Are Suns going to pay Ayton AND Cam Johnson?

[garrick]

Ayton's gone. They put in Biyombo and still are winning. Cam I think depends on the deal, but they have to think about trading Crowder now if they want to keep Cam.

Ayton is great, but how much is it Point gods effect? I mean look at Biymbo as you said, Paul is making anyone who can set a pick and catch a ball look like NBA starter. Yeah, they are not maxing Ayton, I dont see it.

Ayton averaged 16 and 18 ppg before Chris Paul came to the Suns so it's not just Chris Paul feeding him for easy buckets.

Actually if you watch him play the reason Ayton doesn't score more is he doesn't always make hard cuts to the basket like McGee and he takes harder shots like post ups and mid range shots.

McGee and Biyombo can fill in for stretches but there's a reason Bismack never scored in double digits and McGee only averaging like 15 ins a game.

Neither can keep up the same level of production over a 82 game season the way Ayton can.

Cam is also looking more like a reliable offensive player as of late as he has shown that he is not strictly a 3pt shooter but can drive and finish with purpose unlike Bridges that looks lost when not shooting open threes so the Suns most likely will sign him to a slightly lesser deal than Bridges.

[MrBigShot]

Ayton's numbers aren't gaudy because he only takes like 11 shots a game, but he is incredibly efficient and plays a huge role for the Suns. They will match any offer he gets in RFA, as they should. Cam Johnson is a nice player too but far more replaceable.

[Mr Puddles]

Suns can offer more money than anyone and match any offer for Ayton, he isn't going anywhere.

As much as I've loved Mcgee and Bismack's contributions, Ayton's ability to defend small ball line-up while punishing them on the offensive end is really being underrated. It's the reason the Clippers had to adjust their line-up back to a "big" line-up after punishing the Jazz with small ball in the second round.

Unlike McGee and Bismack, Ayton is really good at pinning guys down in the post, getting an entry pass and then hitting a shot over them. He has a soft touch from anywhere around the painted area.

Also wondering how "product of Chris Paul" DeAndre Ayton was able to average 22ppg, 12 rebounds on 76% shooting in the first two game of the western conference finals, despite Chris Paul not playing in those games.

22ppg and 12rpg in two whole games? Wow.

The point was that without CP3 his production didn't magically disappear. If he's only putting up numbers because Chris Paul is feeding him, then how come he's still putting up big numbers when CP3 is out?

Paul has only missed 2 games since joining the Suns, although he did miss significant time (and was severely limited) in games 2 & 3 of the Lakers- Suns as well. Throwing that into the mix, Ayton averaged 22 ppg and 10.5 rebounds on 78.5% shooting in those games. Also, we're talking about the playoffs here - if there's one stage where spoonfed players would be most likely to get exposed without their primary facilitator, the postseason is it.

Feel free to post any actual stats refuting that DeAndre Ayton can't produce with CP3 on this floor though - because for all of that narrative being thrown that Ayton is just a mere product of CP3, precious few posters here have actually attempted to support those claims with stats.

[alevirfe]

what's stopping the Suns from matching Ayton's extension as a RFA? they saved themselves a lot of money going about it this way, but alienated the player for sure. after a deep run or even a championship, I think maybe it can be water under the bridge

[Sothron]

For those of you who think they won't re-sign Ayton where do you think he'll go? A sign and trade? My take is that they'll figure out a contract and he'll stay.

Personally I'm hoping he signs the one year tender and walks as a free agent after next season. Phoenix would get nothing from him walking out the door.

[Mr Puddles]

For those of you who think they won't re-sign Ayton where do you think he'll go? A sign and trade? My take is that they'll figure out a contract and he'll stay.

Personally I'm hoping he signs the one year tender and walks as a free agent after next season. Phoenix would get nothing from him walking out the door.

I'm not one to crush another man's hopes, God knows that as a Hawks fan you have very few of them actually coming to fruition as it is, but there's a better chance of Ayton winning bronze at the women's Winter Olympic figure skating competition this month then there is of him opting into his one year tender.

[Madhouse]

For those of you who think they won't re-sign Ayton where do you think he'll go? A sign and trade? My take is that they'll figure out a contract and he'll stay.

Personally I'm hoping he signs the one year tender and walks as a free agent after next season. Phoenix would get nothing from him walking out the door.

