Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0

[rpa]

Do we have a list of reported Ben Simmons offers?

I saw these:

Detroit - Jerami Grant, Saddiq Bey, Kelly Olynyk, and a first-round pick. Depending on protection that's a meh to me, but if unprotected and the next 2 years I'd do it. Cade, Simmons and a top 4 rookie is probably still not making the playoffs next year.

Pels - Some firsts, some swaps?

well that one is BS because the Pistons literally can't trade a 1st until 2029 (which isn't allowed yet) due to the tough protections they owe to OKC. Maybe on draft night they might do it, but it has no legs as a deadline deal.

Couldn't they just trade unprotected swap rights with the Sixers instead?

Sixers currently sitting at 21st and the Pistons at 2nd. Does the 21st pick even move you from #3 to #2 in most drafts (point being that the difference in value between #21 + #2 and just #2 is pretty minimal)

[shangrila]

Do we have a list of reported Ben Simmons offers?

I saw these:

Detroit - Jerami Grant, Saddiq Bey, Kelly Olynyk, and a first-round pick. Depending on protection that's a meh to me, but if unprotected and the next 2 years I'd do it. Cade, Simmons and a top 4 rookie is probably still not making the playoffs next year.

Pels - Some firsts, some swaps?

well that one is BS because the Pistons literally can't trade a 1st until 2029 (which isn't allowed yet) due to the tough protections they owe to OKC. Maybe on draft night they might do it, but it has no legs as a deadline deal.

Couldn't they just trade unprotected swap rights with the Sixers instead?

Sixers currently sitting at 21st and the Pistons at 2nd. Does the 21st pick even move you from #3 to #2 in most drafts (point being that the difference in value between #21 + #2 and just #2 is pretty minimal)

So the idea is the Pistons should give up Grant, Bey, Olynyk and a top 5 pick for Simmons?

I'd pass on that if I were them.

[Ell Curry]

So then I don't understand why people are so mad at Morey? If we don't know what offer he's turned down then how do you even get to having a strong take on him asking for too much? There's basically 4 variables to judging this deal:

1 - What was Philly offered that they turned down
2 - What does Philly eventually get
3 - How it actually works out (media/fans and GMs get trades wrong all the time, if say Haliburton is the main piece, is he a fringe all-star in 2 years or just a fine #3/#4 two way type?)

and we don't even have a sense of what 1 is, never mind 2 or 3.

[gambitx777]

So then I don't understand why people are so mad at Morey? If we don't know what offer he's turned down then how do you even get to having a strong take on him asking for too much? There's basically 4 variables to judging this deal:

1 - What was Philly offered that they turned down
2 - What does Philly eventually get
3 - How it actually works out (media/fans and GMs get trades wrong all the time, if say Haliburton is the main piece, is he a fringe all-star in 2 years or just a fine #3/#4 two way type?)

and we don't even have a sense of what 1 is, never mind 2 or 3.

We have reports of what was offered and no one's come out and said no that didn't happen. So chances are those offers were floated and were infact turned down

We heard SGA and a pick turned down
We head Indy offered brogdon plus and was turned down.
We heard multiple picks from multiple teams were turned down.
We heard grant, bey and olynk and a pick were turned down.
We heard multiple offers from sac were turned down.


Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[K_chile22]

Still don't know how much to buy Fischer, but if you do, this is a big one.

Read on Twitter

?t=iF3d8kxGznTzhi1OydX2Ew&s=19

Harden has apparently:

Been whispering to people that he's open to leaving after this year

Has not enjoyed living in BKN

Is quite annoyed with Kyrie

Not happy with Nash's closing lineups always changing (Harden has always been a control freak who wants to know what to expect)

[MoneyTalks41890]

Apparently Grant wants a big extension this summer and has a team list. That throws cold water on the value I’d give up if I’m a suitor. He’s not worth upwards of 20 per year. He’s best as a fourth option, a very good one, but that’s the last time he was really efficient.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/265553/Jerami-Grant-Offered-List-Of-Preferred-Trade-Destinations-To-Pistons

[shrink]

Apparently Grant wants a big extension this summer and has a team list. That throws cold water on the value I’d give up if I’m a suitor. He’s not worth upwards of 20 per year. He’s best as a fourth option, a very good one, but that’s the last time he was really efficient.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/265553/Jerami-Grant-Offered-List-Of-Preferred-Trade-Destinations-To-Pistons

I truly wonder if his list is contenders, or lottery teams where he can “star?”

[psman2]

Apparently Grant wants a big extension this summer and has a team list. That throws cold water on the value I’d give up if I’m a suitor. He’s not worth upwards of 20 per year. He’s best as a fourth option, a very good one, but that’s the last time he was really efficient.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/265553/Jerami-Grant-Offered-List-Of-Preferred-Trade-Destinations-To-Pistons

Yep...I am sure a bunch of teams would be interested in adding the Denver/OKC version of Grant but would want to pay the trade value and contract that is reflective of that quality of player as the 4/5 best starter. But Det doesn't want to sell him at his likely going rate and teams are going to be gun shy trading big value for him just to hand him a contract that instantly makes he a negative contract guy. The "LIST" is only going to hurt his value now too, if your team is not on the list do you make a offering knowing that he might be only a rental. If the price is low enough sure, but then does Det take that low price. It's a trade value death spiral.

