Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

[gambitx777]

Well I think that's the thing right. Tanking implys you wanna loose, rebuilding is just that. I don't believe in tanking. Putting a young team put there who plays hard and wants to win while rebuilding should be the goal.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[nate33]

If you could trick them into taking Rui instead of Avdija, it’s a home run. That would be an insulting offer to Indiana though.

I don't think it's insulting . Rui, bertans and frirst should be the offer. I would not include r
Deni or Kuz. And if that's not enough ok walk away and move on.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

C'mon now. Rui, a bad contract, and a distant future 1st isn't getting Sabonis.

If we could get Sabonis without including any of Beal, Avdija or KCP, that would be an absolute home run.

[nate33]

Well I think that's the thing right. Tanking implys you wanna loose, rebuilding is just that. I don't believe in tanking. Putting a young team put there who plays hard and wants to win while rebuilding should be the goal.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Players don't tank. Front offices do. Most would agree that you never instruct your players to try and lose. That builds bad habits. What you do is ensure that they can't win consistently.

OKC is doing it right. They've got some talented players that they're developing like SGA and Giddey. But they make sure that they have absolute dreck in the front court with no decent defenders and no complimentary shooters.

[gambitx777]

If you could trick them into taking Rui instead of Avdija, it’s a home run. That would be an insulting offer to Indiana though.

I don't think it's insulting . Rui, bertans and frirst should be the offer. I would not include r
Deni or Kuz. And if that's not enough ok walk away and move on.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

C'mon now. Rui, a bad contract, and a distant future 1st isn't getting Sabonis.

If we could get Sabonis without including any of Beal, Avdija or KCP, that would be an absolute home run.

KCP would be fine but I'm not trading our best young player, our second best player over 25 and a first.

I don't mind being told no but I have no desire to over pay. Yes he's a very gooooooood player and I love his game he fits well with gafford. But I think that's too much.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[payitforward]

Pretty much every one of these trades shares the common flaw of magical thinking: we trade a, b & c for x, y & z, and... we get so much better! Wow!

If that were so, then our trading partner would have to get "so much" worse by way of that trade. Sorry, no.

The only way that might happen is if you trade for a young guy who develops optimally or even better than expected.

As with any rule, there may be exceptions which, as they say, prove the rule. The point about exceptions is that they are rare. Simmons, for example, looks like he might be traded for less than he's worth. Sabonis sure won't be!

Just about the worst thing we could do is trade away our young players. Any of them. Just as bad would be to trade away picks.

I imagine that's what we're going to do. I can see us trading Deni, Bryant & a R1 pick (maybe more than one) for Sabonis.

Then we'll re-sign Brad at the supermax, & the next five years will be down the drain. Count on it.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

This is playing out just about as poorly as I expected when Grunfeld blew it in 2016.

It was so obvious, and now, with a chance of a clean slate rebuild, the Wizards under Leonsis leadership are going to blow it again.

The fact that Leonsis felt compelled to say that they will never ever ever tank is the pinnacle of stupidity, especially considering that he's also firmly content with just making the playoffs.

Washington will never, ever, ever be a contender under this current leadership and ownership structure.

Beal will ride his super max contract into the sunset and the fans will be left holding the bag while Washington misses out on yet another generational draft in 2023.

We’re basically acting like we are the Lakers with Lebron James. Trading the farm to appease Beal now when you could very likely see him gone in a season or two. The only problem is he’s not even close to the player that even an old Lebron James is and we are not the Lakers who basically benefit from a loophole of being a storied franchise in Los Angeles that can always attract the biggest talents and not give a crap about the draft by-and-large.

[nate33]

Simmons, for example, looks like he might be traded for less than he's worth. Sabonis sure won't be!

Agreed. And hopefully Beal is still valued in the trade market at a level higher than his actual on-court impact. If we can trade an overvalued guy for an undervalued guy, we should do it. The fact that Simmons is 3 years younger is just gravy.

The key here is that it is rare to acquire a guy at below market value. Simmons happens to be one of those rare opportunities. Whether or not Simmons is the guy for us in the long run is undetermined. But Simmons the trade asset will be more valuable than Beal the trade asset as soon as next year. I guarantee that. Simmons will get back on the court and his regular season play (and the fact that he is actually playing) will help people forget the past 6 months. His value will rise. And Beal is about to sign a contract that will instantly make him a negative value guy. His value will fall.

[DCZards]

Simmons value will only rise if he’s committed to working on the shortcomings in his game and not being a diva. I hope he does those things because he’s certainly a very good player.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Simmons and Harris for Beal, Dimwit and Bertans works.

Simmons Holiday Neto
KCP Krispy
Harris Deni
Kuz Rui
Gafford Trez Bryant

[NatP4]

I’ve come around to the Beal for Simmons+Philly 2022 1st and filler.