I'm not one to crush another man's hopes, God knows that as a Hawks fan you have very few of them actually coming to fruition as it is, but there's a better chance of Ayton winning bronze at the women's Winter Olympic figure skating competition this month then there is of him opting into his one year tender.

that's a pretty good response.

[jlokine]

The Ayton contract stuff is well established but Cam Johnson is up for an extension this off-season. He’s their best shooter and player off the bench (can also fill in starting) and is 3rd in VORP (whatever that means) behind Paul/Booker. Their title hopes would take a huge hit without him in my opinion. Granted he’s an older player (turns 26 in March) for a guy on a rookie deal but should get a hefty deal the way he’s improved. Can and will they pay both players this summer? They just paid Bridges as well…

their title hopes takes a huge hit with an aging chris paul before losing this guy.. without chris paul, they go back to being the run of the mill phoenix suns.

[shangrila]

Suns can offer more money than anyone and match any offer for Ayton, he isn't going anywhere.

As much as I've loved Mcgee and Bismack's contributions, Ayton's ability to defend small ball line-up while punishing them on the offensive end is really being underrated. It's the reason the Clippers had to adjust their line-up back to a "big" line-up after punishing the Jazz with small ball in the second round.

Unlike McGee and Bismack, Ayton is really good at pinning guys down in the post, getting an entry pass and then hitting a shot over them. He has a soft touch from anywhere around the painted area.

Also wondering how "product of Chris Paul" DeAndre Ayton was able to average 22ppg, 12 rebounds on 76% shooting in the first two game of the western conference finals, despite Chris Paul not playing in those games.

22ppg and 12rpg in two whole games? Wow.

The point was that without CP3 his production didn't magically disappear. If he's only putting up numbers because Chris Paul is feeding him, then how come he's still putting up big numbers when CP3 is out?

Paul has only missed 2 games since joining the Suns, although he did miss significant time (and was severely limited) in games 2 & 3 of the Lakers- Suns as well. Throwing that into the mix, Ayton averaged 22 ppg and 10.5 rebounds on 78.5% shooting in those games. Also, we're talking about the playoffs here - if there's one stage where spoonfed players would be most likely to get exposed without their primary facilitator, the postseason is it.

Feel free to post any actual stats refuting that DeAndre Ayton can't produce with CP3 on this floor though - because for all of that narrative being thrown that Ayton is just a mere product of CP3, precious few posters here have actually attempted to support those claims with stats.

Uh, yeah, I don't care either way about this debate. I just find it funny that anyone would try to use a 2 game sample size as proof of anything.

[Mr Puddles]

22ppg and 12rpg in two whole games? Wow.

The point was that without CP3 his production didn't magically disappear. If he's only putting up numbers because Chris Paul is feeding him, then how come he's still putting up big numbers when CP3 is out?

Paul has only missed 2 games since joining the Suns, although he did miss significant time (and was severely limited) in games 2 & 3 of the Lakers- Suns as well. Throwing that into the mix, Ayton averaged 22 ppg and 10.5 rebounds on 78.5% shooting in those games. Also, we're talking about the playoffs here - if there's one stage where spoonfed players would be most likely to get exposed without their primary facilitator, the postseason is it.

Feel free to post any actual stats refuting that DeAndre Ayton can't produce with CP3 on this floor though - because for all of that narrative being thrown that Ayton is just a mere product of CP3, precious few posters here have actually attempted to support those claims with stats.

Uh, yeah, I don't care either way about this debate. I just find it funny that anyone would try to use a 2 game sample size as proof of anything.

Yeah, that's not what I was doing. I was posing a question asking how people explain that Ayton has performed well with AND without Paul - and that I'd love to see those claiming that he's merely a product of Paul actually back their claims up with any evidence rather than just making blanket statements.

[donemilio21]

Ayton is very good player, but not worth max contract. If someone wants to give him $35M a year, I think Suns would say "best of luck"
anything in the 20-25M range, they'd match since he is an RFA. His agent would really need to work out an S&T given the cap situations of teams who'd want Ayton.

[SunsLyf3]

Neither of these guys really contribute much to them winning. Ayton can be replaced with a much cheaper Mcgee, and Cam is a role player that you really shouldnt pay much for - there's a ton of 3PT guys available every off season for relatively cheap.

