Jalyen Brown vs Pascal Siakam

[ITYSL]

The advanced statistics favor Siakam as well over Brown.

Nah, they're pretty balanced this season. Siakam has higher PER and WS/48 and slightly better VORP, Brown is slightly higher in PIE, Total RAPTOR and RAPTOR WAR, and well ahead in RAPM.

[Liver_Pooty]

Just in here to witness these solid Celtics and raps realgm fanbases get after it.

I'd pick Miles Bridges.

[Duffman100]

Just in here to witness these solid Celtics and raps realgm fanbases get after it.

I'd pick Miles Bridges.

My first really solid look at him the other night. Impressed. I kept thinking he was going to get blocked on those drives and he didn’t.

[seanbig]

I don't know if this is fair to Pascal, but Brown did outplay him in that series a few years ago while also guarding him. I don't expect it will significantly impact who takes who, but I can't ignore it as nothing. It might not translate over the season, but I feel Brown's versatility does show up in the playoffs.

It's not like that series was a completely isolated event either as Brown has always defended Siakam well, but in fairness to Pascal he was not his usual self in the bubble (which is on him because he was totally unprepared to play). But I also have this issue where I can't completely get over their H2Hs even though it's kinda dumb to compare players like that.

People keep brining up the bubble but on paper Brown did have the better season last year and Siakam the year pryor. This isn’t to say one is better than the other. Honestly I think Siakam would be a much better fit on Boston than Brown. However some of the justifications for poor play are reaching. No one was theirselves in the bubble, Tatum didnt pick up a ball during the time off either. And being injured isnt a positive on the argument front, for either.

I totally agree- I think pascal could complements Tatum a lot better than brown and pascals really showing vision and is more comfortable as a second or third option

[Saint Lazarus]

Now im expecting pascal to be like 2/14, 4 assists, and 4 rebounds with 6 TOs against the bulls....

3/12 but you were close

[Blaze4G]

Raptors on paper are a much worse team than the Celtics. We're starting a rookie who is a forward at C. We have even worse depth than the Celtics. Siakam/FVV are our oldest starters. Siakam also missed 12 games to start the season, and our whole team had to suffer from losses due to covid. Raptors are definitely overachieving and Celtics are underachieving by a lot.

Jaylen has missed 14 games, so more than Siakam, Smart 10 games, Timelord 11 games, Al horford 9 games, Tatum forgetting how to shoot, raptors is not the only team suffering from covid.

Not sure why you brought up age, Celtics is one of the youngest teams in the league too. Our bench are both awful, raptors ranked worst in league and celtics 3rd worst.

I don't get how raptors on paper are much worse team than the celtics.

Based on raptors fans comments, you guys have 2 starters that are better (vanvleet vs whoever we have as PG and Siakam over Brown). Then you have Trent who I think is better than any guard we have except maybe Smart and that is arguable.

Siakam missed 12 games to start the season, then a bunch more from covid. My point is that the whole injury covid excuse doesn't work for either of them.

And the Raptors have far more young players in their rotation than the Celtics, not to mention having Tatum, who is the best player on either team. You guys have Cs like Robert Williams and Al Horford, we're playing Scottie Barnes, Chris Boucher, and Precious Achiuwa at C. Guys like Pritchard and Langford have at least had some decent moments, the Raps have been playing 7-man rotations with Siakam/Barnes at PG because our bench players have been so bad.

It's really not debatable, the Celtics are definitely a more talented than the Raps, and far more balanced as a team. We just have a much better coach. I don't think many people expected us to be at .500 this season, while most people would have had the Celtics as at least a lock for a top 8 spot.

1. You were the one that brought up Siakam missed 12 games which is why I brought up Jaylen missing 14 games.

2. The average age of raptors starting 5 is 23....the Celtics (if you remove horford and put Grant Williams who have started several games) is 24....with horford it is 27.

3. If Tatum was playing at his usual level we would be much higher in the standings. Before past 2 games 1 would argue his level of play was below Siakam.

4. I cant believe you really mentioned Pritchard and Langford lol. Same Pritchard avg 5 points on 37% shooting? Langford 4.9 points? I might as well say Flynn and Justin have had some decent moments.

5. I already highlighted based on NBA stats the raptors have the worst bench and Celtics is 3rd worst. Although Raptors bench I must admit is substantially worse. Is dragic that bad?

