2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[PhilBlackson]

Embiid should have monster night with Lebron out . See how it goes for him

As if LeBron's defence would've made any difference lol

[Ballerhogger]

Embiid should have monster night with Lebron out . See how it goes for him

As if LeBron's defence would've made any difference lol

sure it would. now tobias has open shots on melo

[AussieBuck]

Lol at the Booker talk. CP3 should be a shoe in for the All NBA 1st team and 1st All NBA defense as well. He’s been the ultimate team raiser wherever he goes to.

Without Jokic/Embiid your looking at the worst team in the comp injuries, guys missing etc, sub par lists anyway. Literally all of their teammates are replaceable. Not to mention Embiid has never played with a quality point guard ever lol same with Jokic.

Both are having outlier impact and face facts to Curry supporters he’s having a woeful stretch for weeks basically a month now. It’s a two horse race with Giannis not far behind.

Without Curry, Giannis and Booker all three teams would make the playoffs guaranteed.

Not the Bucks this season. Team hasn't been what it is on paper and Portis is the only other playable PF or C we have, if Giannis wasn't there we'd be easily below Atlanta. Bucks definitely have more horses than Jokic/Embiid if things were more normal though.

[PhilBlackson]

Embiid should have monster night with Lebron out . See how it goes for him

As if LeBron's defence would've made any difference lol

sure it would. now tobias has open shots on melo

Idc about Tobias...we're talking about Embiid.

LeBron not playing doesn't change what Embiid does. Now if you said AD was out, that would make more sense because that's at least someone who will guard him at times and protect the rim. The Lakers wouldn't wear LBJ out trying to handle Joel.

[Ballerhogger]

As if LeBron's defence would've made any difference lol

sure it would. now tobias has open shots on melo

Idc about Tobias...we're talking about Embiid.

LeBron not playing doesn't change what Embiid does. Now if you said AD was out, that would make more sense because that's at least someone who will guard him at times and protect the rim. The Lakers wouldn't wear LBJ out trying to handle Joel.

lebron has been stad padding rebounds anything slow down embiid is plus.

[PhilBlackson]

sure it would. now tobias has open shots on melo

Idc about Tobias...we're talking about Embiid.

LeBron not playing doesn't change what Embiid does. Now if you said AD was out, that would make more sense because that's at least someone who will guard him at times and protect the rim. The Lakers wouldn't wear LBJ out trying to handle Joel.

lebron has been stad padding rebounds anything slow down embiid is plus.

Now you're just reaching

[DCasey91]

Embiid should have monster night with Lebron out . See how it goes for him

As if LeBron's defence would've made any difference lol

Lebron has killed it this year on defense what are you talking about.

[DCasey91]

Lol at the Booker talk. CP3 should be a shoe in for the All NBA 1st team and 1st All NBA defense as well. He’s been the ultimate team raiser wherever he goes to.

Without Jokic/Embiid your looking at the worst team in the comp injuries, guys missing etc, sub par lists anyway. Literally all of their teammates are replaceable. Not to mention Embiid has never played with a quality point guard ever lol same with Jokic.

Both are having outlier impact and face facts to Curry supporters he’s having a woeful stretch for weeks basically a month now. It’s a two horse race with Giannis not far behind.

Without Curry, Giannis and Booker all three teams would make the playoffs guaranteed.

Not the Bucks this season. Team hasn't been what it is on paper and Portis is the only other playable PF or C we have, if Giannis wasn't there we'd be easily below Atlanta. Bucks definitely have more horses than Jokic/Embiid if things were more normal though.

Yeah the assumption was if all five were missing and the teams were set and normal then yes Bucks would make the playoffs comfortably. Nuggets are way behind on even getting their list up to scratch

It’s been a weird year lol.

[AussieBuck]

Lol at the Booker talk. CP3 should be a shoe in for the All NBA 1st team and 1st All NBA defense as well. He’s been the ultimate team raiser wherever he goes to.

Without Jokic/Embiid your looking at the worst team in the comp injuries, guys missing etc, sub par lists anyway. Literally all of their teammates are replaceable. Not to mention Embiid has never played with a quality point guard ever lol same with Jokic.

Both are having outlier impact and face facts to Curry supporters he’s having a woeful stretch for weeks basically a month now. It’s a two horse race with Giannis not far behind.

Without Curry, Giannis and Booker all three teams would make the playoffs guaranteed.

Not the Bucks this season. Team hasn't been what it is on paper and Portis is the only other playable PF or C we have, if Giannis wasn't there we'd be easily below Atlanta. Bucks definitely have more horses than Jokic/Embiid if things were more normal though.

Yeah the assumption was if all five were missing and the teams were set and normal then yes Bucks would make the playoffs comfortably. Nuggets are way behind on even getting their list up to scratch

It’s been a weird year lol.

Even at that assumption it's too strong a year for teams in the East to say that. They'd probably have to win through the play in.

[PhilBlackson]

Embiid should have monster night with Lebron out . See how it goes for him

As if LeBron's defence would've made any difference lol

Lebron has killed it this year on defense what are you talking about.

