $1,563,518 Non GTD but kept here (technically ~75k gtd after that big skirmish over it)

Add Harden at 105% his old salary $46,526,382.00

Totals to $151,095,940. but with only 13 players.

The hard cap projects at $151,583,000, so without any other move it isn't doable.

In theory cutting all 4 nongtd and getting 6 undrafted/second round rookies works but that doesn't feel realistic.

Instead, it works nicely and easily if Korkmaz was traded, as there isn't much need for breathing room.
Ben outgoing, Green cut, Korkmaz outgoing. Not crazy.

What neither of those did is include a potential cap hold for Philly's 1st rounder this offseason.
As an example, rookie scale where they are right now at 21 is $2,252,400. And most picks go for 20% more than scale.

So, I would have the full complete list:
1) Simmons outgoing
2) Green cut
3) Korkmaz outgoing
4) And 2022 draft pick stashed or traded or Jayden Springer traded.

{And Nets to play along}

Is Simmons+Korkmaz the matching salary for Harden in a trade?

Isn't Simmons+Korkmaz an overpay for a SnT?

[Tukkerwolf]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/no-matter-how-badly-the-76ers-might-want-james-harden-actually-completing-a-deal-would-be-extremely-difficult/ reviews the forbiddingly difficult cap arithmetic for Harden/Philly scenarios.

Not sure why he has the Sixers cutting 4 young players making basically the vet min to then need to sign new ones needing similar; although it does make it look like they need a lot more bodies.

I think a lot better math was done here https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2022/01/19/how-the-sixers-could-pull-off-a-ben-simmonsjames-harden-sign-and-trade/?sh=23ca1d5b87b7

For what its worth here follows my accounting of the question:

Tobias Harris $37,633,050
Ben Simmons $35,448,672 TRADED
Joel Embiid $33,616,770
Danny Green $10,000,000 Non GTD needs to be let go
Seth Curry $8,496,653
Furkan Korkmaz $5,000,000
Georges Niang $3,465,000
Matisse Thybulle $4,379,527
Tyrese Maxey $2,726,880
Jaden Springer $2,125,200
Shake Milton $1,997,718 Non GTD but kept here
Andre Drummond Free agent
Paul Reed Jr $1,782,621 Non GTD but kept here
Isaiah Joe $1,782,621 Non GTD but kept here
Charles Bassey $1,563,518 Non GTD but kept here (technically ~75k gtd after that big skirmish over it)

Add Harden at 105% his old salary $46,526,382.00

Totals to $151,095,940. but with only 13 players.

The hard cap projects at $151,583,000, so without any other move it isn't doable.

In theory cutting all 4 nongtd and getting 6 undrafted/second round rookies works but that doesn't feel realistic.

Instead, it works nicely and easily if Korkmaz was traded, as there isn't much need for breathing room.
Ben outgoing, Green cut, Korkmaz outgoing. Not crazy.

What neither of those did is include a potential cap hold for Philly's 1st rounder this offseason.
As an example, rookie scale where they are right now at 21 is $2,252,400. And most picks go for 20% more than scale.

So, I would have the full complete list:
1) Simmons outgoing
2) Green cut
3) Korkmaz outgoing
4) And 2022 draft pick stashed or traded or Jayden Springer traded.

{And Nets to play along}

Is Simmons+Korkmaz the matching salary for Harden in a trade?

Isn't Simmons+Korkmaz an overpay for a SnT?

Well, signing isn't a realistic option, so even though it's a S&T, it should be compared to trades like Simmons for Fox.

[zimpy27]

Not sure why he has the Sixers cutting 4 young players making basically the vet min to then need to sign new ones needing similar; although it does make it look like they need a lot more bodies.

I think a lot better math was done here https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2022/01/19/how-the-sixers-could-pull-off-a-ben-simmonsjames-harden-sign-and-trade/?sh=23ca1d5b87b7

For what its worth here follows my accounting of the question:

Tobias Harris $37,633,050
Ben Simmons $35,448,672 TRADED
Joel Embiid $33,616,770
Danny Green $10,000,000 Non GTD needs to be let go
Seth Curry $8,496,653
Furkan Korkmaz $5,000,000
Georges Niang $3,465,000
Matisse Thybulle $4,379,527
Tyrese Maxey $2,726,880
Jaden Springer $2,125,200
Shake Milton $1,997,718 Non GTD but kept here
Andre Drummond Free agent
Paul Reed Jr $1,782,621 Non GTD but kept here
Isaiah Joe $1,782,621 Non GTD but kept here
Charles Bassey $1,563,518 Non GTD but kept here (technically ~75k gtd after that big skirmish over it)

Add Harden at 105% his old salary $46,526,382.00

Totals to $151,095,940. but with only 13 players.

The hard cap projects at $151,583,000, so without any other move it isn't doable.

In theory cutting all 4 nongtd and getting 6 undrafted/second round rookies works but that doesn't feel realistic.

Instead, it works nicely and easily if Korkmaz was traded, as there isn't much need for breathing room.
Ben outgoing, Green cut, Korkmaz outgoing. Not crazy.

What neither of those did is include a potential cap hold for Philly's 1st rounder this offseason.
As an example, rookie scale where they are right now at 21 is $2,252,400. And most picks go for 20% more than scale.

So, I would have the full complete list:
1) Simmons outgoing
2) Green cut
3) Korkmaz outgoing
4) And 2022 draft pick stashed or traded or Jayden Springer traded.