6. I actually had raptors making the playoffs this yr as an 8 seed, above .500. Funny thing is my friend does a podcast and I stated this in December...so I can actually prove it lol. I wont lie, I had celtics ranked minimum 4th seed.


I agree with others here that if Pascal was on Celtics instead of Jaylen, it would work better. Likewise I think Jaylen would make Raptors better instead of siakam (with a healthy vanvleet of course).

[ATLTimekeeper]

I think Brown is the better scorer/shooter/man-to-man defender. Siakam's catch and shoot ability is really inconsistent. He was much better with Kawhi. Most teams would take Brown over Siakam based on age and contract, but since I consider neither of them true first options that Brown makes a better #2 than Siakam is a #1.

My only comment is that Siakam is a more of a basketball player and Brown is more of an athlete who plays basketball. It probably should be the other way around considering Siakam came to the sport late, but I think he's someone who has had to wear many hats in his rise and so he's had to put more work in to survive. The result is that he's versatile, unselfish and applies his intelligence routinely in games. Brown is was a high pick and A+ athlete that really just had to work on his pet shots. I don't think he's shown enough feel for the game that can help him become a first option/franchise corner stone.

[srhcan]

It's not like that series was a completely isolated event either as Brown has always defended Siakam well, but in fairness to Pascal he was not his usual self in the bubble (which is on him because he was totally unprepared to play). But I also have this issue where I can't completely get over their H2Hs even though it's kinda dumb to compare players like that.

People keep brining up the bubble but on paper Brown did have the better season last year and Siakam the year pryor. This isn’t to say one is better than the other. Honestly I think Siakam would be a much better fit on Boston than Brown. However some of the justifications for poor play are reaching. No one was theirselves in the bubble, Tatum didnt pick up a ball during the time off either. And being injured isnt a positive on the argument front, for either.

I totally agree- I think pascal could complements Tatum a lot better than brown and pascals really showing vision and is more comfortable as a second or third option

If Celtics want to acquire Siakam what would be their trade offer? Brown + FRP + Filler?

[realball]

Jaylen has missed 14 games, so more than Siakam, Smart 10 games, Timelord 11 games, Al horford 9 games, Tatum forgetting how to shoot, raptors is not the only team suffering from covid.

Not sure why you brought up age, Celtics is one of the youngest teams in the league too. Our bench are both awful, raptors ranked worst in league and celtics 3rd worst.

I don't get how raptors on paper are much worse team than the celtics.

Based on raptors fans comments, you guys have 2 starters that are better (vanvleet vs whoever we have as PG and Siakam over Brown). Then you have Trent who I think is better than any guard we have except maybe Smart and that is arguable.

Siakam missed 12 games to start the season, then a bunch more from covid. My point is that the whole injury covid excuse doesn't work for either of them.

And the Raptors have far more young players in their rotation than the Celtics, not to mention having Tatum, who is the best player on either team. You guys have Cs like Robert Williams and Al Horford, we're playing Scottie Barnes, Chris Boucher, and Precious Achiuwa at C. Guys like Pritchard and Langford have at least had some decent moments, the Raps have been playing 7-man rotations with Siakam/Barnes at PG because our bench players have been so bad.

It's really not debatable, the Celtics are definitely a more talented than the Raps, and far more balanced as a team. We just have a much better coach. I don't think many people expected us to be at .500 this season, while most people would have had the Celtics as at least a lock for a top 8 spot.

1. You were the one that brought up Siakam missed 12 games which is why I brought up Jaylen missing 14 games.

2. The average age of raptors starting 5 is 23....the Celtics (if you remove horford and put Grant Williams who have started several games) is 24....with horford it is 27.

3. If Tatum was playing at his usual level we would be much higher in the standings. Before past 2 games 1 would argue his level of play was below Siakam.

4. I cant believe you really mentioned Pritchard and Langford lol. Same Pritchard avg 5 points on 37% shooting? Langford 4.9 points? I might as well say Flynn and Justin have had some decent moments.

5. I already highlighted based on NBA stats the raptors have the worst bench and Celtics is 3rd worst. Although Raptors bench I must admit is substantially worse. Is dragic that bad?

6. I actually had raptors making the playoffs this yr as an 8 seed, above .500. Funny thing is my friend does a podcast and I stated this in December...so I can actually prove it lol. I wont lie, I had celtics ranked minimum 4th seed.


