2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[Texas Chuck]

oh and if we are bitching about fans we need to look at the votes for Ben Simmons and Grayson Allen to be all-starters by players. Or the media casting as many votes for Klay Thompson as Luka Doncic.

Fans at least are honest about what they are doing. Those who are supposed to know better aren't doing much better.

in fairness only 2 players voted for simmons, that is the nba equivalent of the people who vote for kanye west in usa elections

the media voting for klay is much more damning than 2 players out of 500 voting ben as a troll vote, but again i am low on the average media voter when people like Stephen a smith or skip bayless are voters

Ha just edited. No media voted for Klay. Just none voted for Luka either. Which is totally fine. I should have looked at the details rather than trusting a beat reporter on twitter.

[eminence]

Also only 7 Allstar reserves per conference

[falcolombardi]

i really think that players of current wiggins level get on the all star relatively often on the margins

mike conley (2021), mo williams, jeff teague, etc

the difference is that wiggs was as a starter but if you ignore that part he is not even that bad of a pick (probably should have not been kicked still. but is not like zaza making the all star situation)

[eminence]

Whoa whoa whoa, '21 Conley was notably more deserving. Heck, he's more deserving this season.

[falcolombardi]

Whoa whoa whoa, '21 Conley was notably more deserving. Heck, he's more deserving this season.

for the record i dont think wiggins should have been picked and i agree that conley is better even now

but wiggins is not the first player who gets in the margins without having a truly clear "all star level" season

i may have been underating 21' conley now that i think about it, definitely a worthy all star who had to get in as a reserve because of tough competition, not the same as wiggins or mo williams which were more firmily in "above average player overperforming" territory

[eminence]

Whoa whoa whoa, '21 Conley was notably more deserving. Heck, he's more deserving this season.

for the record i dont think wiggins should have been picked and i agree that conley is better even now

but wiggins is not the first player who gets in the margins without having a truly clear "all star level" season

i may have been underating 21' conley now that i think about it, definitely a worthy all star who had to get in as a reserve because of tough competition, not the same as wiggins or mo williams which were more firmily in "above average player overperforming" territory

Mmkay, just making sure Mike was getting his due respect

I agree on being on the side that it's fine that Wiggins is in, though a bit silly he's a starter.

[eminence]

Conley/Sabonis/Jrue/Mikal the biggest omissions from the top voting lists for me.

Gobert/Garland probably the most underrated by those who made it onto the lists, think both would've been starters for me.

[Doctor MJ]

Is Wiggins the worst player/season to ever be an All-Star starter?

Thinking there might be some guys in the 2000s East who'd be worse but don't know for sure.

Off the top of my head:

Yao Ming as a rookie.
Kobe Bryant as a teenager and in his final 3 years.

The Wiggins pick stands out though because we're long past the hope that he could ever become worthy of being an all-star starter at peak. It's weird. Fans seem to have jumped on the Wiggins bandwagon as if he were a plucky underdog rather than someone who has been overpaid every year of his career.

All that might sound like I think Wiggins is terrible, but the truth is actually that I think he belongs in the all-star conversation this year, and I'd feel a definite pull to pick him as the 3rd Warrior all-star if the team had the top seed.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Is Wiggins the worst player/season to ever be an All-Star starter?

Thinking there might be some guys in the 2000s East who'd be worse but don't know for sure.

Off the top of my head:

Yao Ming as a rookie.
Kobe Bryant as a teenager and in his final 3 years.

The Wiggins pick stands out though because we're long past the hope that he could ever become worthy of being an all-star starter at peak. It's weird. Fans seem to have jumped on the Wiggins bandwagon as if he were a plucky underdog rather than someone who has been overpaid every year of his career.

All that might sound like I think Wiggins is terrible, but the truth is actually that I think he belongs in the all-star conversation this year, and I'd feel a definite pull to pick him as the 3rd Warrior all-star if the team had the top seed.

BJ Armstrong in 94 and Zaza too

[Doctor MJ]

Is Wiggins the worst player/season to ever be an All-Star starter?

Thinking there might be some guys in the 2000s East who'd be worse but don't know for sure.

Off the top of my head:

Yao Ming as a rookie.
Kobe Bryant as a teenager and in his final 3 years.

The Wiggins pick stands out though because we're long past the hope that he could ever become worthy of being an all-star starter at peak. It's weird. Fans seem to have jumped on the Wiggins bandwagon as if he were a plucky underdog rather than someone who has been overpaid every year of his career.

All that might sound like I think Wiggins is terrible, but the truth is actually that I think he belongs in the all-star conversation this year, and I'd feel a definite pull to pick him as the 3rd Warrior all-star if the team had the top seed.

BJ Armstrong in 94 and Zaza too

Wait hold on, Zaza Pachulia was never an all-star, are you talking about someone else?

