Are Suns going to pay Ayton AND Cam Johnson?

[The-Power]

Yes, Ayton improved a lot with CP3 but no way he can be replaced with either Mcgee or Biyombo. I understand most people don't watch the games and only look at box scores, but if you follow this team you would know that Ayton is a much better player for many reasons.

But is he 20+M/Year better? Also, the Suns are currently 5.5 points per 100 possessions better without Ayton compared to with him – and last year during the RS, there was virtually no difference in team performance with him off the court compared to on the court. Now, it's fair to argue that Ayton's added value might just show really in the playoffs. But for that reason I'd expect that he does need a really good playoff run this year for the Suns to consider him a key piece of their future because it sure doesn't look like they need him during the RS.

[basketballRob]

I think he signs with Detroit for the max.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[shangrila]

The Ayton contract stuff is well established but Cam Johnson is up for an extension this off-season. He’s their best shooter and player off the bench (can also fill in starting) and is 3rd in VORP (whatever that means) behind Paul/Booker. Their title hopes would take a huge hit without him in my opinion. Granted he’s an older player (turns 26 in March) for a guy on a rookie deal but should get a hefty deal the way he’s improved. Can and will they pay both players this summer? They just paid Bridges as well…

Props for honesty.

To answer the question I think they do, though whether they sign them first or match an offer I don’t know.

I also expect them to sniff around Towns depending on how our season goes, so there’s that.

[bwgood77]

Ayton's gone. They put in Biyombo and still are winning. Cam I think depends on the deal, but they have to think about trading Crowder now if they want to keep Cam.

Ayton is great, but how much is it Point gods effect? I mean look at Biymbo as you said, Paul is making anyone who can set a pick and catch a ball look like NBA starter. Yeah, they are not maxing Ayton, I dont see it.

This could be an argument for why they do max Ayton. The Point God turns 37 this spring, and while his recent health has been encouraging, any player in their late 30s can be an injury away from their star days being over. Ayton was a promising young center before Chris Paul showed up (Paul hasn't really boosted him statistically) and is only 23. Ayton represents their best chance at a star running mate next to Booker, once they need more than a rim runner. Maybe he negotiates for less than the max, or tries to escape with through RFA and gets the smaller max matched. He'll try to get Bam Adebayo money, and the Suns will try to give him Clint Capela money is my guess.

Ayton's growth has come defensively, and has been linear development since he entered the league.

Yeah, when I keep reading Paul is what makes him good, I'm thinking "On defense?" because that is surprisingly (after his draft profile) his most important quality for the playoffs. He can switch onto anyone. He is one of the only guys (Mobley being the other one) who contests a lot of 2s and 3s. He plays D well (or as good as anyone does) on AD, Jokic, etc.

He has become a bit more efficient on offense with CP3 but a lot of that is just cutting out the midrange shots. He scored more with Rubio.

Anyway, I don't know what the Suns will do. I can see boneheaded cheap Sarver saying "Hey, we are winning with McGee and Biyombo, Ayton can go" while the team is beating depleted teams with those guys. I think Utah and Indy didn't have any starters and the games were not blowouts. They were on fire from 3 last night and still barely beat the TWolves. They pull out a lot of close games against some good teams and ok teams but in the playoffs I don't think Biyombo or McGee is who you want starting. Or you probably couldn't have signed Biyombo for the minimum as a FA halfway through the season or McGee for $5 million. They are nice backups...better than Kaminsky but don't have shooting range and can't guard on the perimeter.

[brutalitops]

For those of you who think they won't re-sign Ayton where do you think he'll go? A sign and trade? My take is that they'll figure out a contract and he'll stay.

Apart from Charlotte or San Antonio, not a lot of spots for a true C with cap space for the contract hes looking for

[Mr Puddles]

Suns can offer more money than anyone and match any offer for Ayton, he isn't going anywhere.

As much as I've loved Mcgee and Bismack's contributions, Ayton's ability to defend small ball line-up while punishing them on the offensive end is really being underrated. It's the reason the Clippers had to adjust their line-up back to a "big" line-up after punishing the Jazz with small ball in the second round.

Unlike McGee and Bismack, Ayton is really good at pinning guys down in the post, getting an entry pass and then hitting a shot over them. He has a soft touch from anywhere around the painted area.

Also wondering how "product of Chris Paul" DeAndre Ayton was able to average 22ppg, 12 rebounds on 76% shooting in the first two game of the western conference finals, despite Chris Paul not playing in those games.

[step]

For what it's worth, I think his stats are being bolstered significantly by the CP3 effect. If he doesn't have a PG who can feed him and play the screen and role game as well, he will drop off. Count on it.

His efficiency has improved, but he was posting higher numbers before Paul arrived.

[thamadkant]

For those of you who think they won't re-sign Ayton where do you think he'll go? A sign and trade? My take is that they'll figure out a contract and he'll stay.

