2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

yoyoboy · Post #1661 » by **yoyoboy** » Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:46 pm

It’s the outlier great defense that’s leading the Warriors to victory. Golden State doesn’t rank within the top 10 on offense. For that reason, I can’t be compelled to just disregard how poor Steph has played in terms of individual production the past couple months because of the team success. Steph has been solid on defense, but he’s not providing elite defensive value. It’s Kerr’s phenomenal system and a combination of high energy and high IQ defenders which have led to such an extraordinary defense. Unless you think Steph as a PG is anchoring GS’s defense, which I find ridiculous, then I don’t see how you can possibly think he’s been better than Jokic, Giannis, or Embiid. I have him after those three - maybe ahead of Giannis.

If you want to go with an argument that relies extremely heavily on Steph’s plus-minus numbers, being that he has a +13.4 on-court this year, a +15.5 on-off, and he ranks 2nd in the league in RAPM...well then Darius Garland has a +9.6 on-court this year, a +13.1 on-off, and he ranks 4th in league in RAPM. For a team that’s 1.5 games out of 1st in the conference despite having a ton of injuries and very young players being the team’s primary contributors. And like Steph’s the team’s success is mainly predicated on the defense. Yet I don’t see the same people championing Steph as the clear MVP (outside of Doc MJ) putting Garland high up in their MVP ladders. In fact, a lot of people don’t even have him as an All-Star this year.

Post #1662 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:19 pm

moderndarwin wrote:Why isn’t it Steph?

He keeps leading his team to victories even without their second most impactful player being around.

He looks awful out there but his impact on the floor is still palpable and he’s the blueprint for the team to execute against. Him being a bum, missing shots, and a few head scratching turnovers don’t mean anything’s changed. There is a reason they keep winning and it’s because he’s the Sun with planets orbiting. You could lose a planet or two but he’s irreplaceable. He’s just not in solar flare mode.

So, I am completely with you saying that this question you’ve asked should be something seriously considers by all. To me Curry remains a strong contender for the award, though I currently side with Jokic. What’s holding him back?

1) I can see that Curry isn’t playing as effectively out there as he was late last season through the section of this season. It’s real. I acknowledge it even as I emphasize how effective the Warriors are so long as they have the treat of Curry out in the floor. Him playing worse does matter to me though. It doesn’t preclude him from being my MVP, but it’s not something I can just ignore either if only because…

2) I think playoff opponents will adjust and reduce the value of the approach if there isn’t actually a guy out there actively making shots like a Splash Brother, and I do consider playoff scalability to my player evaluations. I think Curry in general scales far better to the playoffs that people allege…but if he’s in a long enough slump that an opponent can conclude in can gravitate less to him, that changes things.

3) It matters to me that the Warriors have stopped winning at the same pace they started the season on. When a team is winning easily, it’s easy to give benefit of the doubt. Once they have to fight harder and they don’t seem to be able to draw their big guns, we have to acknowledge that there the problem is real and having consequences.

Hard to be my MVP pick when I have that feeling lingering about you.

But of course, I’m not predicting this will continue. I’m kinda expect to see the Warriors catch fire again with Klay’s addition, and it’s easy for me to see potentially moving Curry back up top my list.

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Post #1663 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:22 pm

WarriorGM wrote:
MrBigShot wrote:
moderndarwin wrote:Why isn’t it Steph?

He keeps leading his team to victories even without their second most impactful player being around.

He looks awful out there but his impact on the floor is still palpable and he’s the blueprint for the team to execute against. Him being a bum, missing shots, and a few head scratching turnovers don’t mean anything’s changed. There is a reason they keep winning and it’s because he’s the Sun with planets orbiting. You could lose a planet or two but he’s irreplaceable. He’s just not in solar flare mode.

Because he is having a subpar season by his standards while Jokic and Embiid are simultaneously play out of their absolute minds

Subpar season by Steph's standards is still better than MVP Nash. It only goes to show that Steph should have been winning more MVPs in previous years.

I’ll just say that as a BIG pro-Steph guy, I vehemently disagree with the statement that Steph in his slump is better than Nash in MVP form.

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falcolombardi · Post #1664 » by **falcolombardi** » Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:49 pm

tonigh bucks vs nuggets game may potentially have a big effect in voters minds if giannis or jokic outplay each other

it shouldnt , but i have the feeling it will

must watch game

Ritzo · Post #1665 » by **Ritzo** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:29 am

WarriorGM wrote:
MrBigShot wrote:
moderndarwin wrote:Why isn’t it Steph?

He keeps leading his team to victories even without their second most impactful player being around.

He looks awful out there but his impact on the floor is still palpable and he’s the blueprint for the team to execute against. Him being a bum, missing shots, and a few head scratching turnovers don’t mean anything’s changed. There is a reason they keep winning and it’s because he’s the Sun with planets orbiting. You could lose a planet or two but he’s irreplaceable. He’s just not in solar flare mode.

Because he is having a subpar season by his standards while Jokic and Embiid are simultaneously play out of their absolute minds

Subpar season by Steph's standards is still better than MVP Nash. It only goes to show that Steph should have been winning more MVPs in previous years.

