Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0

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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#501 » by Resistance » Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:18 pm

eminence wrote:
Resistance wrote:
eminence wrote:So what's the value on Randle? Is he in borderline dump territory or no? How much balancing does the below need? Tried to get Fournier in to get NY out of more money, but tricky to find the space in Utah.

Utah In: Randle/Burks
Utah Out: Ingles/Clarkson

NY In: Ingles/THT/min
NY Out: Randle/Burks

LAL In: Clarkson
LAL Out: THT/min



Randle?

I don't have him as a good fit with Rudy G.

At the moment, it appears the opinions are mixed. I have him as a salary dump.

Randle


MPG....3 Pt %....Assists....Turnovers....Block
35.3....30.6%......5.0.........3.5..........0.6..


Randle

2021-22....$21,780,000
2022-23....$26,136,000
2023-24....$28,226,880
2024-25....$30,317,760
2025-25....$32,408,640 - PO

Not good at all.


Oh, BTW......

15% Trade Bonus


100% it'd be spendy, but Jazz don't have a bunch of assets right now. Considered a similar deal with the Kings and Barnes.


I have them more in need of some younger legs for defense than Randle and his offense.


Rudy Gay...........35
Conley..............34
Ingles...............34
Bogdanovic........32
Whiteside..........32
Clarkson............29
Gobert..............29
Royce O'Neale.....28


Donovan Mitchell..25
Paschall.............25
Hughes..............23
Azubuike............22
Jared Butler........21

Offense

1. Utah

2. Atlanta
3. Charlotte
4. Miami
5. Phoenix
6. Brooklyn
7. Chicago
8. Memphis
9. Milwaukee
10. Philadelphia

Defense

1. Golden State
2. Phoenix
3. Cleveland
4. Boston
5. Dallas
6. Clippers
7. Miami
8. Milwaukee
9. Memphis
10. Philadelphia
11. Minnesota
12. Utah



******************************

I am a doubter for Ainge being a good fit as their lead FO Exec for where they are in the Rebuild - Compete cycle.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#502 » by babyjax13 » Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:27 pm

Resistance wrote:
eminence wrote:
Resistance wrote:

Randle?

I don't have him as a good fit with Rudy G.

At the moment, it appears the opinions are mixed. I have him as a salary dump.

Randle


MPG....3 Pt %....Assists....Turnovers....Block
35.3....30.6%......5.0.........3.5..........0.6..


Randle

2021-22....$21,780,000
2022-23....$26,136,000
2023-24....$28,226,880
2024-25....$30,317,760
2025-25....$32,408,640 - PO

Not good at all.


Oh, BTW......

15% Trade Bonus


100% it'd be spendy, but Jazz don't have a bunch of assets right now. Considered a similar deal with the Kings and Barnes.


I have them more in need of some younger legs for defense than Randle and his offense.


Rudy Gay...........35
Conley..............34
Ingles...............34
Bogdanovic........32
Whiteside..........32
Clarkson............29
Gobert..............29
Royce O'Neale.....28


Donovan Mitchell..25
Paschall.............25
Hughes..............23
Azubuike............22
Jared Butler........21

Offense

1. Utah

2. Atlanta
3. Charlotte
4. Miami
5. Phoenix
6. Brooklyn
7. Chicago
8. Memphis
9. Milwaukee
10. Philadelphia

Defense

1. Golden State
2. Phoenix
3. Cleveland
4. Boston
5. Dallas
6. Clippers
7. Miami
8. Milwaukee
9. Memphis
10. Philadelphia
11. Minnesota
12. Utah



******************************

I am a doubter for Ainge being a good fit as their lead FO Exec for where they are in the Rebuild - Compete cycle.


Snyder would blow a gasket if we had Randle.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#503 » by Lovetron Joe » Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:36 pm

JRoy wrote:
Lovetron Joe wrote:
JRoy wrote:
Not sure what his regimen looks like.

But he is going to want to shut up a lot of people with his play.


He went to Wimbledon and has been dating Maya Jama. Prior to that he dated Talia Richman and prior to that Kendall Jenner.

Not sure what his regimen looks like, but I am ready to give it a shot.


I don’t know who any of those people are.


https://playersbio.com/ben-simmonss-girlfriend/
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#504 » by eminence » Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:44 pm

Resistance wrote:
eminence wrote:
Resistance wrote:

Randle?

I don't have him as a good fit with Rudy G.

At the moment, it appears the opinions are mixed. I have him as a salary dump.

Randle


MPG....3 Pt %....Assists....Turnovers....Block
35.3....30.6%......5.0.........3.5..........0.6..


