2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[eyeatoma]

Just quickly as a Sixers fan, Embiid has never been a great rebounder in fact size for size Ben and Harris pips him (Ben’s our best screener and that’s not close either fwiw). He’s absolutely huge duh as the offset but Jokic’s skill prowess as a big is unmatched I can’t think of a big in history as skillful as him defense aside.

Disagree on him never being a great rebounder. He projected as an elite rebounder in college. He averaged 7.8 boards in his rookie year on less than 26 minutes.

Dude averaged 13.6 boards a few years ago (2018-19), when Simmons and Butler was there and Tobi was there. LOL all of them average 8 boards a game. He is an elite rebounder, but like his defense he can't just do it every time because of his massive usage and offensive role.

Sorry Butler averaged 5.3. My point still stands though.

I would term great as being someone like Barkley. I dunno I always thought size wise both Ben and Harris seemed to me like better rebounders. Remember Embiid is massive. He stills does the hands down thing on second rebuys for opponents scoring opportunities off rim outs which I don’t like still to this day just leave the hands up big fella.

I don’t take much into raw accumulation though Ben has nice ORB’s considering the space he covers per game.

Dude I’ve watched every single game he’s my favorite player I know he can’t do it all. I’m more rapt with his passing and vision that’s coming along.

Yup he keeps his hands down because it's tiring. Like I said, conditioning could be an issue, as well as his offensive role. Historically he is an elite rebounder. Can't penalize him for him being too big. He would probably average 15 boards a game if his usage was 15-20. I think the fact that he nearly put up 14 boards a game with Harris and SImmons on the team shows that he is capable.

As with his defense he does it when necessary.

Barkley was not a great rebounder, he was generational.

[Hussien Fatal]

Just quickly as a Sixers fan, Embiid has never been a great rebounder in fact size for size Ben and Harris pips him (Ben’s our best screener and that’s not close either fwiw). He’s absolutely huge duh as the offset but Jokic’s skill prowess as a big is unmatched I can’t think of a big in history as skillful as him defense aside.

Disagree on him never being a great rebounder. He projected as an elite rebounder in college. He averaged 7.8 boards in his rookie year on less than 26 minutes.

Dude averaged 13.6 boards a few years ago (2018-19), when Simmons and Butler was there and Tobi was there. LOL all of them average 8 boards a game. He is an elite rebounder, but like his defense he can't just do it every time because of his massive usage and offensive role.

Sorry Butler averaged 5.3. My point still stands though.

I would term great as being someone like Barkley. I dunno I always thought size wise both Ben and Harris seemed to me like better rebounders. Remember Embiid is massive. He stills does the hands down thing on second rebuys for opponents scoring opportunities off rim outs which I don’t like still to this day just leave the hands up big fella.

I don’t take much into raw accumulation though Ben has nice ORB’s considering the space he covers per game.

Dude I’ve watched every single game he’s my favorite player I know he can’t do it all. I’m more rapt with his passing and vision that’s coming along.

I say top 10 in any category is Elite. Joel is an Elite Rebounder.

[brettski]

This is such a weird argument. These players are not Russell Westbrook.

No they're not. But fact is their teams are bad in rebounding and there might be a correlation with players with amazing individual stats.

it can also just relate to coaching and the way the coach wants the players to play. He may be willing to give up a couple of extra offensive boards a game if it means athletic younger guys can leak out for a great long distance pass from Jokic.

[GSP]

Giannis has been too inconsistent

Jokic and Embiid are the top 2

[Ballerhogger]

Ja with 41 tonight gotta give him some love

[schnakenpopanz]

I don't know if carrying two teams to barely 60% wins is enough beside that their individual performances are off the limits.
so if none of them is getting a top 4 seed it should go to someone else.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G780F mit Tapatalk

[Crives]

Why is Rudy gobert in the poll over Devin Booker?

[SpreeS]

Why is Rudy gobert in the poll over Devin Booker?

Maybe you need to pick Booker or Paul at first

[DutchManDanFan]

Why is Rudy gobert in the poll over Devin Booker?

Maybe you need to pick Booker or Paul at first

Yep. Make a choise between CP3 and Booker and go all in for one of them. One of the Suns should be MVP if they keep this winning %, imo.

[BelgradeNugget]

The number of rebounds look great but it has a lot to do with bad rebounding from his team mates.

