Jalyen Brown vs Pascal Siakam

[arh1109]

Both are in their primes but Siakam is 2.5 years older.

[Parataxis]

Both are in their primes but Siakam is 2.5 years older.

Yes, but both will still be in their primes by the time their current contracts end and then become UFAs. So I don't see their current ages as being that big of a factor on who you'd rather have on your team right now.

[bisme37]

Oh, and for Boston fans discounting the importance of playmaking, I’d like to remind you that your team has stunk since you lost Hayward and I don’t think that’s a coincidence at all.

This would make sense if not for that Hayward barely ever played for Boston and never contributed to winning a single playoff series. I don't know how people have forgotten this. He's a nice player but I don't know how it impacts a team to lose a player who didn't play in the first place. We got to two ECFs while he was on the team but he was involved with neither. Actually, he returned from injury in Game 3 against the Heat in the ECFs a couple years ago, and then we lost.

[RoyceDa59]

These players are definitely in the same tier in terms of value.

Brown is better shooter and scorer.
Siakam is a better playmaker and rebounder.
Both are good defenders, in different ways. Brown a better lock down 1-1 defender, Siakam a more versatile and useful help defender.

In general, Brown is younger but Siakam is bigger, so I consider those a wash. Can’t teach youth and can’t teach size. Siakam had a massive reach (even for his size). Browns shooting will ensure he’s useful even into his later years.

Yeah, these guys are super similar in terms of trade value. They’re also most likely assets that aren’t being shopped, would be hard to pry away, but are available for the right price.

It will be a very interesting off season.

[bisme37]

Tatum has been significantly better than Siakam/Jaylen with both raw and advanced stats the last three seasons. I’ll post the advanced stats for the last three years if needed.

With impact stats the last three years, Jaylen has been good, Siakam has been very good, and Tatum has been elite.

I dont like Tatum name popping up in this thread. This thread is strictly about Brown and Siakam. Please do not pollute it with Tatum. Please only post Brown and Siakam's advanced stats. TIA

Yeah I agree arguing about Tatum vs Siakam is silly. Yogurt guy was the one who started that debate and changed the direction of the thread. Tatum is an entire tier better and zero NBA teams would take Pascal over him, including the Raps. And that's ok.

I think we've seen enough evidence that Pascal is at least somewhat better than Jaylen though. So Raps get a win on that one.

[LoveMyRaps]

Watch on YouTube

You forgot Jaylen being a far better defender. Brown destroyed him in their playoff matchup.

It's comical that ignorant folks like you guys continue to use the bubble performance from Siakam 1.5years ago to make conclusions.
As many others have already pointed Siakam hadn't touched a basketball for several months and was incapable of doing anything in the bubble. He was so bad in the bubble that he struggled mightily against the Nets in the first round who were a team full of G-Leaguers (Plus LeVert).
People act like Brown did something magical against Pascal in the second round but that's just nonsense.

Here's some facts for you:

Siakam while being defended by Brown in the bubble playoffs shot 44% from the field, 2/12 from deep, and had 3 turnovers.

Brown while being defended by Siakam in the bubble playoffs shot 34% from the field, 4/17 from deep, and had 4 turnovers.

So yeah you got it twisted, its actually Siakam that put the clamps on Brown. Not the other way around.



With that being said, this is the right answer to the Jaylen Brown vs. Pascal Siakam debate:

I think it’s relatively close, Jaylen a better scorer for sure, but Siakam better at everything else.

I'm a pretty big fan of Brown and would love him on my squad but that comment is spot on. Jaylen's outside shooting separates him from Siakam in the scoring department but Siakam is better at literally everything else.

The advanced statistics favor Siakam as well over Brown.

If the question is which player is better of the two, I'd say Siakam. If the question is which player would I rather have/build around, it depends on which team.

[Tor_Raps]

Watch on YouTube

I still have nightmares of this series. Siakam was terrible the entire time in the bubble so it wasn't only Brown who held him in check.

We had the 2nd best record in the NBA before covid happened. I still think we win the title or at least give the Lakers a crazy series in the Finals if Siakam was half decent.

[Tor_Raps]

I hate these type of threads without including a poll. Half of the Raptors fanbase wanted Siakam traded before this season and now most of them are being frontrunners lol.

IMO, it's a toss up with both being in the same tier. The recent stretch favors Siakam but the age/potential favors Brown. Take your pick.

[YogurtProducer]

I hate these type of threads without including a poll. Half of the Raptors fanbase wanted Siakam traded before this season and now most of them are being frontrunners lol.