Randle

2021-22....$21,780,000
2022-23....$26,136,000
2023-24....$28,226,880
2024-25....$30,317,760
2025-25....$32,408,640 - PO

Not good at all.


Oh, BTW......

15% Trade Bonus


100% it'd be spendy, but Jazz don't have a bunch of assets right now. Considered a similar deal with the Kings and Barnes.


I have them more in need of some younger legs for defense than Randle and his offense.


Rudy Gay...........35
Conley..............34
Ingles...............34
Bogdanovic........32
Whiteside..........32
Clarkson............29
Gobert..............29
Royce O'Neale.....28


Donovan Mitchell..25
Paschall.............25
Hughes..............23
Azubuike............22
Jared Butler........21

Offense

1. Utah

2. Atlanta
3. Charlotte
4. Miami
5. Phoenix
6. Brooklyn
7. Chicago
8. Memphis
9. Milwaukee
10. Philadelphia

Defense

1. Golden State
2. Phoenix
3. Cleveland
4. Boston
5. Dallas
6. Clippers
7. Miami
8. Milwaukee
9. Memphis
10. Philadelphia
11. Minnesota
12. Utah



******************************

I am a doubter for Ainge being a good fit as their lead FO Exec for where they are in the Rebuild - Compete cycle.


I agree with the concept of needing defense more (I think this is probably a very slight defensive upgrade too), but don't see any guys available in our price range that would get minutes. I would love Barnes or Grant in that same slot, but I imagine that'd cost a fair amount more.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#505 » by Resistance » Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:44 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=21


The opportunity is there, it is that none of San Antonio, New Orleans and Sacramento has shown that they want to step up.


Clippers.........25-26
Minnesota.......24-25

Lakers...........24-26 - Playin
Portland.........21-28 - Playin

San Antonio.....19-31
New Orleans....18-31
Sacramento.....18-33


I don't know if this will make the Lakers more likely or less likely to make a deadline trade involving draft pick(s).
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#506 » by K_chile22 » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:31 am

Trying to figure out how the Jazz can fill the hole this Ingles injury may make and man.. Cupboard is a bit bare
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#507 » by Domejandro » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:49 am

K_chile22 wrote:Trying to figure out how the Jazz can fill the hole this Ingles injury may make and man.. Cupboard is a bit bare

Kenrich Williams has to be at the top of Utah's realistic list, at this point.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#508 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:24 am

Domejandro wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:Trying to figure out how the Jazz can fill the hole this Ingles injury may make and man.. Cupboard is a bit bare

Kenrich Williams has to be at the top of Utah's realistic list, at this point.


And it would've made some sense to use Joe's contract to eat Favors' deal to get Williams, but Utah can't take back Favors this year since they traded him away in July. Don't know that OKC would sacrifice value they could get for Kenrich just to get off Favors' deal, though.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#509 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:24 am

K_chile22 wrote:Trying to figure out how the Jazz can fill the hole this Ingles injury may make and man.. Cupboard is a bit bare


I think the solution is just to give Eric Paschall minutes, he has been really good, and play Royce more at the 3. We will also just sign House to the rest of the season. Losing Joe sucks, and seeing him in pain sucks more, but realistically we have some pieces to soak up his minutes.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#510 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:28 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Domejandro wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:Trying to figure out how the Jazz can fill the hole this Ingles injury may make and man.. Cupboard is a bit bare

Kenrich Williams has to be at the top of Utah's realistic list, at this point.


And it would've made some sense to use Joe's contract to eat Favors' deal to get Williams, but Utah can't take back Favors this year since they traded him away in July. Don't know that OKC would sacrifice value they could get for Kenrich just to get off Favors' deal, though.


We traded a first to get off of Favors' salary, and while OKC is saying they won't move Kenrich for anything less than a first, I can't imagine we'd jump at taking on future salary like this.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#511 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:25 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Kenrich Williams has to be at the top of Utah's realistic list, at this point.


And it would've made some sense to use Joe's contract to eat Favors' deal to get Williams, but Utah can't take back Favors this year since they traded him away in July. Don't know that OKC would sacrifice value they could get for Kenrich just to get off Favors' deal, though.


We traded a first to get off of Favors' salary, and while OKC is saying they won't move Kenrich for anything less than a first, I can't imagine we'd jump at taking on future salary like this.


