2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

AleksandarN · Post #1601 » by **AleksandarN** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:02 am

scrabbarista · Post #1602 » by **scrabbarista** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:07 am

Sgt Major wrote:

Read on Twitter

In case y'all didn't catch it, Jokic is first in offense and defense.

(And Jalen Green might be the worst player in the league.)

scrabbarista · Post #1603 » by **scrabbarista** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:14 am

AleksandarN wrote:

Read on Twitter

Almost a 30-point triple double at 60/50/90?

"Another level" is right!

Infinite Llamas · Post #1604 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:21 am

At least the Jokic opposition can’t use the “barely over .500” these days. Two games out of fourth place with an easy schedule the rest of the way.

The fact that Jokic averages almost as many assists as last year without Murray or Porter is downright miraculous

scrabbarista · Post #1605 » by **scrabbarista** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:27 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:At least the Jokic opposition can’t use the “barely over .500” these days. Two games out of fourth place with an easy schedule the rest of the way.

The fact that Jokic averages almost as many assists as last year without Murray or Porter is downright miraculous

Honestly, the single most impressive stat Jokic has in his favor right now (imho) is the team's record. Jokic has pretty much had one above-average teammate all season (Aaron Gordon)! That's insane! I mean, all due respect to the other guys, cuz I guess they've stepped up and they're on the team, too, but this team would be an absolute disaster without Jokic.

scrabbarista · Post #1606 » by **scrabbarista** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:30 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:At least the Jokic opposition can’t use the “barely over .500” these days. Two games out of fourth place with an easy schedule the rest of the way.

The fact that Jokic averages almost as many assists as last year without Murray or Porter is downright miraculous

I watch the team and complete individual highlights for Jokic for just about every game, and the amount of layups, dunks, and practice shots he sets up is really special. He averages that many assists because the shots he's setting up are just that easy. I don't think I've ever seen a player lift his teammates on offense as much as Jokic.

BoatsNZones · Post #1607 » by **BoatsNZones** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:51 am

Curious how epm/Raptor would actually adjust if Jokic played with then bench even a bit. They attempt an adjustment, but how real is it unless in practice.

Never seen a star spend so few minutes with the 2nd unit. He’s incredible, but…

Infinite Llamas · Post #1608 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:05 am

BoatsNZones wrote:Curious how epm/Raptor would actually adjust if Jokic played with then bench even a bit. They attempt an adjustment, but how real is it unless in practice.

Never seen a star spend so few minutes with the 2nd unit. He’s incredible, but…

For most teams, Morris, Barton, Jeff Green, Rivers would be the second unit…

MartyConlonOnTheRun · Post #1609 » by **MartyConlonOnTheRun** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:29 am

Watch on YouTube

Whopper_Sr · Post #1610 » by **Whopper_Sr** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:37 am

BoatsNZones wrote:Curious how epm/Raptor would actually adjust if Jokic played with then bench even a bit. They attempt an adjustment, but how real is it unless in practice.

Never seen a star spend so few minutes with the 2nd unit. He’s incredible, but…

He's been playing with the bench the entire season. Only Gordon is a starter level guy.

AussieBuck · Post #1611 » by **AussieBuck** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:59 am

Giannis is third in the league with with a 30.9 PER. :lol:

1st, 11th and 16th all time seasons as it stands. Big men reclaiming the NBA, brings a tear to the eye.

Janko035 · Post #1612 » by **Janko035** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:21 am

Basketball Reference MVP tracker odds haven't been posted here for a while. Here's how they stand now:

1. Nikola Jokic 43.1 %
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo 18.3 %
3. Joel Embiid 9.9 %
4. Chris Paul 7.8 %
5. Kevin Durant 5.4 %
6. Stephen Curry 4.1
7. Rudy Gobert 3.6 %
8. James Harden 2.9 %
9. Lebron James 2.5 %
10. Ja Morant 2.4 %

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

AussieBuck · Post #1613 » by **AussieBuck** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:32 am

Janko035 wrote:Basketball Reference MVP tracker odds haven't been posted here for a while. Here's how they stand now:

1. Nikola Jokic 43.1 %
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo 18.3 %
3. Joel Embiid 9.9 %
4. Chris Paul 7.8 %
5. Kevin Durant 5.4 %
6. Stephen Curry 4.1
7. Rudy Gobert 3.6 %
8. James Harden 2.9 %
9. Lebron James 2.5 %
10. Ja Morant 2.4 %

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

I've been meaning to do an update but was waiting for Durant's odds to wash out for accuracy. Will be interesting to see what happens if there's a decent enough win gap between Giannis or Embiid vs Jokic and the solid advanced stat gap remains. Will the Westbrook exception come up again or will wins take it?

Janko035 · Post #1614 » by **Janko035** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:45 am

AussieBuck wrote:I've been meaning to do an update but was waiting for Durant's odds to wash out for accuracy. Will be interesting to see what happens if there's a decent enough win gap between Giannis or Embiid vs Jokic and the solid advanced stat gap remains. Will the Westbrook exception come up again or will wins take it?

Now that Denver is 2 wins away from 4th spot in the West, additional question imposes itself: how exactly do we define "Westbrook exception"? Is it below top 3 or below top 4 or...?

AussieBuck · Post #1615 » by **AussieBuck** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:51 am

Janko035 wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:I've been meaning to do an update but was waiting for Durant's odds to wash out for accuracy. Will be interesting to see what happens if there's a decent enough win gap between Giannis or Embiid vs Jokic and the solid advanced stat gap remains. Will the Westbrook exception come up again or will wins take it?