He has played some defence, killed it is a stretch lol he would do absolutely nothing to Embiid.

[MrBigShot]

How valuable is it to lead a team that would be a surefire lottery team to the playoffs? If your team can't get a top 3 seed there is a slim chance that the team is going to be playing past the 2nd round.

In terms of championship odds being on a better team inherently makes a player's production more valuable. Another way to think of it is how much value can a player have who has virtually zero impact on which team is hoisting the trophy at the end of the year? His team wouldn't be impacting the race whether he was playing or not.

Not saying Devin Booker or CP3 should be leading the MVP race but it doesn't seem absurd to argue their contributions might have extra value on a league leading team.

This line of thinking is precisely the reason why guys like Booker and Lavine wrongfully got labelled as "empty stats" guys for several years. People put so much emphasis on winning that it becomes a black and white this guy is so great vs this guy is mediocre when the only things that really changed are that they got better teammates. Booker was always a very good guard that can get his own shot and scores within the flow of the offense, even before CP3 arrived. In another year maybe he may deserve some mention, but the difference in impact is just too high.

Stretches of 30+ppg are but his competition consists of Jokic who's a nightly 30 point triple double threat and Embiid who's doing his best Hakeem impression. To put this into perspective, Jokic scores 1 more ppg than Booker despite taking almost 3 less shots a game, and that isn't even taking into account what he contributes with his playmaking. He's competing with 3 first ballot HoF bigs having monster seasons.

[The Moose]

top 3 for me is Jokic/Embiid/Giannis in some order

[Ballerhogger]

Embiid got outplayed tonight still got his 25+ in garage time but Didn’t do himself any favors tonight

[eyeatoma]

I think it's the mark of a truly elite player to have a horrible game and still have 26/9/7 1 STL and 2 blocks.

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[AleksandarN]

I think it's the mark of a truly elite player to have a horrible game and still have 26/9/7 1 STL and 2 blocks.

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Same with Jokic yesterday. Those two are in the league of their own.

[Ballerhogger]

I think it's the mark of a truly elite player to have a horrible game and still have 26/9/7 1 STL and 2 blocks.

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He stat padded quite a bit so the numbers looks skewed.

[eyeatoma]

I think it's the mark of a truly elite player to have a horrible game and still have 26/9/7 1 STL and 2 blocks.

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He stat padded quite a bit so the numbers looks skewed.

Was not his best game, but let's not act like this is an only Embiid incident. Plenty of players do it.

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[Doctor MJ]

Booker does not deserve any kind of serious consideration. He’s simply not playing close to the level that guys like Jokic and Embiid are. Not sure how this is such a difficult concept for people. The best performing team doesn’t have to have the best performing individual player. Embiid, Jokic, Giannis, and Steph are far more important to their teams than Booker is.

MVP is not best performing individual player. It’s most valuable to your team. And if you have a 20 game lead at the end of the season, that’s a lot of extra value you are providing.

And yes, Booker has been putting up mvp type performances.

Read on Twitter

?s=21

You’re approach to value estimation is too coarse.

If you like the idea of attaching value to team performance you’re not alone, but this is why we use plus minus stats - so we don’t reward guys for what is done when they are not playing - and we we make adjustments based on the lineups you play with and against - RAPM and related stats.

As someone who is well-versed in these stats, Booker isn’t a serious candidate to me.

You can and should come to your own conclusions, but do understand that others have taken this approach to value analysis you’re using and taken it to more precise levels and these more precise levels have been used by NBA teams in various capacities for a couple decades.


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[kuclas]

It’s hard to judge the suns record cause of all
The top 10’nba teams. Only phoenix has had there top 2 players (booker and cp3) each play over 40 plus games.

Yes injuries are all part of the game. But the suns will run into major issues if other teams get their top 2 players healthy for the playoffs.

So to me. I can’t consider booker and cp3 cause they aren’t having crazy seasons. And they work together.

Now if cp3 goes out with long injury and suns keep winning at same pace. Sure. I would consider booker.

[Blaze4G]

Lol at the Booker talk. CP3 should be a shoe in for the All NBA 1st team and 1st All NBA defense as well. He’s been the ultimate team raiser wherever he goes to.

Without Jokic/Embiid your looking at the worst team in the comp injuries, guys missing etc, sub par lists anyway. Literally all of their teammates are replaceable. Not to mention Embiid has never played with a quality point guard ever lol same with Jokic.

Both are having outlier impact just to win and face facts to Curry supporters he’s having a woeful stretch for weeks basically a month now. It’s a two horse race with Giannis not far behind.

Even at the start of the season he did play bad games and they would demolish a lotto team by 10+.

Without Curry, Giannis and Booker all three teams would make the playoffs guaranteed.

what you drinking? you must be drunk if you think Warriors make the playoffs without curry . Warriors would probbly be worse than the kings without curry. Giannis I disagree with as well, the east is tough this year. If Giannis wasn't there bucks aint making playoffs. I can see the argument with suns making playoffs without booker.

I do agree that Embidd and Jokic are front runners with Giannis close behind.