Of course. Was just trying to think of ways to be able to get a talent without having to give up a future 1st, as Utah is pretty close to tapped out on that. Taking future salary would be the only real way, and this year's salary would actually be pretty neutral to close to savings.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#512 » by eminence » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:33 pm

I'd certainly look to get somebody and Kenrich would be great, but probably looking on the budget rack. Guys that have a season or two on the cheap and can fit into the Favors TPE for like 2 2nds max.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#513 » by Asif16 » Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:55 pm

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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#514 » by Asif16 » Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:58 pm

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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#515 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:07 pm

Nice look at Harden’s options from Smitty

http://www.spotrac.com/research/NBA/the-salary-math-behind-the-james-harden-situation-1381/

Spoiler:
There is a lot of reporting around the NBA that James Harden isn’t a lock to stay with the Brooklyn Nets following this season. Harden didn’t sign a contract extension before the start of the season, so that’s left the door open to speculation about what his future holds.

To add to the natural questions that come with any possible free agent, Harden has a readymade suitor waiting to acquire him.

The Philadelphia 76ers and President of Basketball Operations Daryl Morey are known to want Harden. Philadelphia tried to land him last season, when Harden was traded from the Houston Rockets to the Nets. Morey and the Sixers don’t want to miss out a second time.

That gives Harden some flexibility with his next contract. It also gives him some flexibility in picking a destination. Well…to some extent. If Harden wants to get to Philadelphia, he’ll likely need Brooklyn and General Manager Sean Marks to play ball.

Let’s break down each of the possibilities for Harden, both before next week’s trade deadline and this summer.



THE STRAIGHT TRADE THIS SEASON
The 76ers would love to swap Ben Simmons for James Harden right now. That would allow Harden and Philadelphia to reach an agreement on a new contract in whatever form they wish. The options open to him with Philadelphia would be the same as they are with Brooklyn.

The challenge? The Nets are title contenders. So are the Sixers. Brooklyn isn’t going to help Philadelphia massively improve their immediate championship odds. The Nets would have to be enamored with Simmons, both for this season and beyond, to even consider it. And that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Basically: Forget about any sort of Harden trade happening in the next week or so.



OPTING OUT AND SIGNING ELSEWHERE
We’re going to knock this one out very quickly, because it’s highly unlikely.

First, only three teams project to have cap space this summer (Detroit, Orlando and San Antonio) and none look like they’ll have enough space to give Harden his first-year maximum of $46.5 million.

That leaves Harden with a sign-and-trade as the possibility to change teams as a free agent. Because his salary for this season is above the maximum salary, Harden is in a unique position of being eligible to sign with another team for the same first-year salary as can get from Brooklyn. However, if Harden changes teams, even via sign-and-trade, he’s only eligible for a four-year contract vs the five-year deal he can get from the Nets. He’s also limited to 5% raises if he changes teams vs 8% if he re-signs with Brooklyn.

Here's what opting out and changing teams would look like for Harden:

2022-23: $46,526,382
2023-24: $48,852,701
2024-25: $51,179,020
2025-26: $53,505,339
Total: Four years, $200,063,442
That’s leaving over $69 million on the table vs signing a five-year deal with the Nets. And it still involves Brooklyn helping Harden leave town. And the acquiring team would immediately become hard capped at approximately $151 million in team salary for the 2022-23 because they acquired Harden via sign-and-trade. That’s makes building out a contending roster extremely difficult.

Of all the options, this path is the most unlikely after a straight trade in the next week-and-a-half. This is because of the complexities involved with changing teams, as well as Harden leaving so much money on the table.



OPTING OUT AND RE-SIGNING WITH BROOKLYN
In most cases, a player can make the most money by opting out and signing a new contract. In general, the cap rises faster than salaries do, making signing a new deal the best path.

For a couple of reasons, James Harden is in a unique spot where this doesn’t apply to him.

First off, Harden has been on a max salary for a while now, including being grandfathered into Designated Veteran Player status several years ago. That means his current maximum salary is nearly $5 million above the regular maximum salary for a 10+ year veteran ($44.3 million to $39.3 million).

Next, because of the pandemic, the cap isn’t going up as rapidly as previously anticipated. Most projections have the cap rising by a minimal amount for at least another year ($112 million to $119 million). That’s kept max salaries down somewhat; to a point where Harden’s maximum salary for 2022-23 remains almost $5 million above the regular 10+ year maximum salary.

Finally, because Harden is already above the maximum salary, he’s entitled to 5% bump in salary from this season’s $44.3 million to $46.5 million for 2022-23.

If Harden opted out and re-signed with Brooklyn for the max, his new deal would look like this:

2022-23: $46,526,382
2023-24: $50,248,493
2024-25: $53,970,604
2025-26: $57,692,715
2026-27: $61,414,826
Total: Five years, $269,853,020
Yes…James Harden would get paid over $61 million in his age-37 season in 2026-27 in this scenario.

But…he won’t. Because opting out and re-signing isn’t the most lucrative path to maximize his earnings.



OPTING IN AND EXTENDING WITH BROOKLYN
Here’s where things get interesting and really, really expensive!

