Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0

[Ell Curry]

Seems like the kind of offer that a Indy would be able to get around the draft. Really no need for Indy to jump into the luxury tax to do (just Turner for Dragic gets into the tax…adding Flynn for any minimum guy just makes it worse fiscally). Your other options are just kind of making it worse, too.

Oh yeah, if they do this they're definitely getting under the tax in another deal (or this one, maybe OKC gets something or another team under the cap), presumably by moving Craig or Holliday.

I could see Indiana wanting Flynn just because Indy doesn't have one and he might develop into a nice cheap young backup for Brogdon or whoever they eventually end up with starting there in time. Sykes doesn't seem like he's gonna be that guy.

We also have McConnell, who should return in February/March. But no, I don’t see them making a poor value deal now, to get into the tax, and force themselves to make a poor value deal asap to undo the damage of this one. Just don’t consider this one, and they’re in a better spot.

Could be. The only issue is that if the team trading for Turner isn't 90% sure they can extend him (and his max is 70/3 so and it doesn't seem crazy that he might want to see if he can get 80/3 with a player option on the 4th year on the market for example) then Turner's value goes from 2 playoffs to 1 and so presumably drops down closer to 1 lotto protected first alone.

[CP War Hawks]

Grant apparently thinks he's an NBA star. Yet another clog holding up movement of this trade deadline.

[HartfordWhalers]

Grant apparently thinks he's an NBA star. Yet another clog holding up movement of this trade deadline.

I just don't think this is fair or really related to how trades actually go down.

As an example, last year the trade deadline was March 25th. From Feb 6th to March 17th, it looks like we had 0 trades. And even getting Svi/Diallo type trades 8 days in advance of the deadline feels a bit outlier, often even the small ones wait to see what everyone's last and best and final offer is.

At the very least, I would have blamed Simmons.

The idea that Grant is holding up deals just seems silly to me.

[Resistance]

Read on Twitter

Not seeing this posted here - Was it dis-proven already?

He will be 28 in March, so it would be a good thing to be on a contender and getting paid in the near future than being in a rebuilding situation and getting paid.

Not nearly as glorious to wait until being on a Vet Minimum contract and then seeking to join a contender.

[NYG]

Every trade we will see at the deadline 2.0

Jerami Grant, Josh Jackson and 2024 Sacramento Kings Second Round Draft Pick (currently owned by Detroit) for Marvin Bagley, Tristan Thompson, Davion Mitchell and Lottery Protected 2022 Sacramento Kings First Round Draft Pick (2023 - Top 8 Protected / 2024 - Top 4 Protected / 2025 - Unprotected)

Eric Gordon for Ricky Rubio and 2022 San Antonio Spurs Second Round Draft Pick

Kyle Anderson for Robert Covington and 2022 Portland Trail Blazers Second Round Draft Pick

Danilo Gallinari and 2022 Conditional Charlotte Hornets First Round Draft Pick for Derrick Favors and Kenrich Williams

Dennis Schroder to Dallas Mavericks (into TPE)

Christian Wood and David Nwaba for Mason Plumlee and P.J. Washington

Caris LeVert and Torrey Craig for Thomas Bryant and Kyle Kuzma

Serge Ibaka, 2022 Los Angeles Clippers Second Round Draft Pick and 2025 Detroit Pistons Second Round Draft Pick to Oklahoma City Thunder

Josh Okogie and 2022 Minnesota Timberwolves Second Round Draft Pick for Paul Millsap and Nic Claxton

Terrance Ross for Joe Ingles

DeAndre Jordan and Kendrick Nunn for Chris Boucher

Josh Hart for Talen Horton-Tucker, Kent Bazemore, 2023 Chicago Bulls Second Round Draft Pick and 2023 Los Angeles Lakers Second Round Draft Pick

Thaddeus Young for Jalen Smith and Dario Saric

Justise Winslow and Nicolas Batum for Coby White

Udoka Azubuike to Orlando Magic (into TPE)

Donte DiVincenzo to Dallas Mavericks (into TPE)

Furkan Korkmaz and Jaden Springer to New Orleans Pelicans (into TPE)

Semi Ojeleye and Cash to Sacramento Kings (into TPE)

Rodney Hood and Cash to Washington Wizards (into TPE)

Things I think...

