Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

[FAH1223]

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Trade season is officially upon us.

"other than Beal"

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[FAH1223]

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[nate33]

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Morey is on crack if he thinks he can get teams to throw in a bunch of 1sts in a Simmons deal. Nobody else is buying it.

Just trade Simmons for the best actual player you can get and be done with it!

[Dolevi]

Is White better than Dinwiddie? Their numbers look similar IMO. I'm not really seeing the upgrade, and if you trade Kuzma, you're trading your only semi-consistent forward. I haven't seen any semblance of consistency from the other 3/4 options on the roster.

At this point, the team really has to make a decision on Kuzma vs. Rui going forward. And Rui hasn't shown much in his career.

I've checked that data of both players while playing at least 20 min a game.
White is apparently a better defender, and stats can show that.

If i'll take the last 15 GP of both players - Defensive rating of White = 104.5 against a 108.5 by Dinwiddie. Overall White's Net rating is also better, +1.4 lead for White. If i check it from the beginning of the season still White has a lead of 0.7 versus -1.8 of Dinwiddie.

Also when both players play games over 20 min (i think it might be the two of them): White is averaging 1.1 STLs & 0.9 BLKs per game, While Dinwiddie instead is on 0.6 STLs & 0.2 BLKs per game. I think it's not obvious at all. Derrick is even shorter than Spencer yet he's blocking more. In my opinion plus the difference in the Steals for White, Derrick is a signifinacy a better defender (eye's test confirms that as well i think).

U can see also some logical data which is saying Derrick's %AST 2PM+3PM (and overall %AST FGM) are a lot better than Dinwiddie's - 45.7% compare to 26%. Shots that come from assist usually will be a better look than a pull up or 1on1 play, will be less contested, less difficult to make. And u can think for yourself what the stats will show in the "Un-Assisted" Category.

Also importantly - He has an advantage of 8% against 1.9% in % FB PTS, Derrick is running the floor more and seems like an active guy not just in D but also in O. More than Dinwiddie.

About EFG% and TS%:
White - 48.5 EFG%, 53.8 TS%
Dinwiddie - 46.2 EFG%, 51.4%

Once again, data confirms White's scoring abilities are better, and he creates more points.

Want a data on Defense?
White's DFG% is 43.9, his FG% is 45.1%
Dinwiddie's DFG% is 47.3.. his FG% is 45.1%, what a coincedence
That's 3.4% Difference in defense between these 2 players. DFG% is the defended field goals made divided to the defended field goals attempted.

I can find also some statistics about Dinwiddie's pull ups compare to his (he probably won't have much - White, i prefer that compare to 30.8% from the 3 by Dinwiddie with 3 attempts in a game!).

White has 1/4 of the total team Blocks per a game. That's also huge for his defense. Overall in offense you won't see any difference between these players, but if you getting a little deeper you can tell White's offensive game is better overall for the team, and moreover and more importantly - his defense compared to Dinwiddie is another level. That's about what you've said in the start - that numbers look similiar.


Bottom line, it might be a good deal bringing him here. I would try to make with them a deal somehow, trying including Dinwiddie in it (and Bertans), maybe Kuz/Rui is also an option somehow.

[nate33]

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If we followed that trade with a Beal for Simmons trade, I'd be pretty happy.

Yeah, we'd have a lot of work to do to rebalance our roster (too many bigs and not enough guards) but a duo of Sabonis and Simmons as 25-year-old All-Stars is a pretty solid foundation. Kispert, Bertans and Aaron Holiday fit pretty well as catch-and-shoot guys around them. Trade Harrell and Bryant for 2nd round picks.

PG Dinwiddie/Holiday
SG Kispert
SF Simmons/Bertans
PF Hachimura
C Sabonis/Gafford

Find a good guard/forward who can create a little off the bounce and that's a pretty good team.

[pcbothwel]

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Trade season is officially upon us.

"other than Beal"

Well...Yeah. I mean good lord guys. Simmons is a mentally weak diva that demanded to be traded and has elected to sit out... and his GM is barely open to trades with him. You think our FO is going leak that Beal is available when he has been the opposite in regards to this franchise?