{And Nets to play along}

Is Simmons+Korkmaz the matching salary for Harden in a trade?

Isn't Simmons+Korkmaz an overpay for a SnT?

Well, signing isn't a realistic option, so even though it's a S&T, it should be compared to trades like Simmons for Fox.

Why not try trade Ben for something and trade Harris for Harden?

[Tukkerwolf]

Is Simmons+Korkmaz the matching salary for Harden in a trade?

Isn't Simmons+Korkmaz an overpay for a SnT?

Well, signing isn't a realistic option, so even though it's a S&T, it should be compared to trades like Simmons for Fox.

Why not try trade Ben for something and trade Harris for Harden?

Because that is not really enticing for Brooklyn? The decision between a disgruntled Harden and Simmons+Korkmaz is a tough one, choosing between a disgruntled Harden and Harris is not that hard to me.
Again, Harden doesn't have many options if he wants to leave: SAS, DET, ... So for Brooklyn to cooperate with a S&T they really need an incentive.

[zimpy27]

Well, signing isn't a realistic option, so even though it's a S&T, it should be compared to trades like Simmons for Fox.

Why not try trade Ben for something and trade Harris for Harden?

Because that is not really enticing for Brooklyn? The decision between a disgruntled Harden and Simmons+Korkmaz is a tough one, choosing between a disgruntled Harden and Harris is not that hard to me.
Again, Harden doesn't have many options if he wants to leave: SAS, DET, ... So for Brooklyn to cooperate with a S&T they really need an incentive.

Well if Brooklyn has power like that then Philly needs to make a move to take that power away.

There best chance is to trade Harris+Simmons for expiring pieces that allows sixers to sign Harden outright

[mademan]

Why not try trade Ben for something and trade Harris for Harden?

Because that is not really enticing for Brooklyn? The decision between a disgruntled Harden and Simmons+Korkmaz is a tough one, choosing between a disgruntled Harden and Harris is not that hard to me.
Again, Harden doesn't have many options if he wants to leave: SAS, DET, ... So for Brooklyn to cooperate with a S&T they really need an incentive.

Well if Brooklyn has power like that then Philly needs to make a move to take that power away.

There best chance is to trade Harris+Simmons for expiring pieces that allows sixers to sign Harden outright

You'd basically need to trade Harris right now for expiring's, you'd absolutely have to pay for it and I dont even really see any big expirings out there. Harris is a bad contract, but he's one of the few playable forwards the Sixers have. How much do the Sixers want to pay to make themselves worse this season to possibly put themselves in the position to sign Harden outright this summer?

I cant imagine any GM would make that kind of gamble.

[zimpy27]

Because that is not really enticing for Brooklyn? The decision between a disgruntled Harden and Simmons+Korkmaz is a tough one, choosing between a disgruntled Harden and Harris is not that hard to me.
Again, Harden doesn't have many options if he wants to leave: SAS, DET, ... So for Brooklyn to cooperate with a S&T they really need an incentive.

Well if Brooklyn has power like that then Philly needs to make a move to take that power away.

There best chance is to trade Harris+Simmons for expiring pieces that allows sixers to sign Harden outright

You'd basically need to trade Harris right now for expiring's, you'd absolutely have to pay for it and I dont even really see any big expirings out there. Harris is a bad contract, but he's one of the few playable forwards the Sixers have. How much do the Sixers want to pay to make themselves worse this season to possibly put themselves in the position to sign Harden outright this summer?

I cant imagine any GM would make that kind of gamble.

Well you'd move Harris and Simmons together

[mademan]

Well if Brooklyn has power like that then Philly needs to make a move to take that power away.

There best chance is to trade Harris+Simmons for expiring pieces that allows sixers to sign Harden outright

You'd basically need to trade Harris right now for expiring's, you'd absolutely have to pay for it and I dont even really see any big expirings out there. Harris is a bad contract, but he's one of the few playable forwards the Sixers have. How much do the Sixers want to pay to make themselves worse this season to possibly put themselves in the position to sign Harden outright this summer?

I cant imagine any GM would make that kind of gamble.

Well you'd move Harris and Simmons together

If Morey can engineer a 70+million dollar salary trade that puts them in position to be able to sign Harden outright this summer without competely destroying one of the best teams in the East within the next 3 weeks before the deadline, i will eat my hat.

I just dont like the idea of diluting a Ben Simmons trade, using those assets to dump Harris all for the hope that Harden not only wants to leave BRK but also wants to go to Philly.

[thenbaman]

You'd basically need to trade Harris right now for expiring's, you'd absolutely have to pay for it and I dont even really see any big expirings out there. Harris is a bad contract, but he's one of the few playable forwards the Sixers have. How much do the Sixers want to pay to make themselves worse this season to possibly put themselves in the position to sign Harden outright this summer?

I cant imagine any GM would make that kind of gamble.

Well you'd move Harris and Simmons together

If Morey can engineer a 70+million dollar salary trade that puts them in position to be able to sign Harden outright this summer without competely destroying one of the best teams in the East within the next 3 weeks before the deadline, i will eat my hat.

I just dont like the idea of diluting a Ben Simmons trade, using those assets to dump Harris all for the hope that Harden not only wants to leave BRK but also wants to go to Philly.

I'm sure morey already knows where harden wants to end up.