2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[BoatsNZones]

Jokic just took 9 shots and absolutely embarrassed Giannis and the Bucks on their home floor. Yes, he’s the MVP and “it is not close”.

Some of his stats are inflated massively due to their rotations, but nobody can stop this dude. He hits you from every angle. The Nuggets would win the ship this season if MPJ ad Murray were healthy.

All advanced stats have him #1 for a reason. He’s the best and most dominant player in the league. Embiid - healthy or otherwise / has nowhere near his vision, and that is everything. Curry is the only player who elevates players better than Jokic, and Jokic has been better individually.

[eyeatoma]

Y'all keep saying Jokic is the leader for MVP. However betting Odds has Embiid as the favorite. They are much better at predicting this stuff than you guys.

Its still a long season but you guys need to take everything into consideration.

1 Record - Embiid
2. Stats - Wash
3. Narrative - Embiid
4. Health - TBD but right now Embiid is fine
5. Voter fatigue - Jokic seems to have more right now. They already awarded him an MVP once without hitting 1st place. They're not going to do it twice, as much as you all think he deserves it, it just doesn't work that way.

[BoatsNZones]

Y'all keep saying Jokic is the leader for MVP. However betting Odds has Embiid as the favorite. They are much better at predicting this stuff than you guys.

Its still a long season but you guys need to take everything into consideration.

1 Record - Embiid
2. Stats - Wash
3. Narrative - Embiid
4. Health - TBD but right now Embiid is fine
5. Voter fatigue - Jokic seems to have more right now. They already awarded him an MVP once without hitting 1st place. They're not going to do it twice, as much as you all think he deserves it, it just doesn't work that way.

Lol.

Embiid has been the betting favorite for about 3 days. It has been Curry all season.

Embiid stats being a “wash” re Jokic is a joke and you know it. But let’s hear your argument?

Voter fatigue? Yes, they don’t want to give a b2b unless they see post season dominance, true. But Embiid has no post season resume to speak of. So he’s out there as well.

The best case against Jokic is that the media does not like him.

Narrative Embiid? No. Jokic lost his #2 and #3.

Jokic likely won’t win. But he’s very easily the MVP, and and Embiid is not #2.

[Doctor MJ]

Y'all keep saying Jokic is the leader for MVP. However betting Odds has Embiid as the favorite. They are much better at predicting this stuff than you guys.

Its still a long season but you guys need to take everything into consideration.

1 Record - Embiid
2. Stats - Wash
3. Narrative - Embiid
4. Health - TBD but right now Embiid is fine
5. Voter fatigue - Jokic seems to have more right now. They already awarded him an MVP once without hitting 1st place. They're not going to do it twice, as much as you all think he deserves it, it just doesn't work that way.

I think most of us aren't focused on predicting as much as we are just giving our vote at the moment. I'll certainly agree that Denver having a poor team record is going to really hurt Jokic's candidacy when all is said and done, and you're not wrong that the voter/narrative winds are blowing more in Embiid's direction than Jokic's.

[falcolombardi]

Jokic just took 9 shots and absolutely embarrassed Giannis and the Bucks on their home floor. Yes, he’s the MVP and “it is not close”.

Some of his stats are inflated massively due to their rotations, but nobody can stop this dude. He hits you from every angle. The Nuggets would win the ship this season if MPJ ad Murray were healthy.

All advanced stats have him #1 for a reason. He’s the best and most dominant player in the league. Embiid - healthy or otherwise / has nowhere near his vision, and that is everything. Curry is the only player who elevates players better than Jokic, and Jokic has been better individually.

while i think jokic has been better than giannis this season i would advice against extrspolsting so much from "nuggets destroy bucks" to " jokic humillanted giannis"

just like i would question anyone who thinks that chris Paul humillanted jokic in playoffs

one team destroying another team is not the same as one team star destroying the other team star

jokic tonight, while excelent, was not even a particularly great game for him, it was the nuggets as a whole that played their minds out and the bucks as a whole sans maybe giannis who struggled

jokic arguably may have still outplayed giannis today but not to such a Extreme degree

[JDR720]

The only sensible scenario that Jokic doesn't win MVP is the media, who vote for it, do not want him to. He isn't as marketable and doesn't generate ratings like Embiid or Steph winning would. Giannis too.

Steph and to a lesser degree Giannis are media darlings, and Embiid benefits from the drama of carrying the team without Ben Simmons. Meanwhile, Jokic is having a historic season without his #2 and #3 best players, yet nobody really cares.

Team record isn't going to be very relevant. The Bucks, 76ers and Denver are all within 2 games of each other. Morant is probably a darkhorse candidate if Memphis keeps it up too. Steph is still going to finish top 5, regardless of his down season too.

[Hobo4President]

Y'all keep saying Jokic is the leader for MVP. However betting Odds has Embiid as the favorite.They are much better at predicting this stuff than you guys.

Its still a long season but you guys need to take everything into consideration.