IMO, it's a toss up with both being in the same tier. The recent stretch favors Siakam but the age/potential favors Brown. Take your pick.

Oh I think its close enough that you would accept Brown for Siakam, but that's solely due to age/salary.

But current on court performance, it is Siakam. Want to win a game tomorrow? Siakam. Want to go into a little bit of a rebuild? Brown.

[ITYSL]

They're close enough that you can't protest anyone picking either one. Depends on need and stage of the team. I think that's the bottom line.

[YogurtProducer]

Tatum has been significantly better than Siakam/Jaylen with both raw and advanced stats the last three seasons. I’ll post the advanced stats for the last three years if needed.

With impact stats the last three years, Jaylen has been good, Siakam has been very good, and Tatum has been elite.

I dont like Tatum name popping up in this thread. This thread is strictly about Brown and Siakam. Please do not pollute it with Tatum. Please only post Brown and Siakam's advanced stats. TIA

Yeah I agree arguing about Tatum vs Siakam is silly. Yogurt guy was the one who started that debate and changed the direction of the thread. Tatum is an entire tier better and zero NBA teams would take Pascal over him, including the Raps. And that's ok.

I think we've seen enough evidence that Pascal is at least somewhat better than Jaylen though. So Raps get a win on that one.

It probably could be its own thread. All I am saying is there is not some clear gap like Celtics or fans who only watch NBA on TNT. Kind of reminds me of the threads on TGB for years propping up Lowry and fans shutting them down in favor of bigger names who play in bigger markets. Look how that worked out.

Brown has a better 3 point shot than Siakam. Other than that, it is 100% all Pascal in literally every aspect.

If Pascal is continued to be deployed as a PG/Point forward like he has been since he has gotten his conditioning back under him this past 10-15 games and he truly is a guy who will drop 6-7 assists per night, it simply is not close. Siakam is a guy who I can definitely see being in the All-NBA running (prob not this year due to games missed and the Raptors record), but Brown to me just won't ever get there.

The past 15 games have been the first time in a long time (like, since the Bubble) that the Raptors have been moderately healthy (and even then, we have had a loooot of guys missing games). Having competent dudes around Pascal has meant he is finally able to punish teams for doubling him and he is putting up 24/9/7.

[ForeverTFC]

Both grade out as 2nd options on a championship team to me. For that reason, I'm picking Paskal because he grades out better on everything else but scoring and the primary option on the team is usually the number 1 offensive option.

[ballup]

I see both sides touting each player's defensive versatility and exaggerating it. Reviewing NBA.com's tracking data, neither has a more noticeable diversity in defensive assignments. Siakam defends mostly bigs, some wings and rarely points. Inversely, Jaylen guards wings, 4s, some points, and rarely centers.

As for defense in general, Siakam of course takes the cake. Being a great help defender along with switchability is the dream. Jaylen's defensive duties have laxed since he became the 2nd go to scorer. His values comes out of focusing on guarding one player. Not exactly lockdown, but the combination of size, quickness, strength, and vertical makes Jaylen an effective contester.

I see quite a bit of dismissal for the ppg difference when there's more context. Points per FGA is similar between the two. However, Jaylen being a 3 level scorer is what gives him a massive edge over Siakam. Having a signature move can make you difficult to guard. On the other hand, having so many weapons in your arsenal produces a similar effect. Jaylen has shown to be very efficient at the rim (70%), midrange (high 40s), and 3 (high 30s). He can spot up, pull up from deep, post up, pull up on a drive, runners, and take it all the way. Always having an answer to the defense is valuable.

Siakam is offensively dynamic. The high octane slashing playstyle along with having a signature spin move makes him a terror in the regular season much like Giannis and Simmons. With such reliance on this style, halfcourt play, which is prominent in the playoffs becomes a struggle. He doesn't have the self creation abilities when the defense can regularly gameplan.

The Celtics are a bottom 5 transition team and that's with Jaylen being near the top of transition plays. Siakam is also a transition heavy player and is complimented by the Raptors style of pushing the ball. Jaylen is turning it over more this season so he isn't finishing these plays as well as he has in the past, but putting him in an environment like the one Nurse has created would boost those scoring numbers.

The playmaking heavily favors Siakam. The seams he created through his drives along with his passing is the true gem of his offense. Jaylen, on the other hand, can have tunnel vision and his dribbling can be loose.

Overall, Siakam has more baseline plug and play value in his defense and playmaking. However, Jaylen's scoring prowess is difficult to have specialists replicate separately. Most people would put them in the same tier. It depends on how much stock you put in terms of what each player brings/take away.