I agree with others here that if Pascal was on Celtics instead of Jaylen, it would work better. Likewise I think Jaylen would make Raptors better instead of siakam (with a healthy vanvleet of course).

1. No dude, YOU were the one who brought up Brown getting covid and missing games.

2. We would kill to have Horford or Robert Williams on our team right now.

3. That's kind of the point, Siakam is almost playing as well as Tatum, he's definitely a better player than Brown this season.

4. It should give you an idea of how bad our bench has been that we'd consider Pritchard and Langford an upgrade.

5. Dragic hasn't even played, he's been that bad.

6. How very optimistic of you. I had the Celtics as top 6 and the Raptors in the play-in. Then again no one saw the Cavs being this good.

[Richard6xdx]

Funny how people say that Jaylen Brown is not a good shooter. His FG percentage is 45/37/83. People calling him Westbrook?? Come on you need to watch a little basketball. Also Siakum doesn't have another star playing next to him. Put Brown and Raptors and he scores 30 plus easily. Brown can also guard 1-5 just like Siakam . I do not think it is as close as people say it is. And Brown still has two more years to catch to Siakam which is huge in terms of development

[Blaze4G]

Siakam missed 12 games to start the season, then a bunch more from covid. My point is that the whole injury covid excuse doesn't work for either of them.

And the Raptors have far more young players in their rotation than the Celtics, not to mention having Tatum, who is the best player on either team. You guys have Cs like Robert Williams and Al Horford, we're playing Scottie Barnes, Chris Boucher, and Precious Achiuwa at C. Guys like Pritchard and Langford have at least had some decent moments, the Raps have been playing 7-man rotations with Siakam/Barnes at PG because our bench players have been so bad.

It's really not debatable, the Celtics are definitely a more talented than the Raps, and far more balanced as a team. We just have a much better coach. I don't think many people expected us to be at .500 this season, while most people would have had the Celtics as at least a lock for a top 8 spot.

1. You were the one that brought up Siakam missed 12 games which is why I brought up Jaylen missing 14 games.

2. The average age of raptors starting 5 is 23....the Celtics (if you remove horford and put Grant Williams who have started several games) is 24....with horford it is 27.

3. If Tatum was playing at his usual level we would be much higher in the standings. Before past 2 games 1 would argue his level of play was below Siakam.

4. I cant believe you really mentioned Pritchard and Langford lol. Same Pritchard avg 5 points on 37% shooting? Langford 4.9 points? I might as well say Flynn and Justin have had some decent moments.

5. I already highlighted based on NBA stats the raptors have the worst bench and Celtics is 3rd worst. Although Raptors bench I must admit is substantially worse. Is dragic that bad?

6. I actually had raptors making the playoffs this yr as an 8 seed, above .500. Funny thing is my friend does a podcast and I stated this in December...so I can actually prove it lol. I wont lie, I had celtics ranked minimum 4th seed.


I agree with others here that if Pascal was on Celtics instead of Jaylen, it would work better. Likewise I think Jaylen would make Raptors better instead of siakam (with a healthy vanvleet of course).

1. No dude, YOU were the one who brought up Brown getting covid and missing games.

2. We would kill to have Horford or Robert Williams on our team right now.

3. That's kind of the point, Siakam is almost playing as well as Tatum, he's definitely a better player than Brown this season.

4. It should give you an idea of how bad our bench has been that we'd consider Pritchard and Langford an upgrade.

5. Dragic hasn't even played, he's been that bad.

6. How very optimistic of you. I had the Celtics as top 6 and the Raptors in the play-in. Then again no one saw the Cavs being this good.

1. Whoops it was other person that brought up Siakam missing games which is why I brought up Brown missing games in our discussion. Last season he had 1 motnh he average 26 and another month he averaged 27 points shooting 52% and 50% respectively. I for sure wouldn't say he is one of leagues best scorer but he has shown the ability to do it extremely efficiently.

2. To be honest, I havent been able to watch any NBA games lately, but from what I have heard, Al hasnt been good recently. Shooting 42%, 27% from 3, avg 7 points...I would take whatever barnes is doing over that. Rob Williams on the other hand is great.