Im very much okay with us not moving Beal, so long as we dont try some half assed attempt to keep him and give up a young asset (I.E. Kuz + Rui for Grant).
If we sell off Harrell, Kuz, Dinwiddie, etc. for better future assets, then im good with that.
Remember 2 things:
1) There is a VERY small chance via FA. He'll either resign or we'll get assets in a SnT
2) Beals decision to stay or go wont be comparing the 21/22 team to another team, but the 22/23 team. If Sharper, Mathurin, Griffin and Murray all go in the 5-9 range and we pick 10/11, I would have no issue moving that pick along with pieces to get a legit AS caliber player. Especially if we make some shrewd moves in the next 6 months to get some value out of our tradeable assets.

Im still very curious with what happens with Rui. He is clearly working his way back, but his rebounding is up quite a bit and his 3 ball is falling. His 3PAr has doubled since his rookie year and his % has gone up 4% point each of the last two years (29%, 33%, 37%)

[NatP4]

I would probably do that trade for Sabonis. You get one of the best players in the league on an insanely good contract. KCP and Kuzma suck, you lose nothing there. A 2025 1st and Avdija seems fair in terms of value.

We would still need to acquire a quality 3rd guard. I would still try and move Bryant or Rui to the Spurs for D White.

[nate33]

I would probably do that trade for Sabonis. You get one of the best players in the league on an insanely good contract. KCP and Kuzma suck, you lose nothing there. A 2025 1st and Avdija seems fair in terms of value.

We would still need to acquire a quality 3rd guard. I would still try and move Bryant or Rui to the Spurs for D White.

I actually think Holiday would be a quality fit at PG alongside Simmons. Holiday can D-up and shoot, his problem is that he's isn't a great decision-maker with the ball. That's mitigated with Simmons at PG. Finagle the rotation so Dinwiddie can be the 3rd guard who can run the offense when Simmons sits.

I'm not in love with White's fit with Simmons since his 3-ball is so suspect. It'll be hard enough to space the floor with Simmons and Sabonis out there. We don't really want a PG who can't shoot either. I like White as a player, but only on the right kind of team.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

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Trade season is officially upon us.

"other than Beal"

Well...Yeah. I mean good lord guys. Simmons is a mentally weak diva that demanded to be traded and has elected to sit out... and his GM is barely open to trades with him. You think our FO is going leak that Beal is available when he has been the opposite in regards to this franchise?

Im very much okay with us not moving Beal, so long as we dont try some half assed attempt to keep him and give up a young asset (I.E. Kuz + Rui for Grant).
If we sell off Harrell, Kuz, Dinwiddie, etc. for better future assets, then im good with that.
Remember 2 things:
1) There is a VERY small chance via FA. He'll either resign or we'll get assets in a SnT
2) Beals decision to stay or go wont be comparing the 21/22 team to another team, but the 22/23 team. If Sharper, Mathurin, Griffin and Murray all go in the 5-9 range and we pick 10/11, I would have no issue moving that pick along with pieces to get a legit AS caliber player. Especially if we make some shrewd moves in the next 6 months to get some value out of our tradeable assets.

Im still very curious with what happens with Rui. He is clearly working his way back, but his rebounding is up quite a bit and his 3 ball is falling. His 3PAr has doubled since his rookie year and his % has gone up 4% point each of the last two years (29%, 33%, 37%)

It is going to awesome to watch this franchise throw away all its assets to appease Beal for players that are just not going to move the needle for us and we still get beat as the tenth seed in the play-in tournament. You'll still have a terribly flawed player eating up $50M in cap space. No matter who you trade for, that will continue to be a reality.

We literally can't get out of our own damn way.

[Dark Faze]

There's just too much wrong with this team for Sabonis to even fit well right now. Gafford/Sabonis/Beal/Dinwiddie....ugh, Sabonis will be a year away from being an expiring as early as this summer, and Beal will be a threat to demand a trade the second the ink dries on his next contract.

[NatP4]

There's just too much wrong with this team for Sabonis to even fit well right now. Gafford/Sabonis/Beal/Dinwiddie....ugh, Sabonis will be a year away from being an expiring as early as this summer, and Beal will be a threat to demand a trade the second the ink dries on his next contract.

Sabonis is elite and on a good contract. If we can acquire him for a future 1st and Avdija, you do it regardless of the Beal situation.

We can still turn around and move Beal to Philly for Simmons and a pick. That might be a good situation, especially if we can very slowly ease Simmons into the lineup, maybe make up an injury for Sabonis, and continue to tank into the top 5. We are only 6 games up from the 5th worst record.

Shaedon Sharpe is a generational superstar talent that will probably go outside the top 3 simply because he won’t play all year long for Kentucky.