Denver top rebounders:
Nikola Jokic 13.8
Aaron Gordon 5.6
Will Barton 4.8
JaMychal Green 3.7

Jokic grabs 32% of his teams rebounds.

Phily top rebounders:
Joel Embiid 10.7
Andre Drummond 8.8
Tobias Harris 7.4
Tyrese Maxey 3.4
Seth Curry 3.4

Embiid grabs 25% of his teams rebounds.

Milwaukee top rebounders:
Giannis Antetokounmpo 11.3
Bobby Portis 9.5
Khris Middleton 5.7
Jrue Holiday 4.6
Pat Connaughton 4.5
Jordan Nwora 4.1

Giannis grabs 23% of his teams rebounds.

Bucks are 2nd in rebounding, Nuggets 26th, 6ers 30th.
Top 4 in rebouding are Memphis, Mil, GSW and Utah. Suns are 7th. You could argue these are the best teams in the league.
Bucks were a great rebounding team with Brook Lopez, who only averages 5 boards per game.

Maybe the centers of Denver and Phily should focus more on boxing out and make sure their team mates get more (easy) boards in stead of grabbing as much as possible them selves to increase their own PER and MVP chances...

Jokic gets 44.8% of his rebounds (6.2) as contested rebounds (#1 in entire NBA), Embiid gets 43.6% (4.7) as contested rebounds (#14), and Giannis gets 32.3% of his rebounds (3.6) as contested, good for #26 in the NBA. Maybe the big man on Milwaukee should focus more on getting in the paint and contesting rebounds instead of hoping they fall to him...

I see you try to be smart but fail miserably. My post was about team stats (Bucks no 2 in rebounding, Nuggets and 6ers in bottom 5) and you counter with individual stats.

If you combine them you can argue that going after every rebound (which leads to more contested boards - no 1 in the league), might not help your team become a better rebounding team.

I see you get big mad when someone calls you out. You literally said "Maybe he should focus on boxing out more", but the dude is fighting for rebounds. If he boxes out his opponent, then he needs to rely on his poor rebounding opponents to fight for them. Does this now make sense to you or do I need to make it even simpler?

If I'm Jokic, and I'm having to fight for almost half my rebounds to secure them, should I box my man out and instead depend on the guys we KNOW are poor rebounders to get them? And what do they do after they get them? Give it right back to me, the best playmaker in the game...

Your logic is nonexistent.

It's a team game. It might be better if every team member tries hard to get boards in stead of leaving them all for Jokic. Obviously this doesn't work very well for his team.

They can't be all bad in rebounding. Maybe it helps if he trusts his team members more and urge them to go for the boards harder.

You would have a good point if you were right but, since you were wrong I would just say 'I see you try to be smart but fail miserably.'
Here are stats (beside one for contested rebounds)
Jokic is 5th in the league in box outs per game

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/box-outs/?sort=BOX_OUTS&dir=1

Well, some might say maybe if he contested more shots he wouldn't be in position to box out and grab contested rebounds. But Jokic is 4th in the league in contested shots per game.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle/?sort=CONTESTED_SHOTS&dir=1

So no, he is not trying to increase his own PER and MVP chances, he is trying to win and do everything he can. Would it be better for Denver if they had better rebounders like Murray who averages around 4 rebounds instead of Morris with 2.9, or MPJ who averages 6.6 instead of Green with 3.3? Yes. Would it be better for the Nuggets if they had backup center who can average more than 3.7 rebs in 15 mins jokic is out (JaMyscal Green and Nnaji)? Yes it would. Would it help if Jokic bring gun to locker room and threaten all who don't rebound that he will shoot them? I don't know, Maybe. Would it be better if Nuggets signed better rebounding bigs? Yes.

BTW Nuggets are 26 in the NBA in rebs per game because they play in slowest pace in NBA.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/traditional/?sort=REB&dir=-1

They are 9th in the league in reb % with Bucks being 11th, so it looks like Giannis should do a little bit more here.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced/?sort=REB_PCT&dir=-1

[feyki]

Start voting tonight, Jokic would get the award.

[whatever_]

I just watched Lebron's highlights against the Nets and I'm baffled.
Man, how can he still be such a bully? It's mind-blowing, it looks like he's floating all over the court.

What a physcal presence. (I know, welcome to the internet)

I'm not saying he must be the MVP but I just wanted to share somewhere my feelings about this.