3. Maybe I miscommunicated but I don't necessarily disagree that Siakam is playing better now but I think the margin is small and would rather Brown due to being younger and I think higher upside. Past month Brown is averaging 25.5 points on good efficiency, so its not like he isnt playing well...celtics went 8-5 in those games too....so not empty stats.

4. haha although I would disagree about it being an upgrade, I can see your point...raps bench is awful. I honestly think raps can make a run this yr (2nd round possible ecf although a long shot) with some bench additions.

5. I noticed, but he can't be worse than whoever else plays.

6. Severely disappointed with my team thus far....and I feel vindicated for my raps pick. When I said it on the podcast every single member laughed at me. Yep, cavs has been surprising...especially after sexton went down and they kept winning.

[ballup]

People keep brining up the bubble but on paper Brown did have the better season last year and Siakam the year pryor. This isn’t to say one is better than the other. Honestly I think Siakam would be a much better fit on Boston than Brown. However some of the justifications for poor play are reaching. No one was theirselves in the bubble, Tatum didnt pick up a ball during the time off either. And being injured isnt a positive on the argument front, for either.

I totally agree- I think pascal could complements Tatum a lot better than brown and pascals really showing vision and is more comfortable as a second or third option

If Celtics want to acquire Siakam what would be their trade offer? Brown + FRP + Filler?

Who the hell do you think you kidnapped, Chelsea Clinton?


Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Larry_Russell]

Who cares?

Both teams are hovering at .500

[canz55]

I just saw this thread now.

I really like both players but I wouldn't trade Siakam's length for Brown's youth and scoring. But that's just me.

[realball]

1. You were the one that brought up Siakam missed 12 games which is why I brought up Jaylen missing 14 games.

2. The average age of raptors starting 5 is 23....the Celtics (if you remove horford and put Grant Williams who have started several games) is 24....with horford it is 27.

3. If Tatum was playing at his usual level we would be much higher in the standings. Before past 2 games 1 would argue his level of play was below Siakam.

4. I cant believe you really mentioned Pritchard and Langford lol. Same Pritchard avg 5 points on 37% shooting? Langford 4.9 points? I might as well say Flynn and Justin have had some decent moments.

5. I already highlighted based on NBA stats the raptors have the worst bench and Celtics is 3rd worst. Although Raptors bench I must admit is substantially worse. Is dragic that bad?

6. I actually had raptors making the playoffs this yr as an 8 seed, above .500. Funny thing is my friend does a podcast and I stated this in December...so I can actually prove it lol. I wont lie, I had celtics ranked minimum 4th seed.


I agree with others here that if Pascal was on Celtics instead of Jaylen, it would work better. Likewise I think Jaylen would make Raptors better instead of siakam (with a healthy vanvleet of course).

1. No dude, YOU were the one who brought up Brown getting covid and missing games.

2. We would kill to have Horford or Robert Williams on our team right now.

3. That's kind of the point, Siakam is almost playing as well as Tatum, he's definitely a better player than Brown this season.

4. It should give you an idea of how bad our bench has been that we'd consider Pritchard and Langford an upgrade.

5. Dragic hasn't even played, he's been that bad.

6. How very optimistic of you. I had the Celtics as top 6 and the Raptors in the play-in. Then again no one saw the Cavs being this good.

1. Whoops it was other person that brought up Siakam missing games which is why I brought up Brown missing games in our discussion. Last season he had 1 motnh he average 26 and another month he averaged 27 points shooting 52% and 50% respectively. I for sure wouldn't say he is one of leagues best scorer but he has shown the ability to do it extremely efficiently.

2. To be honest, I havent been able to watch any NBA games lately, but from what I have heard, Al hasnt been good recently. Shooting 42%, 27% from 3, avg 7 points...I would take whatever barnes is doing over that. Rob Williams on the other hand is great.

3. Maybe I miscommunicated but I don't necessarily disagree that Siakam is playing better now but I think the margin is small and would rather Brown due to being younger and I think higher upside. Past month Brown is averaging 25.5 points on good efficiency, so its not like he isnt playing well...celtics went 8-5 in those games too....so not empty stats.

4. haha although I would disagree about it being an upgrade, I can see your point...raps bench is awful. I honestly think raps can make a run this yr (2nd round possible ecf although a long shot) with some bench additions.