Now that Denver is 2 wins away from 4th spot in the West, additional question imposes itself: how exactly do we define "Westbrook exception"? Is it below top 3 or below top 4 or...?

Not taking shots broseph, just talking about a hypothetical of like 48 wins and better stats vs maybe 54 wins and slightly lesser stats.

Could be seeding making the gap look bigger too. Seems there's a floor at 6th seed in the West but a harder to reach ceiling for the Nuggets given injuries and a lack of talent otherwise. Dallas looks like the only real takeover target for Jokic given rosters, whereas one of Embiid or Giannis could snatch the 1st seed in the East given how open it looks and the possibility of either a settled roster to finish the season for the Bucks (3.3 minutes a game together for the starters so far(not counting Lopez who might be done)) or a Simmons trade strengthening the Sixers.

Edit to add in case there's any particularly frisky Jokic fans out there, I'm not comparing Jokic's season to Westbrook's MVP campaign outside of it being a likely sub 50 win one.

Also for the Westbrook fans, I legit respect all the late game heroics Russ put on that season to snatch the award.

BoatsNZones · Post #1616 » by **BoatsNZones** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:06 am

AussieBuck wrote:Giannis is third in the league with with a 30.9 PER.

1st, 11th and 16th all time seasons as it stands. Big men reclaiming the NBA, brings a tear to the eye.

PER?

Get off this ESPN nonsense from yester year kids.

Is FG% next?

DutchManDanFan · Post #1617 » by **DutchManDanFan** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:19 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:At least the Jokic opposition can’t use the “barely over .500” these days. Two games out of fourth place with an easy schedule the rest of the way.

Nope. But looking at their list of games played I don’t see a win against a good (healthy) team recently. Next 3 games (@ MIl, Min & Utah) are huge. Win 2 and it’s hard to argue against him anymore. 3 losses and it’s another story.

AussieBuck · Post #1618 » by **AussieBuck** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:20 am

BoatsNZones wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:Giannis is third in the league with with a 30.9 PER.

1st, 11th and 16th all time seasons as it stands. Big men reclaiming the NBA, brings a tear to the eye.

PER?

Get off this ESPN nonsense kids.

Hi there upset Curry fan, PER is indeed not the most useful general stat, but it does do a good job of aggregating high volume offense leaning stats for stars into one number, even if it doesn't really account for added defensive impact. Curry's magical 2016 season sits impressively at 10th all time. That's a mark to be proud of IMO, though I can see his current 21.6 mark not sitting well with you. (right there with his 3rd and 4th seasons)

One nice number to tell me that Jokic's per minute, scaled to the current season numbers are indeed the best ever is kinda neat though. If there's going to be a season trumping Giannis' Covid interrupted 2020 masterpiece for best ever, I'm not mad it's Jokic's magnum opus.

Can't say I consume any ESPN media being an Australian who gets his NBA purely from watching games from league pass though. Isn't their thing that RPM stat that doesn't seem to exist anymore?

BoatsNZones · Post #1619 » by **BoatsNZones** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:28 am

Janko035 wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:I've been meaning to do an update but was waiting for Durant's odds to wash out for accuracy. Will be interesting to see what happens if there's a decent enough win gap between Giannis or Embiid vs Jokic and the solid advanced stat gap remains. Will the Westbrook exception come up again or will wins take it?

Now that Denver is 2 wins away from 4th spot in the West, additional question imposes itself: how exactly do we define "Westbrook exception"? Is it below top 3 or below top 4 or...?

Must have done something never before done in the past 50 years and thought to have been impossible (that was the thought at the time).

Also, finish the season on a 50 point triple double and hit a ridiculous game winning 3.

Westbrook went nuts to end that season. Harden was going to win until Russ went out of control.

BoatsNZones · Post #1620 » by **BoatsNZones** » Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:37 am

AussieBuck wrote:
BoatsNZones wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:Giannis is third in the league with with a 30.9 PER.

1st, 11th and 16th all time seasons as it stands. Big men reclaiming the NBA, brings a tear to the eye.

PER?

Get off this ESPN nonsense kids.

Hi there upset Curry fan, PER is indeed not the most useful general stat, but it does do a good job of aggregating high volume offense leaning stats for stars into one number, even if it doesn't really account for added defensive impact. Curry's magical 2016 season sits impressively at 10th all time. That's a mark to be proud of IMO, though I can see his current 21.6 mark not sitting well with you. (right there with his 3rd and 4th seasons)

One nice number to tell me that Jokic's per minute, scaled to the current season numbers are indeed the best ever is kinda neat though. If there's going to be a season trumping Giannis' Covid interrupted 2020 masterpiece for best ever, I'm not mad it's Jokic's magnum opus.

Can't say I consume any ESPN media being an Australian who gets his NBA purely from watching games from league pass though. Isn't their thing that RPM stat that doesn't seem to exist anymore?

It just makes you look silly. EPM/RAPTOR as far as advanced stats go actually hold merit. Team record, on/off TS% of teammates when said player is on the floor would ideally be considered.

If we’re being basic, show me preseason expectations of teams relative to where they are currently standing.

And yes, I am laughing at PER. You’re way smarter than that.

Who is the MVP so far? (Poll Re-set 1/14/22)