Remember how we said Harden is in a unique situation because of how high his salary currently is? That applies in an extension as well.

In this scenario, Harden would opt in for $47.4 million for 2022-23. He’d then sign a four-year extension with the Nets this offseason, giving him five total seasons under contract. Like the opt out and re-sign option, this results in a contract running through 2026-27, but Harden would start at a higher first-year salary, which would push his deal to even more total money.

Here’s what opting in for 2022-23 and signing a four-year extension would look like:

2022-23: $47,366,760
2023-24: $51,156,101
2024-25: $54,945,442
2025-26: $58,374,783
2026-27: $62,524,124
Total: Five years, $274,727,210
Yes…like before Harden would make over $60 million in his age-37 season in 2026-27.

This option starts to look like one of those massive Major League Baseball contracts where the aging star is getting paid long after he should be an everyday player. Albert Pujols anyone? Essentially, you are paying in the future for past performance.

This is the most lucrative path for Harden to maximize his earnings. That makes it the most likely path forward…unless Harden really wants to change teams to get away from Brooklyn.



OPTING IN, TRADED AND EXTENDING WITH NEW TEAM
If Harden really wants to leave the Nets, the exact same contract as opting in and extending with Brooklyn is open to him if he opts in for 2022-23 and is traded. There are a couple of caveats though.

Harden wouldn’t be eligible to sign an extension with a new team for six months after being traded. But because he’d be in the final season of his deal in this scenario, he can sign that four-year extension at any point. Extensions only have to be completed in the offseason is more than one season is remaining on the contract. Expiring deals can be extended at any time.

The second, and more important caveat, is that his option allows Harden to maximize his earnings, while also preventing the acquiring team from becoming hard capped for the 2022-23 season. Because it would a be a straight trade vs a sign-and-trade, the hard cap wouldn’t come into play. That would make building out a contending roster far more viable, if still extremely expensive.

If Harden wants out of Brooklyn, this is the best, and most likely path forward.



SUMMARY
There are basically five options for James Harden laid out above, in essentially ascending order of likelihood of happening. The sixth option is that Harden opts in for 2022-23, plays out the season on an expiring deal and becomes a free agent in 2023. But at his age, with a mounting injury history, that’s so unlikely it’s not even worth considering.

The best bet for Harden is to opt in for 2022-23 and either agree to an extension with Brooklyn or to force a trade and sign an extension six months later. That second option maintains the Nets as a title contender this season, without strengthening a rival. And it gives Marks and Morey time to figured out a trade package for this summer. If Brooklyn doesn’t want Ben Simmons, then Philadelphia can find a third team to route Simmons to, while getting value in the deal for the Nets.

Or, if the Nets play well and maybe win a title, Harden can opt in and re-sign and keep competing for championships alongside Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving in the immediate future. It’ll be one or the two, as the chance to make nearly $275 million over the next five years is simply too alluring to pass up.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#516 » by Troubadour » Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:13 pm

Asif16 wrote:
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Goran Dragic + two 2nds
for
Spencer Dinwiddie

Thoughts?
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#517 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:14 pm

Troubadour wrote:
Asif16 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Goran Dragic + two 2nds
for
Spencer Dinwiddie

Thoughts?


I like this. Dinwiddie has good size and is generally a stable vet. Raps are banking on him bouncing back a bit, but that's why the price is as it is here.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#518 » by K_chile22 » Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:16 pm

Troubadour wrote:
Asif16 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Goran Dragic + two 2nds
for
Spencer Dinwiddie

Thoughts?
Would Dragic play for the Wiz? I don't think the wizards are interested in getting worse this year to get off the Dinwiddie deal, they probably should, but usually their MO to just chase the playoffs no matter what
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#519 » by Troubadour » Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:19 pm

K_chile22 wrote:
Troubadour wrote:
Asif16 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Goran Dragic + two 2nds
for
Spencer Dinwiddie

Thoughts?
Would Dragic play for the Wiz? I don't think the wizards are interested in getting worse this year to get off the Dinwiddie deal, they probably should, but usually their MO to just chase the playoffs no matter what


Dinwiddie is shooting 31% from the field when he plays with Beal. Dragic surely could at least do that.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0 

Post#520 » by HornetJail » Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:20 pm

K_chile22 wrote:
Troubadour wrote:
Asif16 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Goran Dragic + two 2nds
for
Spencer Dinwiddie

Thoughts?
Would Dragic play for the Wiz? I don't think the wizards are interested in getting worse this year to get off the Dinwiddie deal, they probably should, but usually their MO to just chase the playoffs no matter what

If the Wiz have a taker for that Dinwiddie contract, they should make the trade, with or without the picks. Just let Beal run point and see what happens.
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