You’ve gotta move Harrell for a late 1st also, and let Bryant play as a stretch 5 next to Simmons.

That would give you 3 total 1st round picks in the 2022 draft and Simmons is young enough to be a quality core piece of the future. He will still be very tradeable in the final year of his contact at 28 years old.

Rebuild instead of moving any of Rui, Deni, Kispert.

One of the blue chip prospects in the draft will be there at 6-10 range. Having a couple late 1sts gives us trade up possibilities if we finish in the 10-12 range. You could potentially add someone like Ivey, Brown, Murray, Sharpe, or Griffin to a core of Simmons, Rui, Avdija, Kispert, Bryant/Gafford.

[nate33]

Simmons value will only rise if he’s committed to working on the shortcomings in his game and not being a diva. I hope he does those things because he’s certainly a very good player.

No. His value will rise even if looks no better than he did the last 3 seasons. The last 3 seasons, he was an All-Star, and his trade value at the moment seems to be less than that of an All-Star player.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Thinking about this team, I think Marcus Smart would be a good player to target in a trade. Not sure what it would take.

[nate33]

I’ve come around to the Beal for Simmons+Philly 2022 1st and filler.

You’ve gotta move Harrell for a late 1st also, and let Bryant play as a stretch 5 next to Simmons.

That would give you 3 total 1st round picks in the 2022 draft and Simmons is young enough to be a quality core piece of the future. He will still be very tradeable in the final year of his contact at 28 years old.

Rebuild instead of moving any of Rui, Deni, Kispert.

I agree that we should move Harrell too. I don't think we'd get a 1st though. We will be lucky to land a high 2nd. Rebuilding teams don't want an aging vet like Harrell, and contending teams will worry about Harrell's bad history in the playoffs. And he's an unrestricted free agent in the offseason.

[gambitx777]

Simmons value will only rise if he’s committed to working on the shortcomings in his game and not being a diva. I hope he does those things because he’s certainly a very good player.

No. His value will rise even if looks no better than he did the last 3 seasons. The last 3 seasons, he was an All-Star, and his trade value at the moment seems to be less than that of an All-Star player.

But if he doesn't do those things, his value will never come back up to what it was. He's done a lot of damage to himself.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[nate33]

Thinking about this team, I think Marcus Smart would be a good player to target in a trade. Not sure what it would take.

I don't think Smart is a very good player. He's a guard who can't create his shot nor catch-and-shoot with good efficiency. I think he's a bit overrated as a defender too. He isn't really THAT good as an on-ball defender. His greatest strength is that he is so strong, he can comfortably switch 1 through 4 and even hold his own against 5's on the block.

Come to think of it, Smart isn't really all that unlike Deni Avdija. Except that Smart is already in the decline of his prime whereas Deni presumably will get considerably better going forward.

[TGW]

Simmons and Harris for Beal, Dimwit and Bertans works.

Simmons Holiday Neto
KCP Krispy
Harris Deni
Kuz Rui
Gafford Trez Bryant

That's awful.

[Silvie Lysandra]

Beal for Simmons would be straight up highway robbery for us unless Simmons decides he doesn't want to play for us, and I hate Simmons. The fact that Ted and Tommy have already ruled this out is straight up malfeasance

[Silvie Lysandra]

Simmons and Harris for Beal, Dimwit and Bertans works.

Simmons Holiday Neto
KCP Krispy
Harris Deni
Kuz Rui
Gafford Trez Bryant

That's awful.

If i'm trading for Simmons I'm trading for him to be a point forward, not a point guard.

[payitforward]

Simmons, for example, looks like he might be traded for less than he's worth. Sabonis sure won't be!

Agreed. And hopefully Beal is still valued in the trade market at a level higher than his actual on-court impact. If we can trade an overvalued guy for an undervalued guy, we should do it. The fact that Simmons is 3 years younger is just gravy.

The key here is that it is rare to acquire a guy at below market value....

Bingo!

[payitforward]

Simmons value will only rise if he’s committed to working on the shortcomings in his game and not being a diva. I hope he does those things because he’s certainly a very good player.

No. His value will rise even if looks no better than he did the last 3 seasons. The last 3 seasons, he was an All-Star, and his trade value at the moment seems to be less than that of an All-Star player.

For sure. & Simmons has been one of the very best players in the NBA since the first day he stepped on the court for Philly.

That said, the "diva" question can't be dismissed entirely. Every GM in the league will be aware of the risk that he'll wind up in Daryl Morey's shoes.

What would make the trade work so great for us is that it also removes a risk -- of giving a supermax to a guy who's play simply doesn't warrant it.

IOW, we're a good match.