Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks

[Wizop]

It sounds like Sacramento and Philadelphia are more inclined to hang onto their franchise players at the moment.

fine with me. this isn't our year and no midseason deal is going to make it our year. I'm ready to start building around Duarte, Jackson, and this year's lottery pick. that doesn't mean they have to start in 2022-23, but I hope they are capable starters by the end of their rookie contracts.

Sabonis is a special talent though and is only 11 months older than Duarte. Turner is only 2 months older than Sabonis. they've been here long enough that I forget how young they still are.

Brogdon, Warren, and LeVert are all a tier older

[Wizop]

For the team's fanbase though, it's a little depressing knowing that because your team isn't usually a player in the FA market, you cannot count on your team's best players remaining with your team past 7 or 8 years.

We do have the wives going for us though. A married player with kids in school isn't going to convince his wife that they need to move to South Beach for the club scene. I don't expect home town discounts and winning matters, but it isn't all about glamour.

[Topofthekey]

For the team's fanbase though, it's a little depressing knowing that because your team isn't usually a player in the FA market, you cannot count on your team's best players remaining with your team past 7 or 8 years./quote]

We do have the wives going for us though. A married player with kids in school isn't going to convince his wife that they need to move to South Beach for the club scene. I don't expect home town discounts and winning matters, but it isn't all about glamour.

Didn't Sabonis' wife say she didn't like the city or something?

[Scoot McGroot]

For the team's fanbase though, it's a little depressing knowing that because your team isn't usually a player in the FA market, you cannot count on your team's best players remaining with your team past 7 or 8 years./quote]

We do have the wives going for us though. A married player with kids in school isn't going to convince his wife that they need to move to South Beach for the club scene. I don't expect home town discounts and winning matters, but it isn't all about glamour.

Didn't Sabonis' wife say she didn't like the city or something?

I don’t know that she’s ever said that, but she is a lifelong Californian, was a Laker girl, and operates a business based in California. Reportedly, she stays there all year.

[Wizop]

Didn't Sabonis' wife say she didn't like the city or something?

no idea but they're still young and childless.

[Wizop]

theAthletic has a Turbonis trade article up with Bob Kravitz and their Washington reporter, Here is what I replied:

The Washington roster just doesn't have a young player at what I consider to be the Pacers position of need. We just drafted Duarte and Jackson and both Turner and Sabonis are younger than you might think they are. With Brogdon sitting we're getting a chance to see how LeVert does as the primary ball handler. He's proving to be a 2 with only the emergency ability to be a 1. Lance Stephenson is doing a better job of keeping the team organized than LeVert and Sykes (and the injured McConnell) did too.

Also, the Pacers are going to have the highest draft pick they've had in years. A quick look at the early projections shows that the top 10 is full of 3/4s. Rui and Deni (and Kispert) are nice young players but are any of them clearly better than Jackson and who we'll be drafting this summer? Even if they are a little bit better now, is it smart to limit the minutes of our guys? I say no.

But Bob argues that we HAVE to make a deal and gives as a model trading an older Dale Davis (who was upset because he'd made a bad decision not using a player option to become a free agent) for a young player at the same position. Neither Turner nor Sabonis are old enough to fit that model. Brogdon can't be traded until summer. That leaves Warren who hasn't played in forever and LeVert. (I'm ignoring older bench players like Holiday).

Anyone have a young point guard on their bench who can fit with Brogdon or Duarte that they'd give up for LeVert's scoring ability?

[Scoot McGroot]

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[Tom White]

I have been wondering when we would start hearing trade rumors on Holiday. Guess that question is answered.

[Scoot McGroot]

I have been wondering when we would start hearing trade rumors on Holiday. Guess that question is answered.

Jake Fischer stated on his recent appearance on Indy Cornrows podcast that Indy is taking and making due diligence calls on Justin Holiday, Jeremy Lamb, and Torrey Craig. Didn't mean it's going to happen that they're dealt, but they're definitely seeing if there's any value on the market for them.

[Wizop]

I have been wondering when we would start hearing trade rumors on Holiday. Guess that question is answered.

as much as I like Justin, our timeline has changed. we're farther away than I thought we were back in the summer when we hired Carlisle. also, it looks like we only have some other team's 2nd and not a high one like our FRP. I'm fine with moving him to make PT for the end of the bench guys.