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[realball]

Brown has had injury issues and covid to start the season, his efficiency has been off (although past month it has been back to his usual efficiency). Even so, his TS% is still higher this year and was quite a bit higher last year than Siakam.

Its funny how you brought up this season when the raptors are in the same position as the celtics in the standings. Even with Vanvleet playing out of his mind, looking like an all star, Barnes running for rookie of the year and Siakam as you guys claimed better than brown one would assume the raps would have a much better record than the celtics.

Raptors on paper are a much worse team than the Celtics. We're starting a rookie who is a forward at C. We have even worse depth than the Celtics. Siakam/FVV are our oldest starters. Siakam also missed 12 games to start the season, and our whole team had to suffer from losses due to covid. Raptors are definitely overachieving and Celtics are underachieving by a lot.

Jaylen has missed 14 games, so more than Siakam, Smart 10 games, Timelord 11 games, Al horford 9 games, Tatum forgetting how to shoot, raptors is not the only team suffering from covid.

Not sure why you brought up age, Celtics is one of the youngest teams in the league too. Our bench are both awful, raptors ranked worst in league and celtics 3rd worst.

I don't get how raptors on paper are much worse team than the celtics.

Based on raptors fans comments, you guys have 2 starters that are better (vanvleet vs whoever we have as PG and Siakam over Brown). Then you have Trent who I think is better than any guard we have except maybe Smart and that is arguable.

Siakam missed 12 games to start the season, then a bunch more from covid. My point is that the whole injury covid excuse doesn't work for either of them.

And the Raptors have far more young players in their rotation than the Celtics, not to mention having Tatum, who is the best player on either team. You guys have Cs like Robert Williams and Al Horford, we're playing Scottie Barnes, Chris Boucher, and Precious Achiuwa at C. Guys like Pritchard and Langford have at least had some decent moments, the Raps have been playing 7-man rotations with Siakam/Barnes at PG because our bench players have been so bad.

It's really not debatable, the Celtics are definitely a more talented than the Raps, and far more balanced as a team. We just have a much better coach. I don't think many people expected us to be at .500 this season, while most people would have had the Celtics as at least a lock for a top 8 spot.

[YogurtProducer]

Raptors on paper are a much worse team than the Celtics. We're starting a rookie who is a forward at C. We have even worse depth than the Celtics. Siakam/FVV are our oldest starters. Siakam also missed 12 games to start the season, and our whole team had to suffer from losses due to covid. Raptors are definitely overachieving and Celtics are underachieving by a lot.

Jaylen has missed 14 games, so more than Siakam, Smart 10 games, Timelord 11 games, Al horford 9 games, Tatum forgetting how to shoot, raptors is not the only team suffering from covid.

Not sure why you brought up age, Celtics is one of the youngest teams in the league too. Our bench are both awful, raptors ranked worst in league and celtics 3rd worst.

I don't get how raptors on paper are much worse team than the celtics.

Based on raptors fans comments, you guys have 2 starters that are better (vanvleet vs whoever we have as PG and Siakam over Brown). Then you have Trent who I think is better than any guard we have except maybe Smart and that is arguable.

Siakam missed 12 games to start the season, then a bunch more from covid. My point is that the whole injury covid excuse doesn't work for either of them.

And the Raptors have far more young players in their rotation than the Celtics, not to mention having Tatum, who is the best player on either team. You guys have Cs like Robert Williams and Al Horford, we're playing Scottie Barnes, Chris Boucher, and Precious Achiuwa at C. Guys like Pritchard and Langford have at least had some decent moments, the Raps have been playing 7-man rotations with Siakam/Barnes at PG because our bench players have been so bad.

It's really not debatable, the Celtics are definitely a more talented than the Raps, and far more balanced as a team. We just have a much better coach. I don't think many people expected us to be at .500 this season, while most people would have had the Celtics as at least a lock for a top 8 spot.

Correct me if i am wrong, but Brown had a training camp, correct? SIakam was coming off a shoulder surgery and if I remember correctly he is at about the timeline now as to when people generally report they are "over" it.

He looks a looot more like his 2018-19 and pre-bubble 2019 self than he did in the Tampa Bay season.

So I guess that is where a lot of disagreement stems from. People are basing their opinions of Pascal based on what they have seen for the last 12ish months, without having the full picture that he had not looked like himself up until this year, and even that took a dozen or so games to get his legs under him. The Pascal we have seen in the last month looks a lot more like early 2019-20 Pascal with improved playmaking and better decision than it does like 2020-21 or bubble Siakam (Where I am convinced G-Leaguers could have defended him then)

[Ice Trae]

Super close but i'll go with Siakam due to his better all around skill set.