Tell me you don't watch Suns games without telling me you don't watch Suns games.

[SunsLyf3]

They both will get paid. They'll likely do to Cam what they did to DA so they avoid putting money in the books before it's needed(limits cap flexibility). It can sour a relationship but as long as they get paid it will be water under the bridge.

[spanishninja]

virtually everybody on this thread (including some Suns fans -- shame!) are missing the point that Ayton's premium value is as an elite defender, something you cannot come close to substituting with McGee and Biyombo. That's what you pay the extra money for. If Gobert can get $40mil/year despite his limited defensive versatility, Ayton should easily get $35/year.

[Sothron]

For those of you who think they won't re-sign Ayton where do you think he'll go? A sign and trade? My take is that they'll figure out a contract and he'll stay.

Personally I'm hoping he signs the one year tender and walks as a free agent after next season. Phoenix would get nothing from him walking out the door.

I'm not one to crush another man's hopes, God knows that as a Hawks fan you have very few of them actually coming to fruition as it is, but there's a better chance of Ayton winning bronze at the women's Winter Olympic figure skating competition this month then there is of him opting into his one year tender.

So insulting me as a Hawks fan aside, it would be karma for your terrible owner to have a player do exactly what I posted. He is once again taking the cheap route with the Suns and is screwing Ayton over in the process. Ayton owes the Suns nothing as a result. Nothing. He should take the one year tender and leave as a free agent. If for no other reason to punish Sarver and to show him and the rest of the owners that if you play cheap with top talent it bites you in the ass.

It isn't because I dislike Phoenix that I hope this happens. It is because I hate what Sarver has done to that franchise. He deserves some kind of basketball karma for how he's treated the franchise and its fans.

[mademan]

Gonna be interesting what they do with Ayton, cause he's gonna want 5 years, and if he was on any other team, he'd get those 5 years.

[Doranku]

How are Suns fans feeling about the decision to pay Bridges instead of Ayton this past summer? I feel like Bridges was given that contract with an expectation he would take the next step forward, but it looks like his numbers have regressed across the board this year despite playing 2 more MPG. Does the eye test tell a different story?

[SunsLyf3]

How are Suns fans feeling about the decision to pay Bridges instead of Ayton this past summer? I feel like Bridges was given that contract with an expectation he would take the next step forward, but it looks like his numbers have regressed across the board this year despite playing 2 more MPG. Does the eye test tell a different story?

Great. His per game averages have regressed a bit but he's still efficient. His 90 million extension is fair value considering he's tasked to guard the other teams best player night in and nigh out. If he takes another step on offense he will end up outplaying that contract.

[Qwigglez]

How are Suns fans feeling about the decision to pay Bridges instead of Ayton this past summer? I feel like Bridges was given that contract with an expectation he would take the next step forward, but it looks like his numbers have regressed across the board this year despite playing 2 more MPG. Does the eye test tell a different story?

He's been great. Definition of an iron man. Durability is overlooked by fans, but I think James Jones recognized how important it is to get players that well... play.
Ayton will get paid too. If the Suns win a championship this year, I think a 5 year max will happen. If the Suns fall short, then I think the Suns match any 4 year max another team offers Ayton.
Cam Johnson will likely get offered a contract in the $16 million a year range, maybe upwards of $20 million a year.

[bwgood77]

Ayton is very good player, but not worth max contract. If someone wants to give him $35M a year, I think Suns would say "best of luck"
anything in the 20-25M range, they'd match since he is an RFA. His agent would really need to work out an S&T given the cap situations of teams who'd want Ayton.

He may not be worth the max but most players who get it are not. Not that that is a good reason to pay someone the max, but letting a guy walk or taking back a crappy S&T doesn't make sense for a team that's a contender. You may be able to replace some of what he does (rebounding, finishing, rim D) on defense for cheaper, but if he's the difference between your team being solid or being a contender, it's worth the money for your team even if he's not worth it individually.

It's not like not paying him or paying arbitrarily having a cutoff $10 million lower than the max is going to create extra cap space to sign someone. They are well over the cap anyway. They may be in the tax a year or two but if you are a contender it's worth it.

Even if they don't think they are a contender or he isn't great, he's 23 with still a lot of upside left and most of the Suns are at an age younger than what should be their primes.