1. Jerami Grant will be the prize of the deadline and desperate Kings will buy hard if it means not really scraping their core with the Clippers and Blazers hurt.

2. Cap savings moves will surprise us a bit and be more of a priority than we realize while disappointing fans of tax teams.

3. Christian Wood isn't as valuable as we think, but I also think P.J. Washington could be developed into a better player than Wood that better contributes to winning.

4. The Grizzlies don't plan on paying Kyle Anderson (look at 2022 UFA's, he's going to get paid) and will see what they can get at the deadline.

5. Eric Gordon will be a significant get at the deadline if it breaks with the above being the biggest trades we see which is why I included the Spurs second.

6. A lot of these guys would/could be bought out so Indy fans pointing out Thomas Bryant is their 5th center, the expiring contract is built into the trade's value so he would likely be bought out and they would just accept the savings beyond this season.

[Dadouv47]

Every trade we will see at the deadline 2.0

Jerami Grant, Josh Jackson and 2024 Sacramento Kings Second Round Draft Pick (currently owned by Detroit) for Marvin Bagley, Tristan Thompson, Davion Mitchell and Lottery Protected 2022 Sacramento Kings First Round Draft Pick (2023 - Top 8 Protected / 2024 - Top 4 Protected / 2025 - Unprotected)

Eric Gordon for Ricky Rubio and 2022 San Antonio Spurs Second Round Draft Pick

Kyle Anderson for Robert Covington and 2022 Portland Trail Blazers Second Round Draft Pick

Danilo Gallinari and 2022 Conditional Charlotte Hornets First Round Draft Pick for Derrick Favors and Kenrich Williams

Dennis Schroder to Dallas Mavericks (into TPE)

Christian Wood and David Nwaba for Mason Plumlee and P.J. Washington

Caris LeVert and Torrey Craig for Thomas Bryant and Kyle Kuzma

Serge Ibaka, 2022 Los Angeles Clippers Second Round Draft Pick and 2025 Detroit Pistons Second Round Draft Pick to Oklahoma City Thunder

Josh Okogie and 2022 Minnesota Timberwolves Second Round Draft Pick for Paul Millsap and Nic Claxton

Terrance Ross for Joe Ingles

DeAndre Jordan and Kendrick Nunn for Chris Boucher

Josh Hart for Talen Horton-Tucker, Kent Bazemore, 2023 Chicago Bulls Second Round Draft Pick and 2023 Los Angeles Lakers Second Round Draft Pick

Thaddeus Young for Jalen Smith and Dario Saric

Justise Winslow and Nicolas Batum for Coby White

Udoka Azubuike to Orlando Magic (into TPE)

Donte DiVincenzo to Dallas Mavericks (into TPE)

Furkan Korkmaz and Jaden Springer to New Orleans Pelicans (into TPE)

Semi Ojeleye and Cash to Sacramento Kings (into TPE)

Rodney Hood and Cash to Washington Wizards (into TPE)

Things I think...

1. Jerami Grant will be the prize of the deadline and desperate Kings will buy hard if it means not really scraping their core with the Clippers and Blazers hurt.

2. Cap savings moves will surprise us a bit and be more of a priority than we realize while disappointing fans of tax teams.

3. Christian Wood isn't as valuable as we think, but I also think P.J. Washington could be developed into a better player than Wood that better contributes to winning.

4. The Grizzlies don't plan on paying Kyle Anderson (look at 2022 UFA's, he's going to get paid) and will see what they can get at the deadline.

5. Eric Gordon will be a significant get at the deadline if it breaks with the above being the biggest trades we see which is why I included the Spurs second.

6. A lot of these guys would/could be bought out so Indy fans pointing out Thomas Bryant is their 5th center, the expiring contract is built into the trade's value so he would likely be bought out and they would just accept the savings beyond this season.

No Covington/Nurkic trade?
Think Houston can get a bit more value for Gordon.
I really like Kenrich Williams but think the fit is bad in Atlanta (doubt we trade him anyway)
Grant a bit overpaid here...would rather send that package to get Sabonis.