[Troubadour]

Latest from Raptor Land: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article/raptors-optimistic-core-look-add-pieces-trade-deadline/

The club has essentially ruled out trading any of who they define as their core -- Fred VanVleet, Pascal Siakam, OG Anunoby and Scottie Barnes aren’t going anywhere next month.

Instead, the goal is to scour the market for pieces that can augment that group now and in the near future.

The Raptors are actively gauging the potential return if they attach future assets -- a first-round pick at minimum -- to their one ‘no-brainer’ trade chip: Goran Dragic’s expiring $19.4 million contract.

----

They’re pleased with the 23-year-old Trent Jr. so far and have taken note in recent weeks that Chris Boucher seems to have fully grasped that his role as a rim-runner, shot blocker, possession extender and occasional three-point shooter off the bench.

Boucher’s expiring $7-million contract could be useful in trade talks, but the Raptors won’t give up on the Bird rights they hold for nothing. They also hold out hope that Achiuwa can continue to grow in increments in his second NBA season. There’s no rush to move his rookie deal.

But picks, Dragic’s deal, second-year guard Malachi Flynn and nearly anyone else on the roster will like be options to add to deals.

Toronto would love to add a shot-blocking, rim-running big like Indiana’s Myles Turner, but so would several teams.

Does an expiring deal, a future pick and some bits and pieces make that happen? That seems optimistic. The Raptors aren’t going to trade Anunoby for him.

Would San Antonio be willing to part with former Raptor Jakob Poeltl, who can’t shoot but screens wonderfully and has a presence at the rim on both ends while being one of the better switching seven-footers out there. Would they add in veteran sharpshooter Doug McDermott? Both are under contract; it wouldn’t be too hard to make the money work.

[Ell Curry]

So then I don't understand why people are so mad at Morey? If we don't know what offer he's turned down then how do you even get to having a strong take on him asking for too much? There's basically 4 variables to judging this deal:

1 - What was Philly offered that they turned down
2 - What does Philly eventually get
3 - How it actually works out (media/fans and GMs get trades wrong all the time, if say Haliburton is the main piece, is he a fringe all-star in 2 years or just a fine #3/#4 two way type?)

and we don't even have a sense of what 1 is, never mind 2 or 3.

We have reports of what was offered and no one's come out and said no that didn't happen. So chances are those offers were floated and were infact turned down

We heard SGA and a pick turned down
We head Indy offered brogdon plus and was turned down.
We heard multiple picks from multiple teams were turned down.
We heard grant, bey and olynk and a pick were turned down.
We heard multiple offers from sac were turned down.


Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

I'd be shocked if they turned down SGA straight up, or if OKC offered it! But maybe that's Canadian bias.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Spoiler:

So then I don't understand why people are so mad at Morey? If we don't know what offer he's turned down then how do you even get to having a strong take on him asking for too much? There's basically 4 variables to judging this deal:

1 - What was Philly offered that they turned down
2 - What does Philly eventually get
3 - How it actually works out (media/fans and GMs get trades wrong all the time, if say Haliburton is the main piece, is he a fringe all-star in 2 years or just a fine #3/#4 two way type?)

and we don't even have a sense of what 1 is, never mind 2 or 3.

We have reports of what was offered and no one's come out and said no that didn't happen. So chances are those offers were floated and were infact turned down

We heard SGA and a pick turned down
We head Indy offered brogdon plus and was turned down.
We heard multiple picks from multiple teams were turned down.
We heard grant, bey and olynk and a pick were turned down.
We heard multiple offers from sac were turned down.


Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

I'd be shocked if they turned down SGA straight up, or if OKC offered it! But maybe that's Canadian bias.

OKC never offered it. The rumor came from a Sixers blog.

[Ell Curry]

Toronto would love to add a shot-blocking, rim-running big like Indiana’s Myles Turner, but so would several teams.

Does an expiring deal, a future pick and some bits and pieces make that happen? That seems optimistic. The Raptors aren’t going to trade Anunoby for him.

So maybe this template:

Indiana: Dragic, Raptors lotto protected 1st, (Asset from team X), Flynn
Toronto: Turner, 6-8M in useless expiring, Indy minimum guy
Team X: Boucher

Works with Chicago and Derrick Jones and maybe Chicago's #27 to Indy and next year's Indy 2nd rounder to Chicago? Probably some other options too. Horton-Tucker and the Pacers send Holliday to the Lakers who can throw out AD-Boucher-LeBron-Holliday-Westbrook which is sort of plausible if the new 2 starters are hitting their 3s.

[Ell Curry]

I gotta say I don't see why the Lillard for Simmons deal shouldn't happen. Portland look good with Simons and they have McCollum and Powell, even have some small stretch 5-ish type in Nance. That's about as good a fit as you're gonna get for Simmons. Move Nurkic for someone who can shoot a bit and even though Covington is a fit you probably move him to as he'll want to sign on a contender this summer instead of a Lillard-less Portland I assume, and they can get some small assets for those guys. Spend the MLE on Boucher or another stretch big type, you've got a stew going. Maybe McCollum posts big numbers without Lillard and you move him at some point.