He'll become a RFA and if any team offers him, the Suns can match. The key thing is that no other teams can offer Ayton anything close to what the Suns can in terms of length or amount. So, this could end up being a shrewd move on their part to save money. Then again, while I don't expect it'll happen, they could S/T him elsewhere but the options for getting a decent return would be pretty limited.

For what it's worth, I think his stats are being bolstered significantly by the CP3 effect. If he doesn't have a PG who can feed him and play the screen and role game as well, he will drop off. Count on it.

Ayton averaged more points and shots as a rookie....without CP3.
So him dropping off as he gets better and more mature sounds ridiculous.


In fact this thread is full of uneducated takes from people who dont watch the Suns nor Ayton. Just bad takes everywhere, good thing you guys dont matter lol.

[thamadkant]

Ayton is great, but how much is it Point gods effect? I mean look at Biymbo as you said, Paul is making anyone who can set a pick and catch a ball look like NBA starter. Yeah, they are not maxing Ayton, I dont see it.

This could be an argument for why they do max Ayton. The Point God turns 37 this spring, and while his recent health has been encouraging, any player in their late 30s can be an injury away from their star days being over. Ayton was a promising young center before Chris Paul showed up (Paul hasn't really boosted him statistically) and is only 23. Ayton represents their best chance at a star running mate next to Booker, once they need more than a rim runner. Maybe he negotiates for less than the max, or tries to escape with through RFA and gets the smaller max matched. He'll try to get Bam Adebayo money, and the Suns will try to give him Clint Capela money is my guess.

Ayton's growth has come defensively, and has been linear development since he entered the league.

Yeah, when I keep reading Paul is what makes him good, I'm thinking "On defense?" because that is surprisingly (after his draft profile) his most important quality for the playoffs. He can switch onto anyone. He is one of the only guys (Mobley being the other one) who contests a lot of 2s and 3s. He plays D well (or as good as anyone does) on AD, Jokic, etc, as anyone.

He has become a bit more efficient on offense with CP3 but a lot of that is just cutting out the midrange shots. He scored more with Rubio.

Anyway, I don't know what the Suns will do. I can see boneheaded cheap Sarver saying "Hey, we are winning with McGee and Biyombo, Ayton can go" while the team is beating depleted teams with those guys. I think Utah and Indy didn't have any starters and the games were not blowouts. They were on fire from 3 last night and still barely beat the TWolves. They pull out a lot of close games against some good teams and ok teams but in the playoffs I don't think Biyombo or McGee is who you want starting. Or you probably couldn't have signed Biyombo for the minimum as a FA halfway through the season or McGee for $5 million. They are nice backups...better than Kaminsky but don't have shooting range and can't guard on the perimeter.

You're debating facts with people who dont know how to interpret them nor have any knowledge of the argument they are pushing. You should just ban them (just kidding) for the bad takes... almost lies, and certainly misinformation all around.

[Lalouie]

The Suns already offered him a 4 year max extension last year, he wanted the five year contract. He can only sign a 4 year max with any team this summer, including the Suns. It was only done because this would allow the Suns to bring in another max player once CP3 hangs it up. Even if he signs the contract somewhere else, Suns will match it because they were willing to give them the money last summer. The idea that Phoenix decided to not pay him is false.

???

i'm not understanding you here, bro.

ayton wanted 5yrs like those drafted with him. he wanted to get what they got. phx said no, only 3 or 4 years. so phx decided not to pay him i don't see ayton with a new contract,,,do you?

[SkyBill40]

For those of you who think they won't re-sign Ayton where do you think he'll go? A sign and trade? My take is that they'll figure out a contract and he'll stay.

He'll become a RFA and if any team offers him, the Suns can match. The key thing is that no other teams can offer Ayton anything close to what the Suns can in terms of length or amount. So, this could end up being a shrewd move on their part to save money. Then again, while I don't expect it'll happen, they could S/T him elsewhere but the options for getting a decent return would be pretty limited.

For what it's worth, I think his stats are being bolstered significantly by the CP3 effect. If he doesn't have a PG who can feed him and play the screen and role game as well, he will drop off. Count on it.

Ayton averaged more points and shots as a rookie....without CP3.
So him dropping off as he gets better and more mature sounds ridiculous.


In fact this thread is full of uneducated takes from people who dont watch the Suns nor Ayton. Just bad takes everywhere, good thing you guys dont matter lol.

LMAO. Sure, dude. You're free to think whatever you wish. Anecdote being what it is, it's a strong likelihood I've been watching the Suns longer than you've been alive. Just a guess but a possibility. Don't get it twisted because I have a Sonics logo as my NBA team rather than a Suns one. Go right on ahead and pass your differing opinion as a matter of factual truth when it's nothing more than what it is. Good luck with that. That's called an appeal to authority and, well, you aren't one any more than anyone else here.

I didn't ask for nor do I expect you or anyone else to like my opinion, but you can respect it and leave it at that. I give you that courtesy regardless.