1 Record - Embiid
2. Stats - Wash
3. Narrative - Embiid
4. Health - TBD but right now Embiid is fine
5. Voter fatigue - Jokic seems to have more right now. They already awarded him an MVP once without hitting 1st place. They're not going to do it twice, as much as you all think he deserves it, it just doesn't work that way.

People are arguing why they think Jokic should be the MVP, not what the betting odds are or who will win MVP. Are you really such an Embiid stan it blinds you to basic comprehension?

[Dutchball97]

The Mavs and Jazz losing on a night where the Nuggets beat the Bucks is big for Jokic' MVP case. With the stats he's putting up he'll probably get a couple of votes regardless of his team record but the better the team, the better his chances. The Nuggets are already up to the 5th seed and 4th is in sight, especially with the Jazz struggling without Gobert. The narrative difference between a 6 seed sitting around .500 and a 4/5 seed approaching .600 is pretty significant.

How close the betting odds are between Giannis, Curry, Embiid and Jokic shows there has yet to emerge a clear favorite and depending how the rest of the season goes any of them could end up winning the award. If I had to vote right now though I'd have a hard time going against Jokic.

[eyeatoma]

Y'all keep saying Jokic is the leader for MVP. However betting Odds has Embiid as the favorite. They are much better at predicting this stuff than you guys.

Its still a long season but you guys need to take everything into consideration.

1 Record - Embiid
2. Stats - Wash
3. Narrative - Embiid
4. Health - TBD but right now Embiid is fine
5. Voter fatigue - Jokic seems to have more right now. They already awarded him an MVP once without hitting 1st place. They're not going to do it twice, as much as you all think he deserves it, it just doesn't work that way.

Lol.

Embiid has been the betting favorite for about 3 days. It has been Curry all season.

Embiid stats being a “wash” re Jokic is a joke and you know it. But let’s hear your argument?

Voter fatigue? Yes, they don’t want to give a b2b unless they see post season dominance, true. But Embiid has no post season resume to speak of. So he’s out there as well.

The best case against Jokic is that the media does not like him.

Narrative Embiid? No. Jokic lost his #2 and #3.

Jokic likely won’t win. But he’s very easily the MVP, and and Embiid is not #2.

Spoken like a true stan.

Sure in advanced stats Jokic is superior, but Embiid is .1 pts from being the scoring leader, and is having an incredible season. To say it's not close is homerism personified. Notice how I didn't say either was winning stats.

[eyeatoma]

Y'all keep saying Jokic is the leader for MVP. However betting Odds has Embiid as the favorite.They are much better at predicting this stuff than you guys.

Its still a long season but you guys need to take everything into consideration.

1 Record - Embiid
2. Stats - Wash
3. Narrative - Embiid
4. Health - TBD but right now Embiid is fine
5. Voter fatigue - Jokic seems to have more right now. They already awarded him an MVP once without hitting 1st place. They're not going to do it twice, as much as you all think he deserves it, it just doesn't work that way.

People are arguing why they think Jokic should be the MVP, not what the betting odds are or who will win MVP. Are you really such an Embiid stan it blinds you to basic comprehension?

As I mentioned the betting odds tend to predict this pretty well. For people to say that it is Jokic's to lose was pretty amusing.

[spanishninja]

I don't care who wins as long as it isn't Steph.

[feyki]

I don't get the reason why Embiid is over Giannis. Embiid is not having better impact or stats and his team are not better than Bucks. Why he is over Giannis?

Jokic's case is simple, his team only %5 W/L rate behind Bucks and has much better impact and numbers.

[AleksandarN]

Y'all keep saying Jokic is the leader for MVP. However betting Odds has Embiid as the favorite.They are much better at predicting this stuff than you guys.

Its still a long season but you guys need to take everything into consideration.

1 Record - Embiid
2. Stats - Wash
3. Narrative - Embiid
4. Health - TBD but right now Embiid is fine
5. Voter fatigue - Jokic seems to have more right now. They already awarded him an MVP once without hitting 1st place. They're not going to do it twice, as much as you all think he deserves it, it just doesn't work that way.

People are arguing why they think Jokic should be the MVP, not what the betting odds are or who will win MVP. Are you really such an Embiid stan it blinds you to basic comprehension?

As I mentioned the betting odds tend to predict this pretty well. For people to say that it is Jokic's to lose was pretty amusing.

LOL Up untill like 4 days ago when Curry was the betting favorite did you agree then? So how can we seriously believe what you just wrote.

[_NoMas]

Big Jokic fan but I think it’s neck and neck between him and Embiid, whose having a monster season also. Jokic, with his ability to make even below average players look like competent NBA starters and Embiid, dragging the sixers to wins with his dominant scoring run. In years past you could probably use Embiids defence as the difference maker, but that’s not much of a factor this season, with Jokic’s huge improvement on that end and Embiid playing less defence due to his increased offensive workload. All to play for, team record and availability will surely play a part, and a Steph run of form too - as I get the sense the media are dying to give him the award this year.