[raleigh]

Read on Twitter

Not seeing this posted here - Was it dis-proven already?

This is fake.

[K_chile22]

Read on Twitter

Not seeing this posted here - Was it dis-proven already?

This is fake.

Yeah I listened to the pod and don't remember a list actually being spelled out like that

[raleigh]

Yeah I listened to the pod and don't remember a list actually being spelled out like that

Same.

Also, I have never heard of an Oentral before. Is it a portmanteau of Oedipus and central?

[ejftw]

Might belong here, might not, but man, I love how Luke Kennard was called a horrible deal while guys like Harris, Robinson, Bertans weren't at first. Yet, Luke is hands down the best of that foursome and just scored 7 points in 8 seconds, including a logo three and four point play to secure a 35 point road comeback.

Chuck was the only Luke believer here, and man, if Dallas thought like him and got him, he'd be perfect for Luka.

[Texas Chuck]

Yeah I listened to the pod and don't remember a list actually being spelled out like that

Same.

Also, I have never heard of an Oentral before. Is it a portmanteau of Oedipus and central?

I don't know but somebody posting a fake account is all worthwhile for your outstanding usage of portmanteau, a beautiful word that doesn't get used enough.

[Texas Chuck]

Chuck was the only Luke believer here, and man, if Dallas thought like him and got him, he'd be perfect for Luka.

Aw screw Kennard. He's supposed to be playing terrible defense and in a season-long shooting slump so I justify a trade to Dallas. But nah he's holding his own on the defense end, providing secondary playmaking, cut his turnovers down significantly, and is shooting just as well as ever.

He's not cooperating. If he was playing poorly with the superstars hurt, he'd be ripe for poaching.

[Scoot McGroot]

Oh yeah, if they do this they're definitely getting under the tax in another deal (or this one, maybe OKC gets something or another team under the cap), presumably by moving Craig or Holliday.

I could see Indiana wanting Flynn just because Indy doesn't have one and he might develop into a nice cheap young backup for Brogdon or whoever they eventually end up with starting there in time. Sykes doesn't seem like he's gonna be that guy.

We also have McConnell, who should return in February/March. But no, I don’t see them making a poor value deal now, to get into the tax, and force themselves to make a poor value deal asap to undo the damage of this one. Just don’t consider this one, and they’re in a better spot.

Could be. The only issue is that if the team trading for Turner isn't 90% sure they can extend him (and his max is 70/3 so and it doesn't seem crazy that he might want to see if he can get 80/3 with a player option on the 4th year on the market for example) then Turner's value goes from 2 playoffs to 1 and so presumably drops down closer to 1 lotto protected first alone.

Do you mean that they would then want to deal Turner for value next year if he won’t extend? Otherwise, they would still have two playoffs for him to play.

As for an extension, it would be better for a team to trade for him now and extend him this offseason rather than trade for him in the offseason and then try to extend him. Trading for him now allows for the 6 month waiting period to extend him outside of extend and trade limitations, and try and just extend him on a veteran extension during the offseason. If they trade for him in July, they would be limited to extend and trade rules until January of next season before being freed up to offer a standard extension with longer years and higher raises.

[Scoot McGroot]

Grant apparently thinks he's an NBA star. Yet another clog holding up movement of this trade deadline.

I just don't think this is fair or really related to how trades actually go down.

As an example, last year the trade deadline was March 25th. From Feb 6th to March 17th, it looks like we had 0 trades. And even getting Svi/Diallo type trades 8 days in advance of the deadline feels a bit outlier, often even the small ones wait to see what everyone's last and best and final offer is.

At the very least, I would have blamed Simmons.

The idea that Grant is holding up deals just seems silly to me.

Yup. Deadlines spur action, and teams tend to think that the highest offers come at the deadline and will wait until then for last and best.

[Asif16]

Michael Grange (Toronto Beat Reporter)......says the Raptors are actively using the Dragic + 1st combo package to see the best possible player available they can get back in the trade.

Also mentions that Malachi Flynn is also available to be included for better offers. Future picks of all kind as well.

Whats out there?