Also, was BJ actually voted in as a starter? If we’re just talking about the worst fringe all-stars, that’s a bigger conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Statlanta]

Everbody's going to have biases and vote what they like. Fans voting for Zaza, Players voting for their teammates, Media members voting Carmelo over LeBron for MVP. Coaches voting for former players. I mean you can't make this fool-proof. It is a fan exhibition. At the end of the day even the PC Board rarely talks about BJ Armstrong/Jamaal Magloire types and this is the corner of the Internet that should care about that stuff.

[eminence]

I'd have both Dray and Wiggins as pretty fringe all-star at this point, probably both on the outside looking in. Dray's missed a bunch of time at this point and wasn't top 10 prior, so he's probably out for me.

And I'm a pretty dang big Dray fan.

[SeniorWalker]

I also thought Wiggins was an all-star this year but not a starter by any means. I thought he'd make it on the end of the reserves list. This is a bit awkward.

It seems like many of the typically elite players are having down years. Outside of Jokic campaign I'm not too impressed by anyone in particular right now. This is a weird season.

[mikejames23]

I am happy for Wiggins. I actually thought he deserved all-star consideration this year. His numbers and defense both look good. He's actually #2 in W/S on warriors.

In contrast, Fan Voting is always kind of random, so that's that. A simple popularity contest. They get the top players right because that's obvious. After that, their intellect goes missing. They also seem to think guys like Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook are still great.

We should vote on actual all stars this year for the heck of it.

[Clyde Frazier]

Read on Twitter

I don't have time to look into this right now, but I guess this odd weighing of the media vote is what helped Wiggins get in? I thought the fan vote counting for less was supposed to correct for these selections.

That said, i stopped caring about all star starters years ago. I do think Wiggins deserved consideration to make it as a reserve. I also think the league should move to 15 spots per conference considering the massive expansion since the late 60s... but yeah.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Off the top of my head:

Yao Ming as a rookie.
Kobe Bryant as a teenager and in his final 3 years.

The Wiggins pick stands out though because we're long past the hope that he could ever become worthy of being an all-star starter at peak. It's weird. Fans seem to have jumped on the Wiggins bandwagon as if he were a plucky underdog rather than someone who has been overpaid every year of his career.

All that might sound like I think Wiggins is terrible, but the truth is actually that I think he belongs in the all-star conversation this year, and I'd feel a definite pull to pick him as the 3rd Warrior all-star if the team had the top seed.

BJ Armstrong in 94 and Zaza too

Wait hold on, Zaza Pachulia was never an all-star, are you talking about someone else?

Also, was BJ actually voted in as a starter? If we’re just talking about the worst fringe all-stars, that’s a bigger conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Apologies regarding Zaza. But yeah BJ was a starter

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1994-01-28-9401280175-story.html

[Peregrine01]

I think the chances that Jokic gets a 2nd MVP are a lot higher than many think. Denver looks like they're sucking less with Jokic off the floor and they have a really good chance ending up with the 5th seed with their remaining schedule. Plus, the narrative is shifting with Ben's video.

[LukaTheGOAT]

I just feel kind of concerned because contracts are connected to make all-star games for some guys. But then again, the NBA is entertainment so being exciting and popular I suppose is apart of the job description.

[Colbinii]

I just feel kind of concerned because contracts are connected to make all-star games for some guys. But then again, the NBA is entertainment so being exciting and popular I suppose is apart of the job description.

Yeah, we should never forget the NBA is an entertainment and Marketing company first and foremost.

[The-Power]

Read on Twitter

I don't have time to look into this right now, but I guess this odd weighing of the media vote is what helped Wiggins get in? I thought the fan vote counting for less was supposed to correct for these selections.

I don't know what this person is even talking about. The process is pretty straightforward. Each player is ranked according to the votes they got from an entity. If you got the most media votes, you are ranked #1 in this category, second most and you're ranked #2 and so on. Then, it's just weighted to make fan vote as important as media and player voting combined.

(Fan Rank * 2 + Player Rank + Media Rank)/4

That's the formula that can be looked up here: https://pr.nba.com/voting-results-2022-nba-all-star-game-starters/.

Now, you can argue that using simply the ranking instead of totals punishes players with higher shares, and that'd be fair. But: in this case, the person complains about Jokic and LeBron in comparison to Wiggins, when both of them are starters in their own right. So it's really a moot point.

Lastly, yes, they wanted some correction to the fan vote. But Wiggins is an All-Star because – and that's important – there were enough media members and players who voted for him! Wiggins was 3rd in fan vote, 4th in media votes and 5th in player votes for the Western frontcourt. If they took out the fan vote entirely, Draymond and Gobert would have jumped ahead of Wiggins – deservedly so – but it's not like Wiggins would have been far down the list without the fan vote. He'd still have been 5th (instead of 3rd).