[Statlanta]

I don't get the reason why Embiid is over Giannis. Embiid is not having better impact or stats and his team are not better than Bucks. Why he is over Giannis?

Jokic's case is simple, his team only %5 W/L rate behind Bucks and has much better impact and numbers.

The Sixers have a better record than the Bucks. The Sixers also have the without Ben Simmons narrative that I think people are underrating.

Embiid is the only serious MVP contender without an MVP trophy. They could conceivably crown him here over the others just on that reason alone because the others(Antetokkounmpo, Curry, Jokic, James) have had better seasons on better teams and were rewarded for them.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Who's the DPOY thus far? What do the metrics say??

Draymond is #1 in D-EPM, and Rudy is #1 in D-RAPTOR and D-LEBRON.

[Doctor MJ]

I don't get the reason why Embiid is over Giannis. Embiid is not having better impact or stats and his team are not better than Bucks. Why he is over Giannis?

Jokic's case is simple, his team only %5 W/L rate behind Bucks and has much better impact and numbers.

The Sixers have a better record than the Bucks. The Sixers also have the without Ben Simmons narrative that I think people are underrating.

Embiid is the only serious MVP contender without an MVP trophy. They could conceivably crown him here over the others just on that reason alone because the others(Antetokkounmpo, Curry, Jokic, James) have had better seasons on better teams and were rewarded for them.

That last paragraph is true and significant.

People - correctly - feel like Embiid proved himself an MVP level player last year, and so there’s a perceived accolade debt there like there is not for the other candidates.

I absolutely see him as the front runner at this point even if I happen to think Jokic has been even better.


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[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Jokic just took 9 shots and absolutely embarrassed Giannis and the Bucks on their home floor. Yes, he’s the MVP and “it is not close”.

Some of his stats are inflated massively due to their rotations, but nobody can stop this dude. He hits you from every angle. The Nuggets would win the ship this season if MPJ ad Murray were healthy.

All advanced stats have him #1 for a reason. He’s the best and most dominant player in the league. Embiid - healthy or otherwise / has nowhere near his vision, and that is everything. Curry is the only player who elevates players better than Jokic, and Jokic has been better individually.

while i think jokic has been better than giannis this season i would advice against extrspolsting so much from "nuggets destroy bucks" to " jokic humillanted giannis"

just like i would question anyone who thinks that chris Paul humillanted jokic in playoffs

one team destroying another team is not the same as one team star destroying the other team star

jokic tonight, while excelent, was not even a particularly great game for him, it was the nuggets as a whole that played their minds out and the bucks as a whole sans maybe giannis who struggled

jokic arguably may have still outplayed giannis today but not to such a Extreme degree

I think it was huge for Jokic but it isn't like Giannis played bad until it was over. He started like 7 of 12 but then jacked up 3s at the end trying to lazily come back down big. Nuggets were just on fire. Gordon and Rivers were hitting step back jumpers. They just aren't those kind of players.

Right now, I have Jokic and Embiid neck and neck but still pretty damn year. We still have more than a 1/3rd of the season. Bucks could easily be the 1 seed when all is said and done. His stats aren't too far behind if he picks it up or Jokic goes into a slump.

[Mickey8]

Jokic just took 9 shots and absolutely embarrassed Giannis and the Bucks on their home floor. Yes, he’s the MVP and “it is not close”.

Some of his stats are inflated massively due to their rotations, but nobody can stop this dude. He hits you from every angle. The Nuggets would win the ship this season if MPJ ad Murray were healthy.

All advanced stats have him #1 for a reason. He’s the best and most dominant player in the league. Embiid - healthy or otherwise / has nowhere near his vision, and that is everything. Curry is the only player who elevates players better than Jokic, and Jokic has been better individually.

while i think jokic has been better than giannis this season i would advice against extrspolsting so much from "nuggets destroy bucks" to " jokic humillanted giannis"

just like i would question anyone who thinks that chris Paul humillanted jokic in playoffs

one team destroying another team is not the same as one team star destroying the other team star

jokic tonight, while excelent, was not even a particularly great game for him, it was the nuggets as a whole that played their minds out and the bucks as a whole sans maybe giannis who struggled

jokic arguably may have still outplayed giannis today but not to such a Extreme degree

I think he pretty much controlled the game , whenever he was on the floor, 15 the most pure assists you will ever see, all the open shots and he was pretty good on the defense, he could have scored more points but his teammates were hitting the shots so he didn't force it much. Also he would get swarmed by the Bucks defenders every time he would try to post up, lots of hockey assists for him in this game too.

[Dutchball97]

Who's the DPOY thus far? What do the metrics say??

Draymond is #1 in D-EPM, and Rudy is #1 in D-RAPTOR and D-LEBRON.

Draymond also has the highest individual defensive rating in the league but the main thing here to me is the Warriors being the best defensive team in the league, while the Jazz are just average on the defensive end. Allen and Mobley are also both playing at a very high level on defense with the Cavs currently being the third best defense in the league but they might split votes.