[Scoot McGroot]

Toronto would love to add a shot-blocking, rim-running big like Indiana’s Myles Turner, but so would several teams.

Does an expiring deal, a future pick and some bits and pieces make that happen? That seems optimistic. The Raptors aren’t going to trade Anunoby for him.

So maybe this template:

Indiana: Dragic, Raptors lotto protected 1st, (Asset from team X), Flynn
Toronto: Turner, 6-8M in useless expiring, Indy minimum guy
Team X: Boucher

Works with Chicago and Derrick Jones and maybe Chicago's #27 to Indy and next year's Indy 2nd rounder to Chicago? Probably some other options too. Horton-Tucker and the Pacers send Holliday to the Lakers who can throw out AD-Boucher-LeBron-Holliday-Westbrook which is sort of plausible if the new 2 starters are hitting their 3s.

Seems like the kind of offer that a Indy would be able to get around the draft. Really no need for Indy to jump into the luxury tax to do (just Turner for Dragic gets into the tax…adding Flynn for any minimum guy just makes it worse fiscally). Your other options are just kind of making it worse, too.

[Kilo]

Read on Twitter

Not seeing this posted here - Was it dis-proven already?

[BullyKing]

Read on Twitter

Not seeing this posted here - Was it dis-proven already?

Which of those "lucky" teams are going to step up and pay the price for the right to overpay Grant on his next deal? I say this as someone who had the privileged of watching the Sixers do exactly this in real time with Tobias Harris.

[HartfordWhalers]

Read on Twitter

Not seeing this posted here - Was it dis-proven already?

Haven't listened yet, but Grant trades was an area of his last podcast -- https://player.fm/series/brian-windhorst-the-hoop-collective/injured-bulls-potential-laker-trades (or wherever you get your podcasts)

[Ell Curry]

So maybe this template:

Indiana: Dragic, Raptors lotto protected 1st, (Asset from team X), Flynn
Toronto: Turner, 6-8M in useless expiring, Indy minimum guy
Team X: Boucher

Works with Chicago and Derrick Jones and maybe Chicago's #27 to Indy and next year's Indy 2nd rounder to Chicago? Probably some other options too. Horton-Tucker and the Pacers send Holliday to the Lakers who can throw out AD-Boucher-LeBron-Holliday-Westbrook which is sort of plausible if the new 2 starters are hitting their 3s.

Seems like the kind of offer that a Indy would be able to get around the draft. Really no need for Indy to jump into the luxury tax to do (just Turner for Dragic gets into the tax…adding Flynn for any minimum guy just makes it worse fiscally). Your other options are just kind of making it worse, too.

Oh yeah, if they do this they're definitely getting under the tax in another deal (or this one, maybe OKC gets something or another team under the cap), presumably by moving Craig or Holliday.

I could see Indiana wanting Flynn just because Indy doesn't have one and he might develop into a nice cheap young backup for Brogdon or whoever they eventually end up with starting there in time. Sykes doesn't seem like he's gonna be that guy.

[Scoot McGroot]

So maybe this template:

Indiana: Dragic, Raptors lotto protected 1st, (Asset from team X), Flynn
Toronto: Turner, 6-8M in useless expiring, Indy minimum guy
Team X: Boucher

Works with Chicago and Derrick Jones and maybe Chicago's #27 to Indy and next year's Indy 2nd rounder to Chicago? Probably some other options too. Horton-Tucker and the Pacers send Holliday to the Lakers who can throw out AD-Boucher-LeBron-Holliday-Westbrook which is sort of plausible if the new 2 starters are hitting their 3s.

Seems like the kind of offer that a Indy would be able to get around the draft. Really no need for Indy to jump into the luxury tax to do (just Turner for Dragic gets into the tax…adding Flynn for any minimum guy just makes it worse fiscally). Your other options are just kind of making it worse, too.

Oh yeah, if they do this they're definitely getting under the tax in another deal (or this one, maybe OKC gets something or another team under the cap), presumably by moving Craig or Holliday.

I could see Indiana wanting Flynn just because Indy doesn't have one and he might develop into a nice cheap young backup for Brogdon or whoever they eventually end up with starting there in time. Sykes doesn't seem like he's gonna be that guy.

We also have McConnell, who should return in February/March. But no, I don’t see them making a poor value deal now, to get into the tax, and force themselves to make a poor value deal asap to undo the damage of this one. Just don’t consider this one, and they’re in a better spot.

[HartfordWhalers]

Still don't know how much to buy Fischer

He definitely made his start by reporting everything imaginable, even things that weren't possible or likely or plausible. I've cited this a lot, but he seems to have reigned it in a lot. Some of us are old enough to remember when that same description fit Windhurst, and now I have Windy as one of the more credible national people, he just doesn't need to take slanted stories to press (unless it pleases Lebron).
But back on Fisher, worth pointing out that he also was a blogger for the Sixers, so if you are looking for a slant or angle that isn't without note.