5. I noticed, but he can't be worse than whoever else plays.

6. Severely disappointed with my team thus far....and I feel vindicated for my raps pick. When I said it on the podcast every single member laughed at me. Yep, cavs has been surprising...especially after sexton went down and they kept winning.

You're right, Brown is younger and he's a better scorer, so he's always going to have more upside than Siakam. I just think Siakam is having a better year thus far. Siakam might be making more of an impact on winning this season with his improved playmaking, but I imagine Brown's value is still higher and he would fetch more in a trade.

[normgod6]

Honestly its very simple. Pascal has taken that leap in playmaking Celtics fans have been hoping Jalen Brown would for the past 3 years.

[durka]

As a Raps fan I definitely have a bias here and don't have the same knowledge of Brown as a player that I do as Siakam, but this boils down to something pretty simple IMO. Siakam has a higher floor and Brown has a higher ceiling. We've never seen Brown as the undisputed number one guy, but we have seen Siakam do that the 2 years prior to this and he's definitely not that guy. Brown might not be that guy now, but has the tools and the skillset to maybe become it one day. He's also been the clear number 2 option behind Tatum his whole career, so we don't really know what his game looks like when he's the focal point of opposing defenses every single game. On the other hand Siakam has proven to be an elite supporting player who can contribute to winning in was other than just scoring, where as Brown has played beside a superstar in Tatum his entire career and hasn't been able to do that as well.

I guess it comes down to what stage my team is in. If I have 1 or 2 legit superstars and I'm looking to win right now, I'm going with Siakam. If I have a younger team that I'm looking to develop and can give Green a chance to be a true #1 option, I'm going with Green.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Funny how people say that Jaylen Brown is not a good shooter. His FG percentage is 45/37/83. People calling him Westbrook?? Come on you need to watch a little basketball. Also Siakum doesn't have another star playing next to him. Put Brown and Raptors and he scores 30 plus easily. Brown can also guard 1-5 just like Siakam . I do not think it is as close as people say it is. And Brown still has two more years to catch to Siakam which is huge in terms of development

No, he doesn't. That's not how the Raptors play, or structure their offence. They spread out opportunities pretty well amongst their 5 best players. Here are the usage rates for Siakam, VanVleet, Anunoby, Trent, and Barnes.
25.3
24.2
22.2
21.0
18.9

Jaylen Brown's usage rate with the Celtics this year is 30.8.

The only way Brown averages 30 points "easily" on the Raptors is if he starts playing extremely selfishly and chucking and ignoring his teammates, which would put him in Nick Nurse's doghouse within a game or two.

[Son Goku 25]

Watch on YouTube

You forgot Jaylen being a far better defender. Brown destroyed him in their playoff matchup.

It's comical that ignorant folks like you guys continue to use the bubble performance from Siakam 1.5years ago to make conclusions.
As many others have already pointed Siakam hadn't touched a basketball for several months and was incapable of doing anything in the bubble. He was so bad in the bubble that he struggled mightily against the Nets in the first round who were a team full of G-Leaguers (Plus LeVert).
People act like Brown did something magical against Pascal in the second round but that's just nonsense.

Here's some facts for you:

Siakam while being defended by Brown in the bubble playoffs shot 44% from the field, 2/12 from deep, and had 3 turnovers.

Brown while being defended by Siakam in the bubble playoffs shot 34% from the field, 4/17 from deep, and had 4 turnovers.

So yeah you got it twisted, its actually Siakam that put the clamps on Brown. Not the other way around.



With that being said, this is the right answer to the Jaylen Brown vs. Pascal Siakam debate:

I think it’s relatively close, Jaylen a better scorer for sure, but Siakam better at everything else.

I'm a pretty big fan of Brown and would love him on my squad but that comment is spot on. Jaylen's outside shooting separates him from Siakam in the scoring department but Siakam is better at literally everything else.

The advanced statistics favor Siakam as well over Brown.

If the question is which player is better of the two, I'd say Siakam. If the question is which player would I rather have/build around, it depends on which team.

[srhcan]

I totally agree- I think pascal could complements Tatum a lot better than brown and pascals really showing vision and is more comfortable as a second or third option

If Celtics want to acquire Siakam what would be their trade offer? Brown + FRP + Filler?

Who the hell do you think you kidnapped, Chelsea Clinton?


Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

what is your deal then? remember in any such deal Siakam is the best player so Brown cannot be traded alone for Siakam. You will have to cough up more.