I’ll take a future core of Sabonis, Simmons, and Sharpe.

[Illuminaire]

Ted and his hand-picked henchman squandering future draft picks to marginally upgrade a low-end trendmill roster, while desperately clinging to a second tier star entering the twilight of their prime is the most #sowiz thing this franchise could do.

The best part is how the marginal upgrade will lift the team juuuuust enough to avoid picking up a new star in the draft.

[FAH1223]

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[gambitx777]

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Trade season is officially upon us.

"other than Beal"

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This is a horrible trade.

Lisa has been good. Deni has so much potential and a first. . . **** off. The only way I consider parting with deni and a first is if bertans is going out.

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[TGW]

A warriors blogger who toiled with the idea of Sabonis to the Warriors wrote this:

. With Sabonis and Turner on the floor (459 minutes), the Pacers allow 102.2 points per 100 possessions — equivalent to the second-best defense. With Sabonis on the floor without Turner (461 minutes), the floodgates open — 112.1 points allowed per 100 possessions, equivalent to the fourth-worst defense in the league.

Such data implies that Sabonis can survive in an ecosystem where there is ample defensive support behind him, anchored by a Defensive-Player-of-the-Year-caliber teammate. Coupled with a strong culture of defensive accountability, the concerns about Sabonis’ defense — while valid — may be slightly overblown.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.goldenstateofmind.com/platform/amp/2021/12/9/22825290/warriors-domantas-sabonis-myles-turner-james-wiseman-film-breakdown

The guy the Wizards should be targeting is Turner, not Sabonis.

[nate33]

A warriors blogger who toiled with the idea of Sabonis to the Warriors wrote this:

. With Sabonis and Turner on the floor (459 minutes), the Pacers allow 102.2 points per 100 possessions — equivalent to the second-best defense. With Sabonis on the floor without Turner (461 minutes), the floodgates open — 112.1 points allowed per 100 possessions, equivalent to the fourth-worst defense in the league.

Such data implies that Sabonis can survive in an ecosystem where there is ample defensive support behind him, anchored by a Defensive-Player-of-the-Year-caliber teammate. Coupled with a strong culture of defensive accountability, the concerns about Sabonis’ defense — while valid — may be slightly overblown.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.goldenstateofmind.com/platform/amp/2021/12/9/22825290/warriors-domantas-sabonis-myles-turner-james-wiseman-film-breakdown

The guy the Wizards should be targeting is Turner, not Sabonis.

This is a good point. Particularly if the guys we are giving up in the trade include Avdija and KCP. Our perimeter defense is going to be a mess, and Sabonis makes it worse.

[NatP4]

In that scenario, who would even play on the wing for us? Maybe the move Rui to the perimeter (like they should)??
Maybe we unleash Joel Ayayi and have a full Gonzaga squad? He is still averaging 13-7-7 on 64% TS and would be a perfect fit as an off-ball guard with Sabonis.

Dinwiddie Neto
Beal Holiday??? Ayayi??
Rui Kispert
Sabonis Bertans
Gafford Harrell Bryant

Maybe that move maximizes Rui’s potential. He’s never going to be a good NBA PF, but there’s hope if we move him full time to the wing and tell him to just launch 3s and play man to man defense.

Dropping Kuzma and KCP makes everyone better, ESPECIALLY Gafford. It allows us to play Kispert a lot more, who is a really good young player.

[NatP4]

If you could trick them into taking Rui instead of Avdija, it’s a home run. That would be an insulting offer to Indiana though.

[gambitx777]

If you could trick them into taking Rui instead of Avdija, it’s a home run. That would be an insulting offer to Indiana though.

I don't think it's insulting . Rui, bertans and frirst should be the offer. I would not include r
Deni or Kuz. And if that's not enough ok walk away and move on.

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[queridiculo]

This is playing out just about as poorly as I expected when Grunfeld blew it in 2016.

It was so obvious, and now, with a chance of a clean slate rebuild, the Wizards under Leonsis leadership are going to blow it again.

The fact that Leonsis felt compelled to say that they will never ever ever tank is the pinnacle of stupidity, especially considering that he's also firmly content with just making the playoffs.

Washington will never, ever, ever be a contender under this current leadership and ownership structure.

Beal will ride his super max contract into the sunset and the fans will be left holding the bag while Washington misses out on yet another generational draft in 2023.