[RaptorPride]

Watch on YouTube

You forgot Jaylen being a far better defender. Brown destroyed him in their playoff matchup.

It's comical that ignorant folks like you guys continue to use the bubble performance from Siakam 1.5years ago to make conclusions.
As many others have already pointed Siakam hadn't touched a basketball for several months and was incapable of doing anything in the bubble. He was so bad in the bubble that he struggled mightily against the Nets in the first round who were a team full of G-Leaguers (Plus LeVert).
People act like Brown did something magical against Pascal in the second round but that's just nonsense.

Here's some facts for you:

Siakam while being defended by Brown in the bubble playoffs shot 44% from the field, 2/12 from deep, and had 3 turnovers.

Brown while being defended by Siakam in the bubble playoffs shot 34% from the field, 4/17 from deep, and had 4 turnovers.

So yeah you got it twisted, its actually Siakam that put the clamps on Brown. Not the other way around.



With that being said, this is the right answer to the Jaylen Brown vs. Pascal Siakam debate:

I think it’s relatively close, Jaylen a better scorer for sure, but Siakam better at everything else.

I'm a pretty big fan of Brown and would love him on my squad but that comment is spot on. Jaylen's outside shooting separates him from Siakam in the scoring department but Siakam is better at literally everything else.

The advanced statistics favor Siakam as well over Brown.

If the question is which player is better of the two, I'd say Siakam. If the question is which player would I rather have/build around, it depends on which team.

Yea Siakam was trash against everyone during the bubble including the nets. That was the first time he stopped basketball for so long after he started to play at 16 or 17.

[LoveMyRaps]

I see both sides touting each player's defensive versatility and exaggerating it. Reviewing NBA.com's tracking data, neither has a more noticeable diversity in defensive assignments. Siakam defends mostly bigs, some wings and rarely points. Inversely, Jaylen guards wings, 4s, some points, and rarely centers.

As for defense in general, Siakam of course takes the cake. Being a great help defender along with switchability is the dream. Jaylen's defensive duties have laxed since he became the 2nd go to scorer. His values comes out of focusing on guarding one player. Not exactly lockdown, but the combination of size, quickness, strength, and vertical makes Jaylen an effective contester.

I see quite a bit of dismissal for the ppg difference when there's more context. Points per FGA is similar between the two. However, Jaylen being a 3 level scorer is what gives him a massive edge over Siakam. Having a signature move can make you difficult to guard. On the other hand, having so many weapons in your arsenal produces a similar effect. Jaylen has shown to be very efficient at the rim (70%), midrange (high 40s), and 3 (high 30s). He can spot up, pull up from deep, post up, pull up on a drive, runners, and take it all the way. Always having an answer to the defense is valuable.

Siakam is offensively dynamic. The high octane slashing playstyle along with having a signature spin move makes him a terror in the regular season much like Giannis and Simmons. With such reliance on this style, halfcourt play, which is prominent in the playoffs becomes a struggle. He doesn't have the self creation abilities when the defense can regularly gameplan.

The Celtics are a bottom 5 transition team and that's with Jaylen being near the top of transition plays. Siakam is also a transition heavy player and is complimented by the Raptors style of pushing the ball. Jaylen is turning it over more this season so he isn't finishing these plays as well as he has in the past, but putting him in an environment like the one Nurse has created would boost those scoring numbers.

The playmaking heavily favors Siakam. The seams he created through his drives along with his passing is the true gem of his offense. Jaylen, on the other hand, can have tunnel vision and his dribbling can be loose.

Overall, Siakam has more baseline plug and play value in his defense and playmaking. However, Jaylen's scoring prowess is difficult to have specialists replicate separately. Most people would put them in the same tier. It depends on how much stock you put in terms of what each player brings/take away.

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Good up-to-date post. Unlike a lot of other folks here who are only bringing up the bubble series from 3 years back to draw their conclusions.

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

I take JB. He is a better creator and I think could thrive as a number one option.

I don’t think either are good enough #1 options on good teams, just that JB hasn’t been given the opportunity

? Better creator? You sure you’ve watched Jaylen Brown play? He’s got terrible BBIQ, handle, and assist/turnover ratio. “Creator” lol

Have you seen Siakim? Have you seen him even dribble without some quirky spin move every 4 seconds.

[beantownski]

they're close, but brown has a much better iso game. a lot of siakam's fgs are assisted or on the break. in a half court set brown separates himself.