[MrBigShot]

lol at devin booker's name being mentioned in this thread with the season Jokic and Embiid are having

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Giannis has been too inconsistent

Jokic and Embiid are the top 2

Giannis has scored 26+ since mid December. He didn't play great last night but put up a similar statline to Jokic despite playing the Cavs front line compared to a star-less Nets team. I'm fine with Jokic/Embiid over Giannis but overall Giannis has been relatively consistent at either solid to great most of the year.

[Crives]

lol at devin booker's name being mentioned in this thread with the season Jokic and Embiid are having

9 losses vs 19 & 21 losses

[MrBigShot]

lol at devin booker's name being mentioned in this thread with the season Jokic and Embiid are having

9 losses vs 19 & 21 losses

And what do you think would happen if you were to swap Booker with one of Embiid or Jokic

[Crives]

lol at devin booker's name being mentioned in this thread with the season Jokic and Embiid are having

9 losses vs 19 & 21 losses

And what do you think would happen if you were to swap Booker with one of Embiid or Jokic

It’s a good point. But..

MVP is not best player award. It’s who is the most valuable to their team winning. If Philly or Denver were projected to end the season within a few games I would be fine with mvp to Embiid or Jokic. Just like last year, Jokic ended season only handful of games behind the #1 seed.

If we project forward based on current record… reasonable to do given how far into the season we are:

Phx: 66.3 wins
Denver: 45 wins
Philly: 48.8 wins

The best player on the 66 win team doesn’t get mentioned in the conversation? Has there ever been a team win this many games without having a top 3 MVP candidate?

MVP is not a best record award… but a 21 game to 18 game difference in wins is just massive and shouldn’t be ignored. Booker has been playing like an MVP, give him a 20 game lead in wins and I don’t see how you can make the case against him providing more winning value to his team.

[Infinite Llamas]

lol at devin booker's name being mentioned in this thread with the season Jokic and Embiid are having

9 losses vs 19 & 21 losses

And how much losses was Booker getting before CP3 showed up? It’s fairly obvious who the real MVP of that team is.

[Cubbies2120]

9 losses vs 19 & 21 losses

And what do you think would happen if you were to swap Booker with one of Embiid or Jokic

It’s a good point. But..

MVP is not best player award. It’s who is the most valuable to their team winning. If Philly or Denver were projected to end the season within a few games I would be fine with mvp to Embiid or Jokic. Just like last year, Jokic ended season only handful of games behind the #1 seed.

If we project forward based on current record… reasonable to do given how far into the season we are:

Phx: 66.3 wins
Denver: 45 wins
Philly: 48.8 wins

The best player on the 66 win team doesn’t get mentioned in the conversation? Has there ever been a team win this many games without having a top 3 MVP candidate?

MVP is not a best record award… but a 21 game to 18 game difference in wins is just massive and shouldn’t be ignored. Booker has been playing like an MVP, give him a 20 game lead in wins and I don’t see how you can make the case against him providing more winning value to his team.

It helps when Booker can sit out and his team can go 5-2 without him (and finish off the Warriors when Booker went out they were down 6, outscored the Warriors by 14 when he left the floor for the rest of the game.

Nuggets are 1-4 without Jokic, Sixers 3-8 without Embiid.

[Crives]

And what do you think would happen if you were to swap Booker with one of Embiid or Jokic

It’s a good point. But..

MVP is not best player award. It’s who is the most valuable to their team winning. If Philly or Denver were projected to end the season within a few games I would be fine with mvp to Embiid or Jokic. Just like last year, Jokic ended season only handful of games behind the #1 seed.

If we project forward based on current record… reasonable to do given how far into the season we are:

Phx: 66.3 wins
Denver: 45 wins
Philly: 48.8 wins

The best player on the 66 win team doesn’t get mentioned in the conversation? Has there ever been a team win this many games without having a top 3 MVP candidate?

MVP is not a best record award… but a 21 game to 18 game difference in wins is just massive and shouldn’t be ignored. Booker has been playing like an MVP, give him a 20 game lead in wins and I don’t see how you can make the case against him providing more winning value to his team.

It helps when Booker can sit out and his team can go 5-2 without him (and finish off the Warriors when Booker went out they were down 6, outscored the Warriors by 14 when he left the floor for the rest of the game.

Nuggets are 1-4 without Jokic, Sixers 3-8 without Embiid.

Does not change my point. We really awarding MVP to a team projected to finish with~20 less wins?even if you can’t get onboard with Booker being your favorite, how do you not elevate him to top3?