[Ell Curry]

We also have McConnell, who should return in February/March. But no, I don’t see them making a poor value deal now, to get into the tax, and force themselves to make a poor value deal asap to undo the damage of this one. Just don’t consider this one, and they’re in a better spot.

Could be. The only issue is that if the team trading for Turner isn't 90% sure they can extend him (and his max is 70/3 so and it doesn't seem crazy that he might want to see if he can get 80/3 with a player option on the 4th year on the market for example) then Turner's value goes from 2 playoffs to 1 and so presumably drops down closer to 1 lotto protected first alone.

Do you mean that they would then want to deal Turner for value next year if he won’t extend? Otherwise, they would still have two playoffs for him to play.

As for an extension, it would be better for a team to trade for him now and extend him this offseason rather than trade for him in the offseason and then try to extend him. Trading for him now allows for the 6 month waiting period to extend him outside of extend and trade limitations, and try and just extend him on a veteran extension during the offseason. If they trade for him in July, they would be limited to extend and trade rules until January of next season before being freed up to offer a standard extension with longer years and higher raises.

Doesn't he only have this year and next then free agency?

I think any small deal to free up a couple million by trading Torrey Craig is subsidiary to a big Turner deal (or of course a bigger Sabonis one).

I personally still like the "tank and open up cap space" and pay Brunson or Tyus Jones and draft a wing approach but I don't think Indy will go for it.

[psman2]

Might belong here, might not, but man, I love how Luke Kennard was called a horrible deal while guys like Harris, Robinson, Bertans weren't at first. Yet, Luke is hands down the best of that foursome and just scored 7 points in 8 seconds, including a logo three and four point play to secure a 35 point road comeback.

Chuck was the only Luke believer here, and man, if Dallas thought like him and got him, he'd be perfect for Luka.

It seems you too called it an overpay.

Looks like they didn't want him to get a big RFA offer...however, still an overpay imo. I would've done 4/48.

Looks like I was higher than most on the signing calling him neutral with a good chance to be good. Even Chuck was negative...he said

yikes that is a lot.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2031885&start=20

[Scoot McGroot]

Could be. The only issue is that if the team trading for Turner isn't 90% sure they can extend him (and his max is 70/3 so and it doesn't seem crazy that he might want to see if he can get 80/3 with a player option on the 4th year on the market for example) then Turner's value goes from 2 playoffs to 1 and so presumably drops down closer to 1 lotto protected first alone.

Do you mean that they would then want to deal Turner for value next year if he won’t extend? Otherwise, they would still have two playoffs for him to play.

As for an extension, it would be better for a team to trade for him now and extend him this offseason rather than trade for him in the offseason and then try to extend him. Trading for him now allows for the 6 month waiting period to extend him outside of extend and trade limitations, and try and just extend him on a veteran extension during the offseason. If they trade for him in July, they would be limited to extend and trade rules until January of next season before being freed up to offer a standard extension with longer years and higher raises.

Doesn't he only have this year and next then free agency?

. Yes. So a team would have him these playoffs and next playoffs. 2 playoffs, not 1.

I think any small deal to free up a couple million by trading Torrey Craig is subsidiary to a big Turner deal (or of course a bigger Sabonis one).

. I don’t love trade ideas where the solution is basically “just trade away your good and useful player to solve this problem you don’t really need to have.” We could give away decent players, but we’d rather not.

I personally still like the "tank and open up cap space" and pay Brunson or Tyus Jones and draft a wing approach but I don't think Indy will go for it.

That idea would require we get back neither players of value, or draft picks in this upcoming draft, as they’d have a cap hold. If you really want those players, why not try and trade for them now? They’re not coming to Indy without being overpaid, and probably not unless we also trade away Brogdon in the summer and clear a starting spot for them.

Otherwise, yeah. A Full on dump and tank for picks is something we just haven’t ever done. We haven’t traded a player for another teams future first since the 80’s, and we haven’t had a draft pick in the single digits since George McCloud at 7 in 1989.

[DoItALL9]

RJ Barrett & Julius Randle for Jaylen Brown

Is this way off?

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[DoItALL9]

Are the Knicks afraid of Julius Randle long-term?


John Wall for Julius Randle, Kemba Walker, and Evan Fournier

Taking a step back to get a better launching pad for the future

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