[Topofthekey]

To be honest, I actually think that this season is going better than the last

Last season was super frustrating. Pacers were a mediocre team that couldn't even get to the playoffs, but they also stubbornly refused to give much opportunity to the next echelon players on the team and instead rode the top 7 or 8 players as far as they could go

(Tbf the emergence of Domas under Bjorkgren was a bright spot)

This season the team still sucked, maybe even more, but at the very least we've seen some development of young players like Duarte, Goga, Jackson, and Washington

(Injuries might have forced Carlisle's hand a bit, but he was still more willing to experiment than Bjorkgren)

In addition to finally getting to watch some young players grow, the team also looks like they could possibly get the best pick they've had in decades?

And it feels like some trades are coming either at the trade deadline or the off-season?

For me, even though this team sucks more, I feel like there are more reasons to be excited compared to last season

[basketballwacko2]

I'm not advocating for trading Sabonis but I've like the games better when, Sabonis, Turner, Brogdan and LeVert are out.

It's interesting how the T&T board posts and threads about trading Sabonis and Turner have dried up since both are hurt.

[Pacers Forever]

To be honest, I actually think that this season is going better than the last

Last season was super frustrating. Pacers were a mediocre team that couldn't even get to the playoffs, but they also stubbornly refused to give much opportunity to the next echelon players on the team and instead rode the top 7 or 8 players as far as they could go

(Tbf the emergence of Domas under Bjorkgren was a bright spot)

This season the team still sucked, maybe even more, but at the very least we've seen some development of young players like Duarte, Goga, Jackson, and Washington

(Injuries might have forced Carlisle's hand a bit, but he was still more willing to experiment than Bjorkgren)

In addition to finally getting to watch some young players grow, the team also looks like they could possibly get the best pick they've had in decades?

And it feels like some trades are coming either at the trade deadline or the off-season?

For me, even though this team sucks more, I feel like there are more reasons to be excited compared to last season

I agree there’s a lot to be excited about next season especially if the team and coaches can get together on what offense and defense work well. That’s been a challenge this season along with injuries.

Add a top 10 draft pick. Lose Lamb. Get McConnell healthy. Make a decision on Warren. Maybe trade some misfits by season start. Maybe sign a FA that fits.

Our rookies will have a season of learning the league completed which will give them confidence and less stress.

Do I think with a few of these things changing they’ll be a top 4 team in the East ? No but I think they could be 6-8th best which we thought they’d be this year.

[Scoot McGroot]

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[Wizop]

huge game for draft odds

pretty bad to only be 2 games ahead of a team that isn't really trying to win this year.

[Tom White]

It just hit me that one problem the Pacers might have with trading Holiday is his stupid stance on vaccination. Remember, some teams are in areas with vaccine mandates, so that would limit the trading partners. He likely has diminished his own value.

Just another reason to ship him out at the best opportunity.

[pacers33granger]

It just hit me that one problem the Pacers might have with trading Holiday is his stupid stance on vaccination. Remember, some teams are in areas with vaccine mandates, so that would limit the trading partners. He likely has diminished his own value.

Just another reason to ship him out at the best opportunity.

The flip side to trading Holiday is it leaves us with almost no real vet voice. I know some of our starters are supposed to be that too, but some are either still too young despite technically being vets or just suck at being that voice.

We really need another true adult next year. Hopefully we can just sign Thad cheap.

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[Tom White]

The flip side to trading Holiday is it leaves us with almost no real vet voice.

I'm not sure how much of that we have that right now. Maybe TJ McConnell is. I would bet the younger players listen to him and respect him. I would even say Sykes shows some of that leadership. But I don't think Holiday show any of it.

Hopefully we can just sign Thad cheap.

Been there. done that. Thad doesn't really bring anything to the team. We already have enough mediocre players.

[Scoot McGroot]

It just hit me that one problem the Pacers might have with trading Holiday is his stupid stance on vaccination. Remember, some teams are in areas with vaccine mandates, so that would limit the trading partners. He likely has diminished his own value.

Just another reason to ship him out at the best opportunity.

It would basically mean that he can’t be dealt to Brooklyn or Toronto, for sure. I’m not sure if it ended up going away, but also probable he couldn’t be dealt to Golden State. I think everyone else would be ok.

[pacers33granger]

The flip side to trading Holiday is it leaves us with almost no real vet voice.

I'm not sure how much of that we have that right now. Maybe TJ McConnell is. I would bet the younger players listen to him and respect him. I would even say Sykes shows some of that leadership. But I don't think Holiday show any of it.

Hopefully we can just sign Thad cheap.

Been there. done that. Thad doesn't really bring anything to the team. We already have enough mediocre players.

I believe he is one of the more respected voices in the locker room. I doubt he's that vocal, but I see a clear need for guys who provide some leadership.

Pritchard believed too much in Brogdon as a leader imo. He is off the court but not on. We should've seen this coming though after the team asked Warren to step up as a leader last off-season.

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