Come on, really?
2020-2021 Donovan Mitchell almost had the exact same numbers (more efficient) than Curry this season and he didn't even got a single vote. The Jazz also had the best record in the league.

MrBigShot · Post #1666 » by **MrBigShot** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:38 am

WarriorGM wrote:
MrBigShot wrote:
moderndarwin wrote:Why isn’t it Steph?

He keeps leading his team to victories even without their second most impactful player being around.

He looks awful out there but his impact on the floor is still palpable and he’s the blueprint for the team to execute against. Him being a bum, missing shots, and a few head scratching turnovers don’t mean anything’s changed. There is a reason they keep winning and it’s because he’s the Sun with planets orbiting. You could lose a planet or two but he’s irreplaceable. He’s just not in solar flare mode.

Because he is having a subpar season by his standards while Jokic and Embiid are simultaneously play out of their absolute minds

Subpar season by Steph's standards is still better than MVP Nash. It only goes to show that Steph should have been winning more MVPs in previous years.

I don't agree with this but that's not really relevant. Steph is competing against other players in 2022. What year should he have won it that he didn't? Pretty much every MVP since Steph won his last one has been very well deserved.

GSP · Post #1667 » by **GSP** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:47 am

Its Embiid, Jokic and then everyone else

VanWest82 · Post #1668 » by **VanWest82** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:12 am

Jokic > Giannis as of today

AleksandarN · Post #1669 » by **AleksandarN** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:17 am

This is Jokic's stats tonight.

18pts 9 rebounds 15 assists.

He did not play in the fourth nor did he stat pad. Next time someone tries to compare Russel's trouble doubles to Jokic's

Wolfgang630 · Post #1670 » by **Wolfgang630** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:39 am

It’s only Embiid and Joker. And people keep going on about record. The Sixers have only won 2 more games. That’s negligible. And here the Nuggets completely blew out Giannis and the Bucks.

brettski · Post #1671 » by **brettski** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:50 am

Jokic and Giannis both put up big stat lines today.
Jokic's was way bigger though and brought the win (along with ridiculous 3 point shooting - which does help with the assists).

To put it simply (from a Bucks fan) Jokic is the MVP right now and is a cut above everyone else.

Ballerhogger · Post #1672 » by **Ballerhogger** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:37 am

Jokic found other ways to be amazing besides scoring . 15 ast in blowout win against the champs . MVP hands down. Embiid doesn’t do what Jokic can do.

Ballerhogger · Post #1673 » by **Ballerhogger** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:38 am

AleksandarN wrote:This is Jokic's stats tonight.

18pts 9 rebounds 15 assists.

He did not play in the fourth nor did he stat pad. Next time someone tries to compare Russel's trouble doubles to Jokic's

Who’s doing that :lol:

GeorgeSears · Post #1674 » by **GeorgeSears** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:50 am

Jokic with a casual 18-15-9.

At this point it should be a three horse race between Giannis, Jokic and Embiid. Whether it will be remains to be seen.

Mickey8 · Post #1675 » by **Mickey8** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:51 am

I think Chris Paul should be in the discussion , I don't think he leads the race but he should be mentioned as the candidate.

AleksandarN · Post #1676 » by **AleksandarN** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:55 am

Read on Twitter

Johnny Firpo · Post #1677 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:57 am

Mickey8 wrote:I think Chris Paul should be in the discussion , I don't think he leads the race but he should be mentioned as the candidate.

Sure, in the honorable mention category, why not. But he cannot get close to winning this thing with his current averages, doesn't matter if the Suns are the best team. And Booker cannot even make the honorable mention category, because we still think CP3 is their MVP. It is what it is, and what this is, might be unfair.

scrabbarista · Post #1678 » by **scrabbarista** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:12 am

Mickey8 wrote:I think Chris Paul should be in the discussion , I don't think he leads the race but he should be mentioned as the candidate.

It seems like Jokic, gap, Embiid and Antetokounmpo, gap, and then whoever you want to me. CP3 in the fourth spot is probably as good a pick as any. If Jokic keeps lapping the field statistically, though - even beating the historical field, frankly - then the Suns could win 74 games and I still wouldn't vote for Paul's 14 ppg and 10 apg for MVP. But yes, there is a world in which I'd vote Paul. An injury to Jokic, Embiid and Antetokounmpo fall off or miss games/Sixers nor Bucks get HCA in the First Round, and the Suns win 69 or 70 games minimum, and I'd consider it. A lot would have to go right for Paul, but I'm sayin' there's a chance. He probably should've gotten the one Kobe won (nobody @ me), so I'd be fine if it was like 90% earned and 10% a lifetime achievement award. But as of right now the only choice is Jokic.

SpreeS · Post #1679 » by **SpreeS** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:22 am

Jokic is clear leader to get mvp

GeorgeSears · Post #1680 » by **GeorgeSears** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:58 am

Mickey8 wrote:I think Chris Paul should be in the discussion , I don't think he leads the race but he should be mentioned as the candidate.

He can have a seat at the table.

It's tricky with choosing a Suns player because the Suns as a team are clearly better than the sum of their parts. You wouldn't choose any of those players to build around, but as a unit they work.

Who is the MVP so far? (Poll Re-set 1/14/22)