To the point, there's absolutely no telling as to how Ayton will perform without him actually playing the games. Is there an expectation he'll continue to grow as a player and individual? Sure. Is it guarantee? No. Paul DOES have an effect on him and it's pretty undeniable regardless of what the stats might indicate. Stats are just numbers and they don't account for everything.

[Ballerhogger]

Paying cam is going be tough

[Hsker4Life]

From a Suns fan who doesn’t want to max DA:

The Suns miss him. Yes, we’ve been winning, but the team is much better with him. There is no “replacing” him with McGee and Biyombo. They do not compare.

[SkyBill40]

From a Suns fan who doesn’t want to max DA:

The Suns miss him. Yes, we’ve been winning, but the team is much better with him. There is no “replacing” him with McGee and Biyombo. They do not compare.

McGee isn't a starter although he has been for other teams and does fine when pressed into that role. He makes for a fine backup for us and can produce in short order, but he's only here on a one year deal anyway. Whether he comes back will remain to be seen. If he does, I'm suspecting it to be more than the $5M he's getting now and for at least two years in length.

[YourCellarDoor]

jesus, i wasn't aware that non-suns fans takes on ayton were this embarrassingly bad. nobody with eyes and a brain should be able to say that there isn't a noticeable drop-off from ayton to mcgee and obviously to bismack. yes they could maybe give 80% of his production, but you pay a premium on players who can give you that extra 20% if you're competing for a championship. we replace him with mcgee and use that money to do what?

cam will be hard to retain unfortunately. he should be the starter over jae within a year or two at the longest, but i think we just have to go too far into the tax to bring him back. one thing of note is that he switched agents 5 months ago to a group that includes... devin booker's dad.

[Phystic]

To the point, there's absolutely no telling as to how Ayton will perform without him actually playing the games. Is there an expectation he'll continue to grow as a player and individual? Sure. Is it guarantee? No. Paul DOES have an effect on him and it's pretty undeniable regardless of what the stats might indicate. Stats are just numbers and they don't account for everything.

Of course cp3 has an effect he's one of the best PG of all time. However he is not the driving reason Ayton is the player he is. That's why multiple people have pointed out that his stats have been consistent throughout his career.

His BBIQ has improved and effort, sure those could be attributed to Paul but those are likely fixtures now with or without Paul.

You could just as easily argue that Aytons stats are being hamper by paul's ball dominance in that Ayton isn't given a consistent roll during games

[shangrila]

Suns can offer more money than anyone and match any offer for Ayton, he isn't going anywhere.

As much as I've loved Mcgee and Bismack's contributions, Ayton's ability to defend small ball line-up while punishing them on the offensive end is really being underrated. It's the reason the Clippers had to adjust their line-up back to a "big" line-up after punishing the Jazz with small ball in the second round.

Unlike McGee and Bismack, Ayton is really good at pinning guys down in the post, getting an entry pass and then hitting a shot over them. He has a soft touch from anywhere around the painted area.

Also wondering how "product of Chris Paul" DeAndre Ayton was able to average 22ppg, 12 rebounds on 76% shooting in the first two game of the western conference finals, despite Chris Paul not playing in those games.

22ppg and 12rpg in two whole games? Wow.

[turnaroundJ]

It’s going to be the easiest match ever for the Suns. I think they played it right. Just because the Suns CAN offer Ayton 5 years, doesn’t mean he SHOULD get it automatically. Every player feels entitled to the most they could get, a lot deserve it, but obviously it’s better for the FO to not get crippled.

But obviously if he becomes a true star and bolts after the contract because of feeling slighted now, that risk is on the FO too.

[Madhouse]

Cam Johnson is a very good role player. I guess he wants as much as Bridges. 90/4.

Ayton wants the max. That would be some serious commitment by the Suns to make it happen. I probably would do it to bring a title (or even 2) to the Suns.

[SkyBill40]

Of course cp3 has an effect he's one of the best PG of all time. However he is not the driving reason Ayton is the player he is. That's why multiple people have pointed out that his stats have been consistent throughout his career.

His BBIQ has improved and effort, sure those could be attributed to Paul but those are likely fixtures now with or without Paul.

You could just as easily argue that Aytons stats are being hamper by paul's ball dominance in that Ayton isn't given a consistent roll during games

I wasn't insinuating by any means that Paul is the reason Ayton is the player he is. He's a FACTOR, and a highly effective one at that, but just a factor.

Your point of Paul having a somewhat negative effect on Ayton's production is a fair one. I don't know if I'd say he's hampering Ayton's productivity that greatly, but Paul is a ball dominant guard without question. I could pick and choose other points about Ayton that I find somewhat inconsistent or lacking, but there's little point in doing so. The FO has chosen at this point to hold off on rewarding him with a contract extension and they see him on the daily and with a far more scrutinous eye than we as casual observers who only view him on game days.